larger stove in fin basement or smaller on main level? HELP!!

[TimTheWiner]

So I just bought a house 3 months ago with electric heat as primary source. First bill was $425, last two were $725. To hell with this. My old electric bill was $100/month and oil was no more than $1500 during the winter. The house is a 1,040 sq ft single level ranch with a large central chimney. Living room has a corner wood fireplace. Basement is 800 finished sq feet abnd has a woodstove insert. I would like to replace the wood stove insert with a Quadrafire Vernon AE insert that I found used for $2,700 and is apparently good for 3,600 sq ft (54,000 btu), however I am worried about the heat getting to the upstairs main level (especially bedrooms). There is a 12"x16" duct above the wood stove which comes out in the living room floor and has a fan built into it. Only other option is to remove the corner fireplace in the living room and close the right side with bricks, then I could fit a much smaller unit (like the Castile or Harman Empress). Only thing is this would leave the basement unheated which we do use a lot for movies/recreation. I don't want to use the electric baseboard heaters AT ALL. Any recommendations?? I also was thinking of using a room-to-room air excange like the tjernlund ones to move heat to the bedrooms. I'm afraid to spend the $$ on he basement insert and then find the upstairs, especially bedrooms, too cold. Thanks for the input.

 

[Mt Bob]

Great to have you here,and lots of people to help,but lets go to the basics,you said single level ranch,and then mentioned basement??And from your description of flues in different areas,maybe you should draw a picture and post.If you want to do a good test,go buy a 30k electric space heater,run it and move around house and see what the results are,as wood/pellet stoves are space heaters.Or spend some more time with the search bar as there is years worth of info,why wait for answers.

 

[TimTheWiner]

I meant to post a few pics earier, although I don't know how much they will help. By single level, I mean that it is one main living level with a nearly fully finished basement. The large chimney is central in the house with the flue for the wood stove centered in the chimney and the flue for the corner fireplace in the living room is on the right side of the chimney. You can see the vent from the basement to the living room in the pics below..

 

[Johnny_Fiv3]

Omg that duct...don't even get us started...

 

[xSpecBx]

I'm able to heat my 2400 sq ft cape with a quadrafire CB 1200i insert in a centrally located fireplace on the first floor. My hot water is oil fired so that keeps the finished basement warm enough as that fires the boiler up occasionally to make hot water (doesn't sound like you have this available). In your case I see the potential for 1 of 2 issues. If you put the big stove in the basement there is no guarantee that the heat will make it upstairs. The other problem is that if you put a smaller insert in the upstairs fireplace the basement will most likely be cold.

Any thought of putting in two smaller stoves? One for the basement and another for upstairs? This would keep the house pretty even temperature wise and you can leave the basement stove turned down for when you're no using the space.

 

[bags]

Floor plan drawings would be a great help. What you are wanting to do can be done but need more info. I feel your pain on the electric heating bills. I retired those years ago. A bunch of cash for a chilly house. There are people here heating the whole house from the basement but it is harder to do. How compartmentalized is your floor plan. What kind of opening is coming up from the basement?

Where do you really spend the most time in your place? It's newer so you may not know yet..... Can you do a rough sketch of your floor plan and post it with more details. How are your windows, doors, insulation, etc

 

[Peterfield]

The consensus of opinion when this question gets asked is to install the stove in the main living area of the home where you will spend the most time. With those electricity rates, you could put a moderately-sized stove in the main living area and a smaller pellet stove in the basement to use as necessary. The money you save on electricity will pay you back for those purchases.

 

[Babaganoosh]

Where do you spend most time?

I'd put a wood stove on the first floor and a pellet stove/insert in the basement with a thermostat. I'd assume you wouldn't want to lug wood thru the house into the basement and feeding two stoves can be a hassle.

 

[bags]

$2,700 for a used stove might be a bit steep on price also. Have you looked around at options. That type of cash gets you into many new stoves. Something else to think about. Investing three grand is a chunk and could buy you two nice used stoves possibly.

 

[TStark]

I would consider the opposite.
Pellet upstairs that can be throttled more accurately in the main living spaces for more consistent temperatures.
Fire the wood stove downstairs on weekends, and for high load nights during cold snaps, and the woodburner is excellent emergency heat.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Welcome

Trying to get heat up from a basement is problematic, although not impossible it can be hard to get good results.

I feel your pain with the electric heat, as our home has full electric.

WE have 3 pellet stoves on the main floor of 2300 ++ feet

I personally would look seriously at one large stove or two small ones on the main floor

$2700 is pretty steep.

I paid $200 each for two used Whitfields and have done little in the way of NEEDED repairs

Post some pix of the main floor layout and we can get a good idea where the stove/s might serve you well.

My feelings on two small stoves are simple,.

One fails in the dead of winter, YOUR FOULED, but if there are two, you can limp along till you can effect repairs.

Fail safe sort of.

Snowy

 

[bogieb]

I tried a big stove in the basement (650 sq/ft), which on paper, at 60k btu, should have easily heated the 950 sq/ft upstairs. It didn't work as well as I would have liked as the bedrooms were very cold (40's-50's) when the living area upstairs was in the 60's and the unfinished basement was in the 80's. However, my bedrooms are over the garage, so that supplies a lot of cold air thru the floor.

I should have gone with my first thought of putting in two smaller stoves instead. This year I put in a stove upstairs (30k btu), and now everything is nice and warm, the big stove just mostly idles along (which is fine, but not the most efficient use of it). But, I am glad I have two stoves as when I shut one down for cleaning, it doesn't get to be freezing in the house since the other one is still doing its thing.

Unfortunately, each house is different, air flows are different so if you can test out by using space heater in the basement first (as Bob Bare suggested), that would tell you a lot and help you make the decision.

 

[TimTheWiner]

Thanks for the replies. I work nights, so just getting to see this. Anyhow, the basement does see more use than most of the house, but a lot of that has to do with the kitchen and living room being 50°F. We do however use the basement a lot because it has the TV (didn't have time to mount the other one to the brick fireplace in the living room yet). Plus this is were we keep a lot of toys for our 18 month old and gives him a lot of room to run around and play with our beagle (who is not allowed on the main living level, at least while we're away from home or asleep, because she did thousands in damage peeing on carpets, scratching furniture etc in our old house). Sorry, the ADD makes me tend to run on with sentences, lol. I don't see using the main level living room much more than formally or here and there, but still early to say for sure. The unfortunate thing is we had new flooring and subflooring put in every single room in the house before we moved in and it might've been a great opportunity to install some floor vents, had I known. I'll get a sketch up shortly. The toughest thing about a main level pellet insert (which I would prefer) is that I would have to close off the right side of the fireplace so that opening is only in the front. Even then, the surround piece might overhang the right edge by a couple inches, unless I get some thicker stone veneer when I plan to reface it down the road to make it appear flush. A freestanding unit isn't really an option without deleting furniture.

 

[TimTheWiner]

Well, I ended up spending WAY too much time on this and a lot of unnecessary detail, but it's all there.

 

[bags]

Yes you did but they are nice! LOL! Looks like a tough one to do from the basement with one stove. Your stairs are out of the way isolated into a semi separated corner with little for air flow even if doors and stuff are always left open.

Hard to say what the vent and fan will let happen distributing heat on the main floor. I would be more tempted to go with two stoves here. Just my hunch. You could start off with one down stairs since it seems to be more of a priority with the TV and kid playing and see how it does.

Just keep in mind many have problems with getting heat upstairs when in theory it rises right up naturally.

 

[TimTheWiner]

Not quite sure why it resized this image as I made it 1024 pixels wide. Anyhow, you guys get the drift. I am still pretty stuck. I hate to spend the $$ on the basement stove and not have enough $$ left for another one if it isn't doing anything for the upstairs, but as you mentioned we do spend a lot of time in the basement and my wife probably has the 2,000+ watt wall heater running at least 10-12 hours a day. Sheeeyyyiiitttt.

 

[TimTheWiner]

Should I be leary of a used unit too? My uncle said buy new, but he doesn't have a pellet stove either. I can't swing $4,800 for a larger unit for the basement which is why the same model 4 years old for $2,700 seemed attractive, but then again no one purchased it the 8 days it was on ebay. Another nice looking Castile (1 year old) on Craigslist for $1,950 but no email reply.

 

[bags]

Do tons or research here. Use the search bar with your questions and topics. There is oodles of info here. Good used stoves can be had for good prices. You have to know what you are looking at and problems to look for on various models. Spend a lot of time here.

Jumping in blind will only get you burnt. If you find a used stove you should see it run and operate first. I found a good deal for $1,600. Others have done better than that here. You might just have to take it on the chin for a few and pay the electric man.

Good used stoves do pop up but there is a risk if you don't do your homework and know what is what. If you find something post a thread and ask here. many will tell you the ins and outs and if it's a good deal.

 

[Big papa]

$2,700 for a used stove might be a bit steep on price also. Have you looked around at options. That type of cash gets you into many new stoves. Something else to think about. Investing three grand is a chunk and could buy you two nice used stoves possibly.

A brand new P43 is $2979 before rebates and install.a brand new P61 is $3600 before rebates and install.would definitely look at new before spending the $2700 on used

 

[Polar Bear]

Buy an Englander if you're on a budget.

 

[Big papa]

Buy an Englander if you're on a budget.

No need for a stove war here, was just using for example what could be purchased new!!for around the same price. These stoves would come with a warranty from harman and dealer help if needed. So the few dollar more for new would be worth it.

 

[Polar Bear]

No need for a stove war here, was just using for example what could be purchased new!!for around the same price. These stoves would come with a warranty from harman and dealer help if needed. So the few dollar more for new would be worth it.

No, no...its all good. Just tossing it out there.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

I would be looking at the two lower corners (living room)

Corners are sweet spots for stoves.
Another spot is on the wall by the door that goes to the covered porch.

Easy direct vent application too.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I heat a 3000 SF 3 story home from the basement with one 3 CU Ft wood stove on a part time basis. I have a floor vent going up into a large living room that i use a high velocity fan on.
Without the fan it wont work, but with it my basement is 85 deg and the living room above is 75 deg. Bedrooms on the next level up are about 68-70

 

[Rossco]

Wow at that shroud.

Gonna be real difficult to get heat upstairs but its possible.

You would need to cook the basement out and the heat will make it up stairs (I heat 1200ft from a semi insulated basement)

Only alternative is to relocate the stairs.