Learning, learning, learning...

[kathyfitz]

I've had my new stove for about a week and a half, did the paint cure burns, started learning how to work things out, had a heat wave and then went out of town. I came home to a cold house and am ready to get back to the process of learning. And I have come up with a few questions so far.

I am trying to figure out the cycle burning. From what I have learned, it is definitely how I want to go. I have got a good feel for the top down start - that is awesome! I get the stove hot and can gradually close it down some while the bottom layer of splits burn to build the coal bed. Add more wood and then gradually close it down again. I have seen some nice secondary burns and feel rather proud of myself for getting something right. I haven't had too many fires where I load wood more than once or twice, but we are getting there.

I understand that there is an ideal range of temperatures to run the stove in - I don't have a flue thermometer yet, but am using an IR on the stove top. As the wood burns down to coals, the stove cools off considerably. It seems that there is still too many coals to add more wood, but at this stage should I open the primary air up again to try to increase the temp? Or just let it do it's thing until time for more wood?

Is there an ideal time/temp to add more wood?

I know there was at least one more.... I think I will just blame the time change for the brain fade, gets me twice a year, every year!

 

[begreen]

Yes, when at that low coaling stage, rake the coals forward so that they are more front and center, open up the air and extract a bit more heat from them. But don't totally burn them out if you want to restart from these coals. Leave enough for an easy restart.

 

[Jags]

Some rules of thumb, but not gospel, as each stove can differ a little:

Most stoves will want to stay south of 650F on the stove top for typical "run" temps.

The reload cycle for each stove may differ in timing (size, draft, wood all effect this), but reloading on a burned down, yet hot coal bed is where I would start.

As BG stated - to burn down a coal bed, rake them forward with full air - a couple of small splits may be added at this time to help with a "higher" burn temp and can speed up the coal burn and yield better heat output.

And welcome to the forum

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Katy, congratulations on the stove, the trip and the return home.

Please remember that most information you get on this will be general information. Therefore I will give just a little bit of different information; take is however you wish.

You learned top-down fire starting; that is good....mostly.

One thing I have never quite figured out is why on these top-down fires people always wait until they have nothing but coals! Shoot, once the fire gets going is many times when I add another small split or two. Of course that can depend upon how much wood you put in at the start. On the big Vanessa video people seem so high on, they add wood when there is not much at all in the bottom of the stove! Why not before it gets down that low? If you are starting with no coals, you won't end up with much either. So, add some wood while you still have some flames.

Definitely for this time of the year, the correct way to determine when to add more wood to the fire is when the house is not warm enough. Do not worry about taking your stove clear up to 600 degrees or more as you probably do not need nor want it that hot in the house just yet. It will roast you out.

Do get into the habit so that when the stove is down, or almost down to nothing but coals your draft should be full open. We like to open the draft full just before it is all coals. Do not worry yourself about losing hot air up the chimney because if you watch the flue temperature, it probably won't raise any or enough to even mention....but it will help to burn down the coals. You will appreciate this when the air turns colder and you need the heat as you then do not want to worry that you have too many coals and can't get enough wood in the firebox.


The most ideal time to add wood to the firebox is when your body says, "Hey! I want some more heat!"

When you think of that other question, put it on here. You no doubt will also come up with more than one other question.

 

[firefighterjake]

Random thoughts . . .

I've often found that my first top down fire puts out some heat . . . but it's when I do the reload for the second fire that I really tend to notice the heat . . . probably because the stove has been cooking for a while . . . and probably because the reload is where I can put some of my bigger wood on to the raked up coals and that big wood will warm things up nicely.

As to when should you add wood -- I do this generally when the coals are the size of grapefruits or softballs . . . but as Dennis stated . . . if you need the heat sooner rather than later there is nothing to say you can't add wood to the fire even when there are still some visible flames . . . and in fact I sometimes do this . . . especially if I may have some wood that may be semi-seasoned and marginal . . . the trick however is to do this when the fire is low and right at or close to being at the coaling stage . . . what you don't want to do is add wood when the fire is at the secondary combustion stage (you can see my thread on that issue!)

A flue thermometer might help you as well . . . I use my probe style flue thermometer often.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Perhaps I should have added that this morning when I put wood in the stove on top of some very light coals, I simply loaded it so that it will be set for several hours. No need to reopen that firebox door.

 

[kathyfitz]

Thanks for the input!!

I have either finally finished breaking in the stove, or just built up a good coal bed - probably both, but I can now get the stove temp to stay above 400 when it gets to cruising. It didn't work as well this morning, but I believe that was operator error. (Backed it down too early.) If I am understanding things correctly, I need to allow things to get good and hot before shutting down the air. I think I am a little tentative there, not wanting to let things get too hot.

So, new questions, I expect that the stove making some noises is normal, creaks or pings, but are there noises that would not be normal? It says in the operation manual, not to reload for a long burn if the secondary tubes or supports are glowing, and I've read the recent topic on how bad that can be, but is it normal for them to glow? The manual also says not to load up for a long burn on a "deep bed of hot coals". Now I know I want a bed of coals, but how would you define "deep"?

And I am pretty sure that none of these is the question I couldn't remember the other night.

 

[havermeyer]

Thanks for the input!!

I have either finally finished breaking in the stove, or just built up a good coal bed - probably both, but I can now get the stove temp to stay above 400 when it gets to cruising. It didn't work as well this morning, but I believe that was operator error. (Backed it down too early.) If I am understanding things correctly, I need to allow things to get good and hot before shutting down the air. I think I am a little tentative there, not wanting to let things get too hot.

So, new questions, I expect that the stove making some noises is normal, creaks or pings, but are there noises that would not be normal? It says in the operation manual, not to reload for a long burn if the secondary tubes or supports are glowing, and I've read the recent topic on how bad that can be, but is it normal for them to glow? The manual also says not to load up for a long burn on a "deep bed of hot coals". Now I know I want a bed of coals, but how would you define "deep"?

And I am pretty sure that none of these is the question I couldn't remember the other night.

I recently got my secondary air tubes to glow a soft red... I kinda freaked out and jumped on the forum to see if that was normal... and yeah, it's fine... as long as they are not glowing hot white, it's normal.

As for when to reload, I've been using firefighterjake's advice - when the coals are the size of grapefruits, I'll reload the stove. Seems like the wood catches pretty good at that point.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Kathy, as to what is a good bed of coals or too much or too little is really difficult to explain and is not really always the same because of the fuel you put in the stove. Even if you put in the wood from the same tree in different loads, it can react differently. Naturally the moisture content of the wood will vary in different woods and if you have more moisture then a bit more of a coal bed would be nice because it takes longer to establish the fire. You will gradually learn what is about right for your situation.

I would like to comment though on your statement about getting things really hot before dialing down the draft. Yes, things need to get hot, but there is a point where you can get things too hot too!

 

[NH_Wood]

Random thoughts . . .

I've often found that my first top down fire puts out some heat . . . but it's when I do the reload for the second fire that I really tend to notice the heat . . . probably because the stove has been cooking for a while . . . and probably because the reload is where I can put some of my bigger wood on to the raked up coals and that big wood will warm things up nicely.

As to when should you add wood -- I do this generally when the coals are the size of grapefruits or softballs . . . but as Dennis stated . . . if you need the heat sooner rather than later there is nothing to say you can't add wood to the fire even when there are still some visible flames . . . and in fact I sometimes do this . . . especially if I may have some wood that may be semi-seasoned and marginal . . . the trick however is to do this when the fire is low and right at or close to being at the coaling stage . . . what you don't want to do is add wood when the fire is at the secondary combustion stage (you can see my thread on that issue!)

A flue thermometer might help you as well . . . I use my probe style flue thermometer often.

Jake - them's some big coals, eh? I think most of my splits aren't a whole lot larger (wider) than grapefruits. Cheers!

 

[kathyfitz]

I would like to comment though on your statement about getting things really hot before dialing down the draft. Yes, things need to get hot, but there is a point where you can get things too hot too!

That is the balance I am trying to learn. So far, I am erring on the side of not hot enough. While that feels safer while I've got it going, it leads to concerns about not burning cleanly and getting creosote buildup and future problems. Not to mention that when I do that, I am always fussing with it trying to find the balance again. hh:

 

[agartner]

The only way to learn is to burn. If you think you throttled back early, then wait a bit longer on your next burn cycle to throttle back down. Just make small adjustments each burn cycle and remember what you did and when - this is where a stovetop thermometer helps because it gives you a reference point as to when you made an adjustment. As you learn your particular stove you should find yourself "fussing" with it less and less over time Just keep in mind, wood burning has a *lot* of variables- obviously the stove and install, but also the wood, outside temperature, and barometric pressure all have a say in your burn, so what works really well today may not necessarily work as well tomorrow.

 

[OhioBurner©]

Jake - them's some big coals, eh? I think most of my splits aren't a whole lot larger (wider) than grapefruits. Cheers!

Thats what I was thinking lol. I might have mispercieved what 'coals' are, when I think of coals I think the size of the gravel in my driveway. If memory serves that #57 gravel, little smaller than ping pong ball.

 

[Cearbhaill]

IMO you're not going to figure it all completely out by reading what to do and doing it- you have to live with the thing for a while and learn its tendencies.
It took me a good full season to get my routine down and to feel as if I was running efficiently with as little tweaking as possible. I went into my second season feeling like I knew what I was doing only to learn that I didn't know as much as I thought I did and that different wood can make a tremendous difference. As time passes your errors will be less and less spectacular- in other words you will level out and develop a better feel for what needs to happen when. But those spectacular errors are where learning takes place so don't be afraid to let it get hotter before shutting the air or go longer before adding wood. Experiment within the bounds of safety and you'll find what works best for you, your setup, and your wood.

For me personally I do use a thermometer, but more to mark set points and observe movement than to obsess over specific numbers. I add wood when my blower is fixing to shut off (why yes, I am prescient), and I close the air when my fire reaches observable "conflagration" levels. If it backs off too quickly I open it a bit. Not really a quantifiable thing, but works for me. Just pay attention and try to connect dots as far as fire behavior and outside temperatures, wind conditions, even barometric pressure- when something odd happens run through everything in your head and your judgment will assimilate it and you'll do better next time.
And as long as you keep doing it better each time and not worse, well then you are doing it right.

 

[firefighterjake]

Thanks for the input!!

I have either finally finished breaking in the stove, or just built up a good coal bed - probably both, but I can now get the stove temp to stay above 400 when it gets to cruising. It didn't work as well this morning, but I believe that was operator error. (Backed it down too early.) If I am understanding things correctly, I need to allow things to get good and hot before shutting down the air. I think I am a little tentative there, not wanting to let things get too hot. You are correct . . . things really need to be quite hot for a good amount of time before you can start shutting down the air . . . and then do so in steps . . . shutting it a quarter mark at a time.


So, new questions, I expect that the stove making some noises is normal, creaks or pings, but are there noises that would not be normal? Yes . . . if the stove says "Feed me!", belches or sounds like an atomic bomb has gone off it may not be considered a normal sound . . . also if you hear it snoring loudly at night or you hear the twittering of a bird . . . also not normal. It says in the operation manual, not to reload for a long burn if the secondary tubes or supports are glowing, and I've read the recent topic on how bad that can be, but is it normal for them to glow? I've never seen mine glow, but other folks have . . . and yes . . . heed your manual . . . or risk the consequences . . . perhaps my thread is the one you read about the perils of putting wood on a fire when the secondaries are in full bloom. The manual also says not to load up for a long burn on a "deep bed of hot coals". Now I know I want a bed of coals, but how would you define "deep"? Probably this definition is the same type of definition dreamed up by the PR guys who come up with burn time figures . . . I guess I would take this with a grain of salt . . . they probably are meaning that you should allow the coals to burn down more so you have more room in the firebox and get a longer burn time.
And I am pretty sure that none of these is the question I couldn't remember the other night. The answer to that question is 32.

 

[firefighterjake]

Random thoughts . . .

I've often found that my first top down fire puts out some heat . . . but it's when I do the reload for the second fire that I really tend to notice the heat . . . probably because the stove has been cooking for a while . . . and probably because the reload is where I can put some of my bigger wood on to the raked up coals and that big wood will warm things up nicely.

As to when should you add wood -- I do this generally when the coals are the size of grapefruits or softballs . . . but as Dennis stated . . . if you need the heat sooner rather than later there is nothing to say you can't add wood to the fire even when there are still some visible flames . . . and in fact I sometimes do this . . . especially if I may have some wood that may be semi-seasoned and marginal . . . the trick however is to do this when the fire is low and right at or close to being at the coaling stage . . . what you don't want to do is add wood when the fire is at the secondary combustion stage (you can see my thread on that issue!)

A flue thermometer might help you as well . . . I use my probe style flue thermometer often.

Jake - them's some big coals, eh? I think most of my splits aren't a whole lot larger (wider) than grapefruits. Cheers!

Good point . . . I should perhaps point out that you can go smaller . . . and in fact when it is still quite warm inside I do tend to wait a bit longer before reloading.

 

[kathyfitz]

Thank you Jake! I always enjoy a good laugh!! It isn't actually talking to me - yet. ;-) I do spend a lot of time alone, so you never know... :gulp:

I had a couple of really pretty fires going and was getting more and more comfortable with how things worked, but things have warmed up again this week and I haven't burned anything in about 24 hours. It looks like it will just be short, small fires this week just to take the chill off. (My house doesn't get any sun until the afternoon.) We do have a storm coming in this weekend and freezing temps at night, so I get to practice more then! I am so ready for winter! I know that sounds strange to those of you who live further north, but I grew up in the Pacific Northwest and this is as far north as I could get my hubby to go.