Letting someone cut off your land...

[EJL923]

My father in law has some land that he is going to let his friend take some wood out of. He usually buys his wood from this guy as well. He doesnt have time to cut and split it himself. His friend cutting said he would give him 1 cord for every 5 he took. To me, that doesnt seem like a good deal, but then again I'm not the one doing the work. I thought I've heard of 1 for every 3. So for people who have done this, what do you think the going rate is for letting people take your wood?

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I did that and we ended up settling on 4-1. I'd have done it only on 3-1 except that I would not allow them to skid the whole tree out into the field before cutting it up. I wanted the tops to stay in the woods. However, I would not do this again. The problems I had were that the timing was wrong. December should have found us with frozen ground. It wasn't. Their skidder was big but the tires were shot. This caused the skidder to do lots of spinning and now we have a big time mess with all the deep ruts. How deep? I tipped the atv over when I slid one side into one of the ruts.

In addition to the above, I learned really quick that if you enter into an agreement like this, you had best keep count of how much wood goes out! Yes, they did try to get away with taking extra wood. I caught them and at first they denied it. The very next day I faced them again and they admitted it so paid me in dollars for the extra wood. Had I not caught this, I would have lost even more. In addition, one of their crew, we are sure, took my old cant hook. Dang. Had to buy another one so that was a loss.

 

[peakbagger]

IMHO Unless the land is very small and full of junk wood or being cleared for development, it can be a real bad decision. A bad logging job can be worse than none at all. A lot of folks dont realize that a good straight hardwood log can sell for over $2,000 if its veneer grade, good hardwood sawlogs can sell for $100 to $300 dollars. Firewood is worth a couple of bucks a cord sitting in a heap at the log yards so you really dont want that veneer tree being cut and split into firewood. Most loggers would gladly pay you for a veneer log for a couple of bucks of firewood. Ideally, you want to leave the good trees with this potential and thin out the rest of the woods without hurting the good trees. Someone out for firewood who doesnt know any better might preferentially cut the good stuff as its nice and straight and easy to split and leave the low grade "weed" trees that are never going to be worth anything except for firewood. The good news is that down properly there could be 60 or 70 percent of the trees that need to be cut to help out the "good" trees and that increases the ultimate value of the land while supplying more than enouhg firewood.

The other issue is that if they cut at the wrong time of the year, using heavy equipment to harvest can really tear up the soil and if they happen to impact a wetland, the fines are pretty extensive and may fall in your father in laws lap. Mass has some very restrictive harvesting standards in place and proposed and once your father is getting "paid" for harvest they may apply.

Of course there is also liability issues if its a small operation. If someone get hurt cutting wood on your Father in laws land, unless the logger has the proper insurance, your FIL is liable.

At a minimum he should see if there is something like a cooperative extension forester or some other landowner assistance program in his area to discuss the pros and cons of logging so he walks into the deal well educated. In just a few hours a forester could pay for himself several times over by figuring out what should be cut. For a few more hours, they could mark the trees that should be cut and then if the logger is skilled with making sure they dont damage the good trees it may make sense. Of general note it is rarely if ever profitable to cut firewood only on a lot, the cost of equipment and labor is usually more than the wood is worth, so somehow there is additional profit being made and realistically, your father in law should get a piece of that profit. If the lot is too small, it may be worth walling through the woods and marking the base of the trees to be cut with a can of spray paint, it there isnt paint at the base, then they dont cut it.

 

[ramonbow]

I don't think i would take a deal for any less than 3 to 1, but that is just me. The exception would be if there was a lot of dead and/or downed material that would decay rapidly. I also would insist on marking the trees for removal myself or having a forester do it. I can imagine if I would let someone cut in our grove that they would be inclined to cut the mature canopy oaks first, then the walnut and ash and leave me with a woods full of saplings and boxelder trees. The wrong kind of cutting can ruin a woods in a hurry. You would also have to have a lot of confidence in the honesty of the guy removing the wood since it would be easy for him to "cheat" a little.

 

[Cascade Failure]

I SO misread the title and substituted "hand" for "land". Heck no!

Even reading it correctly, I probably wouldn't let someone cut on my land unless I had first hand knowledge of their work or it was a friend in need.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I should have added that about 75% of the trees I let them cut was soft maple. There was on fair sized elm, and some ash.

 

[Wood Duck]

If this is a good friend, then consider it a favor and be happy for any wood you end up getting. If not, I wouldn't touch this deal. You are likely to end up with damaged trees, torn up ground, and a mess of brush and tops where you don't want them. I don't see any big upside for your father, unless he is helping out a friend. If the guy wanted a cord or two, that would be one thing, but it seems like he is planning to harvest a bunch of wood, potentially meaning a bunch of damage.

 

[northwinds]

I've done 2 for 1 with me harvesting the wood, and I wouldn't do it again. It's a lot of work,
and there were issues with how the brush was to be disposed. I did it as a favor for an older
gentleman, and it turned out he thought he was doing it as a favor for me. Since then, he's
asked me to tackle some more difficult jobs on his farm where the trees were close to buildings
or lines or hung up, and I've just said "no thanks."