Logical Reasoning... if there is such a thing.

[Coog]

I am a new member to the forum but a long time reader. First word of warning, I over think everything.
Been building and filling my wood shed for the last two and a half years but am still tied up with the cost of wood boilers. I have a newer home, well insulated, about 1,700 SF with a full, unfinished, basement; So about 3,500 SF of space to heat. I am hesitant to spend $10-$15K on a boiler system when my annual LP costs are $1,000-$1,500 (pending propane costs of course). That is an approximate 10 year payback. I keep digging to find deals and better (cheaper) methods but keep striking out. I am considering a fireplace/stove retrofit instead as it fits better in my budget. Is anyone else in this predicament? What guided your decision to go the wood boiler route?
Certainly there is more that comes to play in scenarios like this but finances are the starting point and I just cannot get there. Maybe this is what it is. At the end of the day this is a personal decision but thought it worthwhile to tap into the knowledge base of the forum. Any guidance would be much appreciated. It seems like I have thought myself into a corner.

 

[DexterDay]

LP will only get higher. Your wood supply (if you dont buy and cut your own) is a source of exercise and will cost about the same today, as it will 10 yrs from now (barring the price of fuel and 2 cycle mix).

I dont own a boiler, but the overall cost will soon pay for itself. I was using almost $4,000 a yr in LP. Only made sense for me. I use pellets and cord wood. But I wont burn LP until I am to old or unable to do what I do now. I'm hoping I have at least 20 yrs of pellet and wood burning left.

Thats my 2 pennies. Having a boiler in the basement should provide enough radiant heat, without any registers or radiators, so you should only need to zone off your upstairs.

 

[rkusek]

It will be harder to justify a boiler in your situation if you only look at current costs. My home is slightly larger but sounds similar in detail. I had no UG lines from pole barn to home the first winter and the electric heat pump only took $258 on the worst month and probably about $1000 for heating purposes that year. I do have a 30x60x14 pole barn that is heated all winter, so that is a benefit. My payback on just the house would be 15 yrs, maybe less if I would get my DHW on wood for 6 months of year. You have to look at where you think LP, oil, or electric prices will go in future. I think LP has doulbed here in last 5 yrs if I remember right. I would like to add radiant to my home (currently W/A HX in HP air handler) in case we ever have a disruption with the power grid. It would be great to have hot water and a warm home with just a few circulators (200w) running off a battery powered inverter in that situation. I will always have wood to cut on my property. If nothing changes drastically over the next few years, then your current setup seems very reasonable. You could also go the wood stove/insert route and save money supplementing the LP if you don't mind the wood mess and tending. With 2 little kids and wife that works too, I ruled that out. I've only burned wood twice in our fireplace but it was more for decoration and a backup than anything.

 

[JP11]

Plan to finish the basement? You're heating costs are only headed up there.

I put my tax return money into the boiler setup. I figured it would really pay off fast. I was using 1600 gallons of oil though... so it made it easier.

JP

 

[taxidermist]

If my LP was 1000 to 1500 a year I wouldnt even now this site exist. LOL

Rob

 

[Eric Johnson]

What guided your decision to go the wood boiler route?

$800 monthly winter gas bills and a sub 65-degree house.

Seriously, you're probably over estimating the cost. You don't need a big boiler. You can probably get an EKO 40 or similar gasifier for $5,000 or less if you shop around. Storage is optional and can be added later. Do the installation yourself and you're only going to be out roughly $2K in materials; maybe less. And, it's a fun, satisfying project.

Renewable energy. Energy independence. It all adds up.

 

[DexterDay]

If my LP was 1000 to 1500 a year I wouldnt even now this site exist. LOL

Rob

X2... When I only burned pellets I was just below $1,000 a yr. Last yr I added the wood stove and only used 2 ton (2 x $175 = $350) for the yr. Wood has helped me lower my heating costs by quite a bit. Also installed a Pellet furnace (Hot air) and that helped even the temps throughout the house.

As Eric said above, renewable energy, independence, and exercise. It gives me a sense of pride, knowing I haven't had a LP fill in almost 3 yrs and I still have about 40% (cooking only). It was a hobby and now its just part of what I do.

Although buying used can sometimes be dangerous, there are some pretty good deals that come up. Some are here in the For Sale section. Right place amd the right time is sometimes all that it takes.


If and when you do get one, you will have a Primo Stash built up. Way ahead of the curve in that department.

Welcome to the Forums

 

[BoilerMan]

It is an independence thing, as well as a financial thing.......... However to echo what has already been said 1-1.5K a winter..... If I won the lottery (I don't play) I'd still burn wood! It's addictive. LP may stay down as there had been alot discovered domestically (a good % comes from refining NG as well as refineing crude). Wood grows on trees!

TS

 

[Coog]

Thanks for all of the great replies thus far. I am certainly not talking down to wood burning or the thought of a wood boiler. I love the stuff that has been posted here. Great ideas. I grew up burning wood but haven't in years. I miss it! I also need to put the little ones to work. What better way to teach your kids how to work than by cutting, splitting and burnng wood. Plus a sense of accomplishment.

I am not giving up on the wood boiler yet but can start with the stove. JP11 mentioned finishing the basement and ironically, I am in the process. Want to use hydrinic heat so I plan to get the underfloor heat installed before the walls go up. Would be near impossible to do after the fact. One peice at a time and I will keep my eyes out for good deals . Any other input is appreciated.

 

[infinitymike]

I didn't want to pay $5k a year for oil any more even though I could afford it.
I didn't want my hard earned money going to the billion dollar companies that could really afford to lower their profit lines.
But mostly and more importantly I didn't want to fund the TERRORISTS any more!

 

[heaterman]

If I was in your shoes and looking at heating costs in that range I would have to think long and hard about spending the dough and time on a wood boiler. (I'd rather be trolling for salmon out on Lake Michigan)
What I would seriously consider is a nice wood stove capable of cutting the January/February fuel cost spike down a notch or two. It will be less than half the investment of a boiler and will run with no electricity in a worst case scenario. My son heats his house with a small wood stove and spends less than $400/year on gas.
Now....if you plan on adding additional buildings like a pole barn or some other "man cave" type space, the boiler is the answer. Nothing moves heat as well as hot water.

 

[Coog]

I didn't want to pay $5k a year for oil any more even though I could afford it.
I didn't want my hard earned money going to the billion dollar companies that could really afford to lower their profit lines.
But mostly and more importantly I didn't want to fund the TERRORISTS any more!

Except that we all still fill our cars with petroleum gravy. Some of the richest natural gas deposits are in North America, specifically the US. Not sure why our country doesn't capture more of that. Just my 2 cents I don't mean to openup a political discussion. I want to burn with wood for other reasons. Reasons I can control.

 

[heaterman]

Except that we all still fill our cars with petroleum gravy. Some of the richest natural gas deposits are in North America, specifically the US. Not sure why our country doesn't capture more of that. Just my 2 cents I don't mean to openup a political discussion. I want to burn with wood for other reasons. Reasons I can control.

Simple answer to using compressed natural gas for transportation is logistics. You have to have the equipment out there rolling down the highway that needs it before the fueling stations will be economically viable. On the other hand, the vehicles burning natural gas will never appear until there are enough places to fill up. It's a chicken / egg thing.

If the dweebs in Washington DC were truly serious about boosting our economy and achieving energy independence they would have taken all the bailout money given to banks, GM etc and spent it on natural gas infrastructure. Pipe it everywhere and put fueling stations every 35 miles. Energy problems gone in 10 years.

 

[Coog]

Simple answer to using compressed natural gas for transportation is logistics. You have to have the equipment out there rolling down the highway that needs it before the fueling stations will be economically viable. On the other hand, the vehicles burning natural gas will never appear until there are enough places to fill up. It's a chicken / egg thing.

If the dweebs in Washington DC were truly serious about boosting our economy and achieving energy independence they would have taken all the bailout money given to banks, GM etc and spent it on natural gas infrastructure. Pipe it everywhere and put fueling stations every 35 miles. Energy problems gone in 10 years.

There is also the issue of compressed gas driving down the road at 70 MPH. A little more reactive than gasoline, but get your point.

There is a little more work to be done but no one seems to be doing anything. We have enough natural gas supply in this country to operate independently for 300+ years. Definitely games being played. Nice that we can burn with would independently from these unknown variables.

 

[heaterman]

There is also the issue of compressed gas driving down the road at 70 MPH. A little more reactive than gasoline, but get your point.

There is a little more work to be done but no one seems to be doing anything. We have enough natural gas supply in this country to operate independently for 300+ years. Definitely games being played. Nice that we can burn with would independently from these unknown variables.

Yes there is that nagging concern about driving around with what amounts to a fuel/air bomb if tank integrity is breached......On the bright side, it would definitely save on accident cleanup costs. Nothing left to clean up ...

 

[rkusek]

Simple answer to using compressed natural gas for transportation is logistics. You have to have the equipment out there rolling down the highway that needs it before the fueling stations will be economically viable. On the other hand, the vehicles burning natural gas will never appear until there are enough places to fill up. It's a chicken / egg thing.

If the dweebs in Washington DC were truly serious about boosting our economy and achieving energy independence they would have taken all the bailout money given to banks, GM etc and spent it on natural gas infrastructure. Pipe it everywhere and put fueling stations every 35 miles. Energy problems gone in 10 years.

I'm just outside the reach of the natural gas lines but I think you an buy a Honda Civic that can go roughly 200 miles on a tank. Since it's exclusively nat gas it's not a road trip vehicle until they get the stations built. However, since it can be refueled at home it certainly would make sense for those of us with a 30-45" commute every day. One of the radio host here locally talks about it and I think he is spending less than 1/2 of what it costs for gasoline on a similar car.

 

[BoilerMan]

Yes there is that nagging concern about driving around with what amounts to a fuel/air bomb if tank integrity is breached......On the bright side, it would definitely save on accident cleanup costs. Nothing left to clean up ...

I like your thinking! Less drunk drivers no doubt.

What better way to teach your kids how to work than by cutting, splitting and burnng wood. Plus a sense of accomplishment.

When I was a kid (not that long ago!) My parents called it "family fun weekends". 8 Cord hauled in an old rock trailer (one cord) then thrown through a basement window, then piled in the basement for winter. Ughhhhh....

TS

 

[Coog]

I like your thinking! Less drunk drivers no doubt.


When I was a kid (not that long ago!) My parents called it "family fun weekends". 8 Cord hauled in an old rock trailer (one cord) then thrown through a basement window, then piled in the basement for winter. Ughhhhh....

TS

Ah yes....but we are better off for it, aren't we.

 

[BoilerMan]

YES we are, learn what good hard physical work is! No video games here.

TS

 

[mikefrommaine]

I like your thinking! Less drunk drivers no doubt.


When I was a kid (not that long ago!) My parents called it "family fun weekends". 8 Cord hauled in an old rock trailer (one cord) then thrown through a basement window, then piled in the basement for winter. Ughhhhh....

TS

When we were done putting up our own supply my father would cut extra so my brother and I could split it and sell a few cords. We got 75 a cord without delivery. Had to negotiate with the old man if you wanted it delivered.

 

[BoilerMan]

See we must have liked it...........We are still doing it, albet in owr own homes, and now our kids will help ..... well mine will when he can walk.

TS