looking for better performance

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MICD

New Member
Jan 7, 2015
3
Metro Detroit
Hey guys, I just got my boiler up and running this year and have had some good and bad experience with it so I am looking for some help. Being in an area with no natural gas (yet, still hoping it will come soon) I put in a pellet stove 3 years ago (heatilator ps50) in my 2100sq/ft house that has pretty good insulation, got by on just that for 2 years but couldn't take the cold in the house some time.

Over the summer I began looking into boilers, I am pretty hard-headed so I decided to build one myself. Since then I have been on a steep learning curve, I just hope to one day be happy with it. With outside temps in the 30's or so, I am. A load of wood will last 14+ hours then but now with this single digit stuff it is not very pleasing. I have been burning mostly ash which has been down and cut for a few years, some more ash that is more recently cut.

The boiler holds 300 gallons of water, dimensions are 3 feet wide, 4 feet deep and 5 tall. The fire box is 24 inches wide, 27 inches high and 27 deep with another i think 15 inch chamber behind the fire box to the area where the chimney pipe is which I am now thinking is part of my problem. It has 2 layers of R-13 fiberglass insulation and metal siding. When I built the boiler I put in refractory bricks on the sides and a steel plate on top to keep the flames from directly contacting the metal but I removed that so I could get more room inside the fire box. It is made from 1/8 inch steel plate, the door is spaced 8 inches out from the front of the fire box and is made with 1/4. To control the temp of the water I have a 140cfm blower with a block off valve and a controller that turns it off and on, when off a rubber flap covers the opening shutting down any air flow into the fire.

For my lines I have 1 inch pex wrapped and buried inside 6 inch corrugated drain pipe(without holes) which run about 60 feet, 3 feet under the ground, a taco WB pump and a heat exchanger in my furnace which brings me to another question. For my heat, I have 2 zones, upstairs and downstairs. I almost never have the upstairs on just because heat rising thru the staircase makes it hot up there very easily. My thermostats have settings for COOL, OFF and HEAT on one switch and the fan switch have ON and AUTO. Is there a different thermostat that I could use that would turn the furnace blower off and on at a set temp? Not having to run my blower all the time would be nice. So far to regulate the temp inside my house I have been changing the temp of the water.

One problem that I can think of is my chimney size, I did not do much reading into properly sizing that. I stupidly assumed that the blower would regulate it well enough. I used 4 inch OD 1/4 wall DOM and 5 feet of double wall 4 inch chimney pipe from there which melted the aluminum cap on top. Now I am thinking that I should upsize the chimney to 8 inch but would that really make all the difference in my wood consumption? To give you an idea I think I burned a face cord of good seasoned stuff in 8 days or so with high temps in the 30's which was insane to me after thinking that I may need at most 12 cords a year. Right now I fear that I have way too much heat just flying out the chimney.

A thought that I have is to use a 8 inch steel pipe, maybe 2 feet in length to get from the fire box thru to the outside of the water jacket then to stainless chimney pipe. Inside that steel what about welding plates on either end and running 7 smaller tubes inside it with the exhaust running thru that and the pipe drilled to be filled with water just like how any steam boiler runs?
 
Your draft fan should be controlled by boiler temp, not house thermostat.

4" is not big enough for a chimney.

Your fundamental problem is poor heat transfer, and most of your heat is going up your stack even though it is undersized. You could try what your talking about with the tubes, but will likely plug them up pretty quick with creosote. Your in the typical water jacketed boiler catch-22 - how to get satisfactory performance with a water-cooled firebox.

Good luck.
 
Your existing thermostat should be able to control your existing furnace fan at a setpoint without a problem. You may need to add some relays and aquastats, but the Heat/Auto function should enable the furnace fan without a problem.

As far as boiler design, thats out of my realm of knowledge. The chimney size will help with your airflow into and out of the boiler, but I dont think it will reduce your wood consumption.
 
Sorry about any confusion, the blower on the boiler is controlled by the water temp, not the house thermostat

I think it was me, who misread what you typed.
 
How does the location of the chimney exit from the fire box effect the heat energy I can get out of the fire? Is it better to mount it low so the gases have to fall to the bottom to exit?

What i can think of that makes sense to get more heat out of the fire before that energy exits the chimney is to have more surface area of water cooled steel. if i did the chimney pipe as i described and also ran more tubes thru the fire box I could possibly double the amount of surface area inside
 
I dont know that a low vs. high location will help extract much more heat, unless the current location really doesnt allow for any time for heat to transfer.

But the bigger issue is that when you burn the wood, there are lots of unburnt volatiles in that smoke that you see head out the chimney. When you add heat transfer surface backed by water, they will condense out into a coating on the firebox (creosote). So unless you can configure a way to have the boiler re-burn some of that smoke to get more energy out of it, you will still have some issues with performance.
 
There is quite a bit of engineering that goes into a modern, efficient boiler design. Heat transfer and thermodynamics, combustion and primary/ secondary air regulation, size of the HX surface area in relation to the firebox size, flow path and rate on the water side. Not to mention assembly and material selection, controls and safeties, etc.

Many have tried to disassemble and copy refined Euro technology gasification boilers, it's not always a successful endeavor.

Don't mean to rain on your parade, but it may be trial and error to get to where you want to be. Just be safe, invest in some top quality, low level CO detector if you plan on living and sleeping in the same space as any fuel burning appliance.
 
Hey guys, I just got my boiler up and running this year and have had some good and bad experience with it so I am looking for some help. Being in an area with no natural gas (yet, still hoping it will come soon) I put in a pellet stove 3 years ago (heatilator ps50) in my 2100sq/ft house that has pretty good insulation, got by on just that for 2 years but couldn't take the cold in the house some time.

Over the summer I began looking into boilers, I am pretty hard-headed so I decided to build one myself. Since then I have been on a steep learning curve, I just hope to one day be happy with it. With outside temps in the 30's or so, I am. A load of wood will last 14+ hours then but now with this single digit stuff it is not very pleasing. I have been burning mostly ash which has been down and cut for a few years, some more ash that is more recently cut.

The boiler holds 300 gallons of water, dimensions are 3 feet wide, 4 feet deep and 5 tall. The fire box is 24 inches wide, 27 inches high and 27 deep with another i think 15 inch chamber behind the fire box to the area where the chimney pipe is which I am now thinking is part of my problem. It has 2 layers of R-13 fiberglass insulation and metal siding. When I built the boiler I put in refractory bricks on the sides and a steel plate on top to keep the flames from directly contacting the metal but I removed that so I could get more room inside the fire box. It is made from 1/8 inch steel plate, the door is spaced 8 inches out from the front of the fire box and is made with 1/4. To control the temp of the water I have a 140cfm blower with a block off valve and a controller that turns it off and on, when off a rubber flap covers the opening shutting down any air flow into the fire.

For my lines I have 1 inch pex wrapped and buried inside 6 inch corrugated drain pipe(without holes) which run about 60 feet, 3 feet under the ground, a taco WB pump and a heat exchanger in my furnace which brings me to another question. For my heat, I have 2 zones, upstairs and downstairs. I almost never have the upstairs on just because heat rising thru the staircase makes it hot up there very easily. My thermostats have settings for COOL, OFF and HEAT on one switch and the fan switch have ON and AUTO. Is there a different thermostat that I could use that would turn the furnace blower off and on at a set temp? Not having to run my blower all the time would be nice. So far to regulate the temp inside my house I have been changing the temp of the water.

One problem that I can think of is my chimney size, I did not do much reading into properly sizing that. I stupidly assumed that the blower would regulate it well enough. I used 4 inch OD 1/4 wall DOM and 5 feet of double wall 4 inch chimney pipe from there which melted the aluminum cap on top. Now I am thinking that I should upsize the chimney to 8 inch but would that really make all the difference in my wood consumption? To give you an idea I think I burned a face cord of good seasoned stuff in 8 days or so with high temps in the 30's which was insane to me after thinking that I may need at most 12 cords a year. Right now I fear that I have way too much heat just flying out the chimney.

A thought that I have is to use a 8 inch steel pipe, maybe 2 feet in length to get from the fire box thru to the outside of the water jacket then to stainless chimney pipe. Inside that steel what about welding plates on either end and running 7 smaller tubes inside it with the exhaust running thru that and the pipe drilled to be filled with water just like how any steam boiler runs?
It sounds like you are heating too much water, maybe half the water jacket would be more than sufficient. You can install zone valves to control water flow to individual hydronic coils, using w from the stat to energize valve and g from stat controls blower.
 
Had to check in on the thread as I just approved posting . Title sounded like a lead in to some kind of male enhancement drug spam mail.
 
Ifyour melting your chimney cap you have very poor heat transfer. That's not something your going to be able to fix easily at this point in the game. need some kind of fire tube heat exchanger. Do a lot of reading and looking at designs on here and you will be much more educated on good designs.
 
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