looking for someone that know the defiant 1

[fbelec]

i have a problem running my secondary. about 1 hour ago stove was running 600 - 650 on the cooking plate. was going to hit the bed for some shuteye. i topped of the stove and let the new wood get going then engaged the damper for the secondary. that is the way the manual says to do it for the long burn as they call it. so i opened up the secondary air hole and engaged the damper for the secondary burn, it light strong had a rumble sound almost like a blow torch. since the stove has no glass the only way to know that the secondary is running is looking thru the secondary air hole for light. a good hot fire is yellow orange and secondary makes that turn to white blue. was running fine for five minutes. i got myself down next to the stove to make sure that it was still going and when i got there is was going then went out as i continued looking it light off. small explosion inside the stove that smoke came out the primary and secondary hole. a real quick boom. needless to say i had to go wipe after that. i disengaged the secondary and closed the air for it and left it in updraft position. my question is was this a common problem with this stove. is there something i can do to make the secondary more reliable so that i don't get any secondary coming out of me hh:

 

[Dune]

I don't remember ever having that problem, maybe someone else?

 

[fbelec]

happened again last night. lucky it didn't set off the smoke alarms
anybody got any ideas

 

[begreen]

Sounds like a puffback from the combustion of unburnt wood gas. I'm guessing the fire got snuffed, smoldered, then reignited. This could be from semi-seasoned wood and/or closing the bypass too soon. How long between reloading the stove and closing the bypass?

BTW, I think the secondary flap is supposed to stay open all the time unless there is a situation, like very strong draft, that requires a reduction of secondary air.

 

[Fsappo]

Sounds like a puffback from the combustion of unburnt wood gas. I'm guessing the fire got snuffed, smoldered, then reignited. This could be from semi-seasoned wood and/or closing the bypass too soon. How long between reloading the stove and closing the bypass?

BTW, I think the secondary flap is supposed to stay open all the time unless there is a situation, like very strong draft, that requires a reduction of secondary air.

Exactly what Green said. It's hard to get a puffback on those old Defiants. Keep the little keyhole thingie shut

Open, keep the keyhole thing open, sorry. It's been about 20 years

 

[STOVEGUY11]

Maybe the stove is filled with ash behind the baffle. So when you close the damper down the smoke has no where to go.

 

[fbelec]

wood is good and dry. no hissing and pretty light in weight. if i leave open the secondary air in the updraft position the stove wants to run away i've caught it up at 750 to 800. i usually run the stove for about a hour after reload and engage the damper for secondary when the stove is good and hot somewhere about 600 degrees. like i said in the first post it was good and hot and when i engaged the secondary it ran for about five minutes and was running well, like a blow torch. when i went to check on it 5 minutes later it was running then stopped and then when it lit up again it was like a small explosion and it backpuffed and slammed the primary air shutter back and forth.

 

[fbelec]

forgot to say i just reuild it from the base up. so it's clean.

 

[begreen]

To clarify, I was referring to the little secondary air intake flap, not the bypass damper. It sounds like you certainly waited long enough to engage the bypass. I would have thought 30 minutes would have been plenty of time.

How tall of a flue is on the stove and were the outside temps fairly mild?

 

[fbelec]

last night it was about 35 degrees. here is the weak spot. uasally i don't have any draft problems, but starting from my stove outlet on top of the stove, 1.5 feet 90 degrees 2 feet into the thimble, 8.5 x 13 masonry chimney up 10 feet. if it wasn't for the 8.5 x 13 inch size, my manual says a 8 x 12 will work and back then they counted the connector pipe as footage of chimney. so by their rules i have a 14 foot chimney. like i say, normally no draft problems even at 50 degrees.

 

[fraxinus]

The little keyhole thingee should remain open at all times. What I think is happening is that the air source is being cut off too soon. The smoldering wood produces excessive smoke, puff back and a rather spectacular ignition if more air is introduced suddenly which ignites the accumulated gasses. I expect nearly every owner of an old Defiant has had at least one memorable experience of blowing the griddle plate straight up into the air; the smoldering wood produces the gasses, a door is opened , and boom. The whole experience is made even more memorable if the griddle plate drops down into the now roaring fire.

The best way of prepping the stove for a long overnight burn is to establish a good bed of coals (very important), leave the keyhole thingee open, close the damper and adjust the themostatically controlled plate so it is just barely open - it will adjust itself so that the wood burns slowly but does not starve for oxygen. That said, I know many people strive for overnight burn by stuffing the stove full and then going to bed, but I've never been comfortable with doing that. To me, it's always seemed fairly wasteful of wood and unnecessarily dangerous in the sense that there is no one keeping an eye, ear or nose on the stove. Keeping a good bed of coals for a quick start the next morning is easier and safer.

 

[fbelec]

The little keyhole thingee should remain open at all times. What I think is happening is that the air source is being cut off too soon. The smoldering wood produces excessive smoke, puff back and a rather spectacular ignition if more air is introduced suddenly which ignites the accumulated gasses. I expect nearly every owner of an old Defiant has had at least one memorable experience of blowing the griddle plate straight up into the air; the smoldering wood produces the gasses, a door is opened , and boom. The whole experience is made even more memorable if the griddle plate drops down into the now roaring fire.

The best way of prepping the stove for a long overnight burn is to establish a good bed of coals (very important), leave the keyhole thingee open, close the damper and adjust the themostatically controlled plate so it is just barely open - it will adjust itself so that the wood burns slowly but does not starve for oxygen. That said, I know many people strive for overnight burn by stuffing the stove full and then going to bed, but I've never been comfortable with doing that. To me, it's always seemed fairly wasteful of wood and unnecessarily dangerous in the sense that there is no one keeping an eye, ear or nose on the stove. Keeping a good bed of coals for a quick start the next morning is easier and safer.

problem is when i leave the secondary air port open when in updraft mode the temp starts heading for the roof. the primary air is closed and the temp is still running hard and straightup if i shut the secondary air port when in updraft the primary control keeps the stove at 550 to 600 where i set it. vc says it ok to run 750 when starting but not for running. listening to what you just said i will try opening up the primary air some before closing the damper. i read on another post last night titled secondary of a simular happening, but with a epa stove and i beleave it was with a downdraft stove where he had the primary air closed all the way and he had waves of flame starting from the top and a rumble noise with it. and someone said the primary air was closed to much. i let you guys know what happens.

 

[begreen]

FWIW, my brother used to run his at 650-700 pretty much full time in the dead of winter. I think the original manual says not to exceed 700. If this is connect to a tall chimney, then maybe try operating with the secondary intake port half-open?

How tall is the flue on the stove? Is the thermostatic damper working well and closing tightly when the stove and room are hot? One trick you might try is to put a small magnet on the bottom of the air flap that is controlled by the thermostat. I used a little 1/2" x 1/4" magnet on our Resolute and it worked pretty well. It also stops the air flap from tapping when it is just about to close.

 

[fbelec]

my flue is about ten feet from where the connector goes into it to the top. overall height is about 18 feet from clean out to top.
my house is 1240 square, if i ran the stove that hot i think i would melt us all. running between 550 and 600 heats so well i've been doing 1 fire a day. start about 10:00 at night give or take a hour. i start at 62 to 65 degrees and when it's done the house is 73.
i never had the tapping problem, unless the wind comes from the west, then the flap moves but no tapping just a squeak squeak.

 

[peakbagger]

I have had similiar experiences, usually after running ther stove hard all day with a warm chimney and a good bed of coals. When I loaded it up before going to bed, usually the primary damper was not open very much or at all. I suspect the hot coals and large load of dry wood, would create more gases than there was primary air, they would build up into the primary combustuon area, and at some point enough air would back into the main combustion space from the secondary chamber and torch it off causing a puff. My solution is to make sure that the fire is ramping down with the primary damper open, before loading it up with wood. If I mistimed it I would open up the primary damper and give it a bit more air.

 

[fbelec]

peak
i think that is what is happening to me. as soon as it cools down a little outside. i'll try adding more primary air and more time after loading before i damp it down on the next fire. it's just a eye opening experience when your on your knees about a foot away from the stove when it happens

 

[fbelec]

just a update. i guess it's all to do with timing. last night i light the stove about 8:00pm. small fire to build a coal bed. after that went down i had a nice coal bed the stove started it's way down the cool path, thru on a few splits and poof, roaring fire. got it up to 650 to 700 on the cooking plate. the primary air was still over half wide open. that fire by the way took 1/2 hour to come up. so i filled up the fire box the rest of the way. waited 5 to 10 min to make sure that it was not going to cool off then closed the damper and the secondary lit off. it stayed that way for a hour. in that time the primary air spring is almost closed and i could see the secondary flame was weak and looking like it wanted to go out, so i opened the primary air a little and that problem was solved. once the stove leveled off the primary air was staying open about 1/4 inch and everything went ok. no explosions. the stove was working the opposite of what it usually does. normally the top front and left side are hot and the right side and back are cooler. this time the top and left side were cooler and the back and right side was cooking. i guess the trick is keeping enough primary air flowing (thanks to you guys out here) so that it doesn't flow back from the secondary. one thing i did noticed before i hit the sack was the right side of the stove where the secondary chamber is was ever so slightly glowing. i think that was what kept the secondary going. if they fire brick lined the chamber it would have worked better right from the get go. the only thing that is a shame is even with the secondary flame it was still throwing plenty of smoke out the chimney.

anyway thanks for the help. i thought i did all that work of rebuilding the stove for nothing.