Looking for stove size guidance....

[jstellfox]

I am looking to buy my first wood stove and have been sifting through the tons of info here on hearth. I have a 1300 sqft 2 story house that sits on top of an uninsulated block wall basement. House was built in 1921 so there is not much insulation anywhere else either. I plan to put the wood stove in the basement because we really have no place on the first floor for a wood stove and also have 2 small children that do not need to be around it. Our house is pretty small with a living room, dining room and kitchen on the first floor and 3 bedrooms and a bath on the second floor. I have registers already cut in the floor for the old oil forced air duct work that I plan to take down the ductwork and just leave the metal registers in the floor for heat transfer. I also will leave the basement door open for heat transfer. I think I have narrowed my choices down to the englander (summersheat) 50 snc13 or the 50 snc30. I know what all the numbers are as far as the square footage that it heats and the size of the firebox and such....but my question to you guys who would know alot more than me is this. Will the 13 be big enough to heat the whole house or should I opt for the 30? A little worried that the 30 might cook us out on the first floor since our house is so compact and our basement ceiling is only 6 foot. On the other hand the basement is unfinished and uninsulated and I anticipate heat loss, so maybe a 30 will be just right and the 13 would not be able to overcome the heat loss of a leaky house??? Please help. Thanks!

oh and i am planning a through the wall and up along the house with a stainless steel supervent chimney from lowes.

Jason

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I have a small cape in upstate NY. The downstairs is right at 1000 sq ft. Last year, on the cold days, I could light the 30 down in the uninsulated block basement and the upstairs would stay at 65. No higher.

I have worked on insulating the basement to stop the block from absorbing so much of the heat. I will also say last year my wood had only been drying a year and was still fairly wet since we had so much rain that summer. Do you have your wood up and drying? It's been a hot year, but your oaks and such will not be dry by winter if harvested now.

Not saying what you should do, but in the prior house I had a 25K btu stove in a back corner (Less than ideal location) and was able to heat half of a 1920 1600 sq ft colonial without any insulation in the walls, old windows, etc.

These stoves are really space heaters and heat just like the little ones that plug into the wall. The area closest is warmer than the areas farther away. The only reason my stove is now in the basement is that is where my father had a coal stove. I'm not into coal so I threw an englander 30 in its place and lined his old masonry chimney so it would draft better.

Matt

 

[fossil]

Well, Jason, if you've spent some time wandering around these forums, you probably already know that the situation you've described is less than ideal in a number of ways. If I had to just swag some order of magnitude numbers, I'd say that something like 85% of the heat output from the stove will be sucked up (and lost) in the basement, maybe 10% will make it up to the first floor, and maybe 5% (or less) to the second floor. You'll be humping wood to the basement to heat...the basement. Removing the existing ducting and leaving the registers through the floors could be a code violation, because of the danger of a fire spreading rapidly through the structure. I think that if I were in your situation, and planned to convert the old house from oil to wood, my first order of business would be insulation everywhere, and whatever else I could do to make the house more energy efficient. My second order of business would be to think long and hard about giving up some space on the first floor for a wood stove, because that's really where it needs to be. If you change nothing and proceed with your current plan, then I wouldn't be at all concerned that an Englander 30 burning in the uninsulated basement is going to cook you out of the first floor. Rick

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Oh, welcome to the forum!


Matt

 

[Todd]

Sounds like your a good candidate for a wood furnace. The same people that make the stoves your looking at make a good furnace.

 

[Fsappo]

Yup, a small wood furnace like the Mini Caddy would do ya just fine.

 

[jstellfox]

Guys thanks for the input. Fossil, I realize that I am in less than an ideal situation all around, but I absolutely have no space on my 1st floor. I know I will lose a pile of heat to my basement, but with a low 6 ft basement ceiling and a Englander 30 cranking in the basement I would have thought I would at least be able to heat the 1st floor to 70 degrees or so? Is there no way to make that happen? A furnace is not really feasible at this point for me.

 

[Fsappo]

How is a wood stove feasible and a small furnace not? Tell us whats getting in the way and maybe we can offer another suggestion. There are some very strong opinions on these forums with a very anti stove in the basement and pro put the stove in the area you want to heat sentiment. What I have had customers do in the past was put a stove in the basement that is primarily convection heat which should be less apt to be sucked unto the basement walls. Run the fan only on the furnace to help spread the heat around the house by keeping the basement door open and maybe cutting a few vents in the floor. If your looking to make this kind of move, just oversize the stove. Go for something with a 3 cubic foot firebox and a long burn time (less walking up and down the stairs). I may have something you would be interested in if you want to PM me.

 

[jstellfox]

I am on a tight budget as I also need to put a flue up since my house doesn't have one anymore. So a furnace may be out of my price range where as a $900 Englander 30 is just the right price. I just had assumed with a 3.5 cu ft firebox and vents in the floor that i would be able to heat the first floor of my home with this stove in my basement despite the heat loss...Am I totally out of line with this thinking? Other people seem to have stoves in the basement around here and seem to be successful in heating their homes, so i assumed I would be ok. Now you guys have me wondering.

 

[Fsappo]

Based on what you told us, and if you couldnt spend another 700-1000 on an epa furnace, your idea seems like the best move. Big stove, make tons of convection heat, keep the floors warm and work on moving the air around.

 

[fossil]

Lots of variables involved...not the least of which is just how much wood you'll need to burn in order to meet your heating requirements. If a large portion of your time, effort, and expense is wasted in the process, but you're willing to bite that bullet, then go for it (lost heat=wasted wood). If you're on a tight budget for the initial capital outlay for the installation, what sort of budget are you going to be on for the ongoing costs of fuel? Is firewood free for you, or are there costs involved in collecting and processing the wood? BTW...Your local building/safety inspector, or other Authority Having Jurisdiction might have something to say about the notion of unducted holes in your floors...something you might want to ask about prior to proceeding. Rick

 

[Fsappo]

Ricks right about the unducted holes, I'd check it.

 

[jstellfox]

ok to quell the financial part of the equation that everyone is interested in...I pay about $450 per month for electric heat. I would pay for gas to go cut wood as the price for a cord of wood is only $15 (negligible). I don't mind cutting wood. It is going to save me a pile of money. The question is just getting the right stove for my basement situation. I live in a rural area where lots of people heat with wood and they have vents cut in the floor. (assuming its legal) would that be sufficient to heat my first floor? Using the 30?

 

[laynes69]

I would consider putting some insulation in the house. Wood may save you some money, but insulation will pay itself back many times in comfort and savings. If the house was insulated then you could look into other options. I do believe there also are tax credits if you can do it this year with the insulation. An englander wood furnace can be gotten for a good price. But I would also think it would run you out of the house.

 

[Todd]

My first choice would be a furnace but if the funds weren't there I'd go with the larger NC 30. How close would the stove be to the stairwell? The closer the better since it will be your main source of warm air. If it's located centrally it may work out fine but you will have about a 5-10 degree difference between floors. Maybe you could add some insulation to those basement walls from time to time to help out.

 

[btuser]

If you have not central heating right now and the choice is between a wood stove and nothing then I think you've got the idea. However, if you had the year to spare I'd work on insulation and a good dry wood pile, then go for the stove. I don't care what anyone says, even if would is free it ain't cheap. Blowing heat out of an uninsulated structure is more work than its worth.

As far as fire codes and floor registars, I'm sure the old ducts are quite a hazzard already but you won't be helping by removing them. At least you're not putting a plenum under the woodstove and trying to circulate that way. 1920's house? Probably baloon framed anyway so forget about a fire barrier between floors. Your best defense is always caution.

 

[BrotherBart]

If you go with the 30-NC position it where it faces toward the basement stairs. Buy the blower for it and that sucker will shoot the hot air off the top of the stove right at the stairs and from there nature will take its course. Additional help will be putting a small fan on the floor in the corner of the basement door aimed down to return cold air to the basement in exchange for the hot air coming up.

 

[jstellfox]

Thanks Bart...I think the 30 can serve me well. I may not have the ideal situation, but cutting the wood myself for almost nothing but hard work or even buying a tri-axle load for $650 that will last more than a season is better than the $450+ a month electric heat bills that I have been dealing with. I know my setup isn't pretty and I will lose a crap load of heat through the walls, but if I can keep my first floor heated as well and keep my electric heat off that is all I am looking for.

 

[BrotherBart]

That's what it is all about.

 

[fossil]

See, that was easy. Just keep asking the same question until you get the answer you're looking for, and then run with it. Are these forums a great resource, or what? Seriously, I hope that whatever you decide to do you do it safely and that it brings you the warmth in the wintertime that you're hoping to feel...and has the effect on your electric bill that you're hoping to achieve. Keep us informed here on how it goes. Rick

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Get cutting the wood now so it has a chance to dry.


Matt

 

[rdust]

If it has to go in the basement the 30 is the one to go with.

Who much wood do you up and ready right now? You will find quickly these EPA stoves like well seasoned wood in order to perform properly. You will probably need all the heat you can get with the basement install, you don't need to be wasting energy burning off excess moisture in the wood.

 

[rdust]

Get cutting the wood now so it has a chance to dry.


Matt

If it's not already cut it won't make much difference. The way I figure it we only have the rest of July, August and September(may even need some fires in September). Even White Ash will have trouble being ready in that amount of time. Of course some drying time is better then nothing.

 

[BrotherBart]

There is not one tree, down or otherwise that you can cut and split now that is going to be ready to burn this winter. You will just spend all of your time wasting that wood trying to keep it burning and then later cleaning a mess of black, damned dangerous, glue out of the chimney.

That 30 will burn it. But it will scare the crap out of you some of the time and disappoint you the rest of the time with less than good dry wood. That is what I went through the first year with mine and it is hell. The lignin in wood does some crazy stuff right after you spend an hour or two trying to get less than dry wood to burn. The stuff takes off like gasoline. Then the stuff smolders and deposits crud in the chimney for the rest of the night.

Here is a shot of what happens when that stuff takes off.

 

[jeff_t]

Will the 6' basement ceiling be an issue with clearance?