Looks like CA drew the line on ICE engines 2035

[woodgeek]

Maybe the market has spoken in certain demographics?I personally know only 1 person with a bev. I've never seen one in my town of 800 people. I'd be willing to bet less than 1% of the people I know would want bev or afford one for thar matter. I'm not against the technology. It's great if it truly pollute less. I just think diversity wins when it comes to energy and no 1 type should be forced or outlawed or mandated

Adoption is very uneven by region. Nationwide, BEVs are 5% of new light vehicles in the US in 2022. In California, that figure is 18% in 2022.

Current EV registrations in the US: How does your state stack up and who grew the most YOY?

A detailed list breaking down the most recent data involving registrations of battery EVs in the US, compared by side-by-side by state.

electrek.co

In my area, I see BEVs everywhere here in the Philly suburbs. Mostly Teslas, but a lot of other makes too. Like, if I stop at a busy light, I will see more than one Tesla pretty much every single time. I will often find a Tesla in front of me AND behind me. I also see the occasional Bolt, Ford Mach-E, etc. My town is pretty wealthy, and that partly explains it.

Its not all politics... when I was in Florida this summer, I also saw BEVs everywhere. The link above shows BEVs are more popular in Texas and Florida than in NY or Mass (and Pennsylvania). This is probably a cold weather penalty.

Diversity of tech and energy supply is great... but in the end people will buy what is cheapest. The legacy makers are switching bc they can see the handwriting on the wall... that BEVs will be the cheapest/best car tech in a few years, and they want to survive.

I think the US govt is trying to incentivize domestic production and supply chains for BEVs, so that we will continue to have a domestic car manufacturing business. They want the contribution to GDP and the manufacturing jobs. The climate benefits are also a no-brainer.

 

[EbS-P]

Of course bevs have their place. I think we should use all forms of energy. Wind water nuke coal oil battery hydrogen. I think the more diverse the better. I think the government. Is pushing it to fast. (And not because they care about environment). It makes the government money. More dependence on the grid gives them more control. I would be willing to bet they will try to ban burning wood in the next 50 yrs. Hope I'm wrong

We should all do anything in our power to no be subservient to OPEC. The government has some regulatory powers over the grid but mostly it’s a private corporations. Remember the Colonial Pipe line fiasco. Diversification is key! As for wood stoves, those decisions now are local/state decisions. If you live somewhere where air quality is not an issue now I don’t see wood stoves as being an issue in 50 years.

 

[begreen]

I think the US govt is trying to incentivize domestic production and supply chains for BEVs, so that we will continue to have a domestic car manufacturing business. They want the contribution to GDP and the manufacturing jobs. The climate benefits are also a no-brainer.

The govt. is also subsidizing charging infrastructure which is a key component of wider adoption.

 

[Ashful]

The govt. is also subsidizing charging infrastructure which is a key component of wider adoption.

Charging infrastructure is the number one complaint I hear from friends with BEV's. It's been a few months now, maybe things have improved over this last year, but it seemed only Tesla had any level of an actually-functional charging network, from what I was hearing at the beginning of this year. More often than not, it seemed the few non-Tesla stations that could be found had a relatively low probability of being in good working order, when you arrived.

I mention this, because like woodgeek, the vast majority of EV's I see on the road here are indeed Teslas. I do see an occasional Mustang Mach-E, Bolt or Volt. But probably more than 8/10 BEV's I see on the road are Tesla, with all remaining brands combined sharing a less than 20% share of that market, meaning probably less than 5% each by my unscientific casual observance. I have heard at least a few Tesla owners suggest they wanted to consider other brands, but the charging network essentially forced them to give Tesla top consideration.

 

[EbS-P]

Charging infrastructure is the number one complaint I hear from friends with BEV's. It's been a few months now, maybe things have improved over this last year, but it seemed only Tesla had any level of an actually-functional charging network, from what I was hearing at the beginning of this year. More often than not, it seemed the few non-Tesla stations that could be found had a relatively low probability of being in good working order, when you arrived.

I mention this, because like woodgeek, the vast majority of EV's I see on the road here are indeed Teslas. I do see an occasional Mustang Mach-E, Bolt or Volt. But probably more than 8/10 BEV's I see on the road are Tesla, with all remaining brands combined sharing a less than 20% share of that market, meaning probably less than 5% each by my unscientific casual observance. I have heard at least a few Tesla owners suggest they wanted to consider other brands, but the charging network essentially forced them to give Tesla top consideration.

If/when Tesla opens up their network to everyone I wonder what they will do. Make long lines I’m guessing.

 

[stoveliker]

You'll hear Tesla owners scream. Or they "reserve" a few charging spots for Tesla owners whereas the rest of the common folks stand in line. I.e. they have then two charging networks, one to service their own, and one for the rest of the people.

 

[EbS-P]

You'll hear Tesla owners scream. Or they "reserve" a few charging spots for Tesla owners whereas the rest of the common folks stand in line. I.e. they have then two charging networks, one to service their own, and one for the rest of the people.

They better And it would be nice if I didn’t have even see the other BEVs when I pull up. All kidding aside the fact there is not a standard charging plug is silly. I mean if the EU can mandate single plug types for phones…..

 

[Ashful]

They better And it would be nice if I didn’t have even see the other BEVs when I pull up. All kidding aside the fact there is not a standard charging plug is silly. I mean if the EU can mandate single plug types for phones…..

Imagine if gas pumps only fit one particular brand of car.

 

[woodgeek]

Charging infrastructure is the number one complaint I hear from friends with BEV's. It's been a few months now, maybe things have improved over this last year, but it seemed only Tesla had any level of an actually-functional charging network, from what I was hearing at the beginning of this year. More often than not, it seemed the few non-Tesla stations that could be found had a relatively low probability of being in good working order, when you arrived.

I have had no such problem. The DCFCs I have found road-tripping have all had 4+ stalls, often 10 or more, and maybe fewer than 1 in 4 out of commission. Electrify America, usually next to a Mall, a strip mall or a Walmart.

I spend 3-5 minutes looking at apps before I leave the house on a roadtrip. Big whoop.

I was surprised that there aren't any DCFCs in New Jersey south of AC (major shore destinations), and there is only 1 on Cape Cod (in Hyannis). I ended up doing L1/L2 in both places on vacation.

There is more FUD out there than instruction. Its a public education thing. I have heard lots of news stories and articles about how NOT to DCFC charge an EV, and never one about how to find them! Sometimes PlugShare gets mentioned, but it omits a bunch of DCFCs (bc it got bought by one of the competing networks), and no one ever mentions ABRP.

One issue is that car salesmen don't drive EVs, and wouldn't know how to find a DCFC if their life depended on it. They usually ask ME how I am going to get home, LOL. Want to sell some EVs? Sell them at a discount to your salesmen!

 

[Ashful]

I have had no such problem. The DCFCs I have found road-tripping have all had 4+ stalls, often 10 or more, and maybe fewer than 1 in 4 out of commission. Electrify America, usually next to a Mall, a strip mall or a Walmart.

There was one person who posted here in the last 6-12 months, talking about a road trip, where they had this issue with mapping out charging locations, only to find some of they critically not functional. If it wasn't you or EbS-P, then I'd guess it must have been jebatty. My memory for who said what isn't great, but I do recall it being mentioned here.

Another case was a coworker who went from a Volt to a Bolt to a Mach-E. He's been all-in with BEV's since the Volt was first released, and he's had a few such incidents in long-distance travel with them. Maybe not enough to matter in the long run, but definitely enough of an issue that I've heard more than one person echo the sentiment that they went Tesla over another brand, solely for the better access to a charging network.

There is more FUD out there than instruction...

Okay, I can normally reason my way thru your acronyms, but you got me with this one. F'ed Up Disinformation?

 

[EbS-P]

What we are not taking about yet is how and where all these BEVs will be serviced. Name a local shop that will work on 10-15 year old hybrid battery. I certainly can’t. Will be locked into dealer only service for a decade or two like Tesla. Chargers are easy and relatively cheap to install with a predictable revenue stream /cost structure. Service centers/auto shops not so much.

 

[woodgeek]

There was one person who posted here in the last 6-12 months, talking about a road trip, where they had this issue with mapping out charging locations, only to find some of they critically not functional. If it wasn't you or EbS-P, then I'd guess it must have been jebatty. My memory for who said what isn't great, but I do recall it being mentioned here.

Another case was a coworker who went from a Volt to a Bolt to a Mach-E. He's been all-in with BEV's since the Volt was first released, and he's had a few such incidents in long-distance travel with them. Maybe not enough to matter in the long run, but definitely enough of an issue that I've heard more than one person echo the sentiment that they went Tesla over another brand, solely for the better access to a charging network.


Okay, I can normally reason my way thru your acronyms, but you got me with this one. F'ed Up Disinformation?

Fear, uncertainty, and doubt - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

People kinda miss the point. I posted on a different forum what apps I used to find DCFC (ABRP), and how I used a different app to check that they were working (EA). And a third app (Apple Maps) to do the navigation. And everyone said, 'Ok, that's it! If I need three apps to road-trip, I will just buy a Tesla!'

All the stories in the press (that get repeated on social media) are folks using a dumb app to find DCFCs, or even L2's, looking for EV charging signs on the interstate, or folks putting a bike rack AND a car top bag on their car and then wondering why it got 30% less range than expected and not reaching the DCFC they expected to reach with 10% left in the tank.

IOW, use the right app, leave some margin, and its never a problem... But if you do dumb stuff and get stuck, well, call the New York Times, you are going to be famous!

 

[stoveliker]

I smell a business opportunity - re: 3 apps needed...

 

[Ashful]

I smell a business opportunity - re: 3 apps needed...

I was just thinking the same. Bezos should be getting his Waze crew on rolling this functionality all into that app, lest some entrepreneurial young soul beat him to the punch.

 

[Ashful]

IOW, use the right app, leave some margin, and its never a problem... But if you do dumb stuff and get stuck, well, call the New York Times, you are going to be famous!

Disorganized and ignorant people need cars, too. Maybe they're the same people presently buying sub-200hp SUV's, discussed today in another thread.

Most people just don't want to be bothered to plan, so there will be a painful learning curve. No surprises, there.

 

[begreen]

I was just thinking the same. Bezos should be getting his Waze crew on rolling this functionality all into that app, lest some entrepreneurial young soul beat him to the punch.

It was supposed to show up in 2022 but I don't see it. They should have it at the top level as an alternate to Gas Stations.

 

[EbS-P]

I smell a business opportunity - re: 3 apps needed...

I can’t even add a waypoint or do a round trip with Teslas navigation

 

[woodgeek]

I smell a business opportunity - re: 3 apps needed...

The problem is not the app... its the networks behind the apps. ABRP is the best route planner, and has all the DCFCs. BUT, they want me to just use their embedded navigation, and be a one stop shop. But I like the routing and real time traffic in AppleMaps better (which requires a large user base). And then PlugShare, which sucks as a route planner, used to have all the chargers and lists amenities/food around them, but got bought by a DCFC network owner (EVGo?)... so they don't list some of their competitors DCFCs! And while ABRP lists all the DCFCs, they don't own them, say EA does. And EA wants me to use their app for route planning and navigation, so they don't share their real-time charger status with other places... to force me to their app to check if their station is online.

Basically, everyone is trying to make a buck by trying to be an all in one solution, but is then refusing to share all their data with others (or to delist their DCFCs), and none of them have a big enough user base to offer a nav as good as AppleMaps or Google.

Capitalism at its finest.

Oh, and then there are the legacy makers. Chevy has an EV route planner (and navigation) built into their 'MyChevy' app. That interfaces seamlessly with the car (so it knows things like state of charge, temp, etc useful for reliable route planning). But then they decided to bundle that feature with some other stuff and charge $40/mo for the bundle. On a car I already bought. No thanks. They can FRO... and I will use ABRP and AppleMaps. And THIS is probably why the salesman doesn't tell me how to use ABRP... he has been instructed to sell me on the $40/mo route planning app (that other users say doesn't work very well anyway).

What will happen is that Apple and Google will eventually either buy ABRP, or more likely duplicate their database (the number of DCFCs is not that large). IOW, at some point Apple/Google Maps will just sprout a 'route EV' button, and we'll be done, and all these other things will go belly up. They haven't done that yet, given the small number of users.

Bottom line: the DCFC hardware is actually pretty OK, but finding one and its current status is Balkanized. Bc of capitalism. This doesn't strand you in the middle of nowhere... but it means you have to check a few different apps. And no one without an EV (e.g. a journalist) can be bothered, so they just say something nebulous like the hardware is non-existent, or broken, or inadequate. While its actually sitting right there waiting for you to plug in, if you have the patience to find it and get it going!

 

[woodgeek]

Disorganized and ignorant people need cars, too. Maybe they're the same people presently buying sub-200hp SUV's, discussed today in another thread.

Most people just don't want to be bothered to plan, so there will be a painful learning curve. No surprises, there.

Yeah... and oftentimes those people run out gas. Except that that doesn't become national news every time it happens. And then every story is about how gas cars don't go far enough and there aren't enough gas stations...

 

[stoveliker]

You just made the case for that app.
It just needs to provide enough of a mfg incentive ($) to allow access to what that particular car (network) needs.

$40 a month is a good incentive for customers to make the profit on such mfg apps negligible by not buying it and keeping the user base small. And that should help more universal app developers.

At least, that's what I'd hope - not having any formal business training.

 

[Ashful]

Yeah... and oftentimes those people run out gas. Except that that doesn't become national news every time it happens. And then every story is about how gas cars don't go far enough and there aren't enough gas stations...

lol... agreed!

At some point, even the far right will realize it's silly to argue against a vehicle you can just plug in when you get home at night, versus having to worry about getting to the gas station on your morning commute.

 

[woodgeek]

The situation is a lot like... streaming services on your TV. You want to watch a movie, so you check to see if its free on Netflix... if its not, you check if you can buy it on Amazon or Apple. Or maybe maybe you just Google it first to see who has the content.. and then go to that app.

Same exact issue... and a first world problem.

 

[SpaceBus]

Maybe the market has spoken in certain demographics?I personally know only 1 person with a bev. I've never seen one in my town of 800 people. I'd be willing to bet less than 1% of the people I know would want bev or afford one for thar matter. I'm not against the technology. It's great if it truly pollute less. I just think diversity wins when it comes to energy and no 1 type should be forced or outlawed or mandated

Ah, you are starting to realize that it is not the consumer that dictates the "free market". The government doesn't have to force any energy source, and never has before. Standard Oil convinced the US military to switch to oil from coal, thus everything else followed, no regulations or mandates outside of the military. Fossil fuels are simply becoming unprofitable, regardless of how many people you personally know. The 2035 "mandates" are just virtue signaling, most automakers will have already abandoned fossil fuels by 2035. There will be energy diversity, it just won't include many fossil fuels. Remember, many companies are investigating liquid biofuels as a niche fuel. Porsche would be the most notable company.

 

[begreen]

lol... agreed!

At some point, even the far right will realize it's silly to argue against a vehicle you can just plug in when you get home at night, versus having to worry about getting to the gas station on your morning commute.

Figured that out with our first Volt. I have never publicly charged our 2nd gen Volt.