M55C Insert - No OAK, No Power, No Smoke

[BradH70]

Well, so since I installed the M55 in our living room fireplace, I have wondered if we would get smoke in the house if power was lost while the stove was running. I was walking the dog down the driveway last night (this takes a while cause he only has 3 legs) and half way down the driveway, the driveway lights went out. I thought at first the wife was going to make me sleep outside with the dog, but she would never make the dog sleep outside all night. Then I realized that none of the neighbors had power either. It's gets really dark really fast when EVERYONE shuts their lights off at the same time! Now it hits me -- the stove was running! All I can imagine is a house full of smoke. So the 3 legged dog and I run back to the house as fast as HE can. Go in the house and.... oh, no smoke, not even a whiff! Only the smell of the candles that my wife just lit.

As good as this is, and it does give me a piece of mind now that the exhaust vent is working properly even when the fan is not running, I was kind of hoping for an even better reason to install the OAK. After reading all the positive results for OAK's I'm on a mission to get one installed on our stove now. Smoke in the house would have definitely sped up the process.

There is a strong draft that comes down the steps when the stove is running and it almost feels like cold air is being pulled through the gaps around the pull-down attic stairs. More investigating needs to be done, but I suspect this would not be happening with an OAK.

 

[smoke show]

I thought at first the wife was going to make me sleep outside with the dog, but she would never make the dog sleep outside all night.

:lol: :lol:

There is a strong draft that comes down the steps when the stove is running and it almost feels like cold air is being pulled through the gaps around the pull-down attic stairs. More investigating needs to be done, but I suspect this would not be happening with an OAK.

I agree.

 

[Eatonpcat]

Well, so since I installed the M55 in our living room fireplace, I have wondered if we would get smoke in the house if power was lost while the stove was running. I was walking the dog down the driveway last night (this takes a while cause he only has 3 legs) and half way down the driveway, the driveway lights went out. I thought at first the wife was going to make me sleep outside with the dog, but she would never make the dog sleep outside all night. Then I realized that none of the neighbors had power either. It's gets really dark really fast when EVERYONE shuts their lights off at the same time! Now it hits me -- the stove was running! All I can imagine is a house full of smoke. So the 3 legged dog and I run back to the house as fast as HE can. Go in the house and.... oh, no smoke, not even a whiff! Only the smell of the candles that my wife just lit.

As good as this is, and it does give me a piece of mind now that the exhaust vent is working properly even when the fan is not running, I was kind of hoping for an even better reason to install the OAK. After reading all the positive results for OAK's I'm on a mission to get one installed on our stove now. Smoke in the house would have definitely sped up the process.

There is a strong draft that comes down the steps when the stove is running and it almost feels like cold air is being pulled through the gaps around the pull-down attic stairs. More investigating needs to be done, but I suspect this would not be happening with an OAK.

Classic

 

[BradH70]

That is what I thought as well. Just natural convection of hot and cold air. But, there does seem to be a good bit of cold air being pulled out of the attic around the plywood cover of the pull-down attic stairs. I'm going to try to find time to make an insulated cover this weekend and see if that helps. Something I should have done years ago just to mitigate the heat loss through that opening.

 

[nailed_nailer]

Brad,

Easy to test for the draft.

With stove running stabilized. (carefully) Hold a candle flame near where you suspect the draft to originate from.
You should be able to observe the flame being pushed/pulled sideways in relation to the draft.

Now shut off the (now that you know self venting) stove for a while and re-do the candle test.

If the flame is not pulled sideways like it was before then you know the stove draw is causing the draft.

If no change then you need to find another excuse to get the OAK.

You could do the same thing with a smoke stick or a sandalwood (pick your flavor) incense stick.
Observe the smoke to see the draft (or not).

---Nailer---

 

[BradH70]

Brad,

Easy to test for the draft.

With stove running stabilized. (carefully) Hold a candle flame near where you suspect the draft to originate from.
You should be able to observe the flame being pushed/pulled sideways in relation to the draft.

Now shut off the (now that you know self venting) stove for a while and re-do the candle test.

If the flame is not pulled sideways like it was before then you know the stove draw is causing the draft.

If no change then you need to find another excuse to get the OAK.

You could do the same thing with a smoke stick or a sandalwood (pick your flavor) incense stick.
Observe the smoke to see the draft (or not).

---Nailer---

Thanks Nailer, I will give this a try.

Just as an FYI, my neighbors house is quite similar to mine. He has a wood stove in his basement and before he installed an OAK, he was experiencing a similar phenomenon with the draft coming down the steps from the second floor. He could not keep the room over his garage warm enough to eliminate the need for oil furnace support. He now has an OAK installed (and a new stove a beautiful Yotul F600) and it pretty much eliminated that draft.

And I still think that making an insulated box to cover the attic stairs will help to mitigate heat loss.

 

[flynfrfun]

I'm sure you are getting some from there as it will pull the cold air from the easiest place. But, I get a "river" of cold air flowing down my stairwell. Standing up, I can feel the "river" of warm air going upstairs. Natural convection. My biggest problem is the river of warm air gets caught up in my stairwell skylight and doesn't make it upstairs very well from there. I really am beginning to dislike skylights. They let the sun shine in and heat up the house in the summer and let a lot of warm air escape in the winter. Seemed like a nice touch when I bought the house, but really, they are just an energy waster.

 

[BradH70]

No sky light, but I could say the same for the air flow. River of hot air up high and if you lay down on the steps, a river of cold air coming down.

And you have an OAK correct? I think you posted pictures of your install in a similar thread last winter. And you have a fancy way of connecting the OAK from outside of the doghouse?

 

[flynfrfun]

Yes, I have an OAK. Nothing fancy to hook it up, but I did have to do some thinking to make it so that I could connect/disconnect when I pull the stove out. Basically, I have a hole cut thru the wall behind the stove. The OAK 3" pipe attaches to a dryer vent termination with a 3-4" adapter. The adapter just pushes onto the dryer vent termination and stays via friction. When removing my OAK, I unscrew the termination from the exterior wall of the house. Pull the OAK outside just enough to disconnect it from the termination. Then the adapter and OAK pipe are free from the termination and I can pull them inside the house as I slide the stove forward. If you want I could take some pics.

If I had a masonry fireplace with vertical venting of the OAK, I'd probably have to come up with a way of having enough slack in the OAK piping so that I could pull the stove out all the way before disconnecting. Or in that case, I probably wouldn't even need to disconnect it.

 

[BradH70]

Hi flynfrfun,

I would love to see some pics. I was thinking of doing something similar, but I have a masonry FP and would hate to cut a hole through the outside bricks. I am also conjuring up a way to use the clean out and some how tie it to the extra (unused) flue I have access to in the basement.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I'm sure you are getting some from there as it will pull the cold air from the easiest place. But, I get a "river" of cold air flowing down my stairwell. Standing up, I can feel the "river" of warm air going upstairs. Natural convection. My biggest problem is the river of warm air gets caught up in my stairwell skylight and doesn't make it upstairs very well from there. I really am beginning to dislike skylights. They let the sun shine in and heat up the house in the summer and let a lot of warm air escape in the winter. Seemed like a nice touch when I bought the house, but really, they are just an energy waster.

When we were looking for a new place a four years ago I told the Realtor we were dealing with that if they attempted to show us a house with built in leaks they were on the outside looking in.

He asked what I meant, I said, any house with skylights and the fewer the chimneys the better.

 

[flynfrfun]

I'll say AMEN!! to that Smokey. This is our first house, all in all it's been good. We lucked out on some things we didn't even think about. Like having a right hand turn out of the subdivision makes a huge difference in getting out in the morning. I wouldn't want to live on the other side of that road trying to make a left...it would be a nightmare at times.

I think I can reduce the inefficiency of the skylight if I install a skylight cover. It's basically a window shade mounted onto the opening of the skylight. Not as good as insulation, but should keep the hot air from freely flowing up into the skylight.