Naked flex pipe runs ~ $400 / 25 ft + $200-250 for wrap, so about the same price as Insulflex, but, apparently, there have been price increases. $585 was the price on a 25 ft Insulflex kit when I got it. $450 would be a silly good deal. 
Mineral Wool (Roxul) vs. Kaowool for smoke shelf cavity
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I agree, from what I've seen it's a very good product, and prepackaged with insulation is a big deal for me. I do not want to be struggling trying to stuff something up the flue with an insulation blanket strapped to it with zip ties or other such things.
I found out today that my order ships today, so it's all good. Hopefully it'll be here by next Friday at the latest, by then my painting will be done and new storms installed and hopefully even the new wood shed built.
steve
I found out today that my order ships today, so it's all good. Hopefully it'll be here by next Friday at the latest, by then my painting will be done and new storms installed and hopefully even the new wood shed built.
steve
Den said:Naked flex pipe runs ~ $400 / 25 ft + $200-250 for wrap, so about the same price as Insulflex, but, apparently, there have been price increases. $585 was the price on a 25 ft Insulflex kit when I got it. $450 would be a silly good deal.
Plus the stainless netting.
I think one of the considerations why Roxul is more "fire retardant" is due to the density of the product over traditional fiberglass which has it's purpose, This is just not the ideal application for fiberglass. Looking at mhrischuk's picture gives me an idea of the density of Roxul. I didn't see it a the local Lowe's but it's what I will be purchasing for this application.joefrompa said:
No paranoia my friend, just your conscience and better judgement at work. I agree with you that a block off plate or something that insulates the spun fibers from free floating in the room should be of a compulsory design.Loco Gringo said:
nice job and thanks for the pictures.mhrischuk said:
BTW, what is that flex? it looks like it has insulation sandwiched between two flexible steel liners??! I've never seen that before.
I understand a block off plate isn't needed for MORE insulation but you might want to consider the fibers coming free, maybe you can spray it with some high temp black or something as this might "seal" the fibers to the batt.
Just a thought.
Den said:
What's inulflex? is that what mhrischuk is showing in his picture?
Edit: in all my travels so far this is new to me and seems to be a great alternative to what you guys mentioned labor and price wise. However there's always guys who want a particular liner design.
Magnaflex makes it. Yes it's a pre-insulated liner with an outer aluminum flex. It's also $3-$400 cheaper than buying all of the seperate stuff and building it up.
mhrischuk said:
Speaking of insulflex, I received my order yesterday after much waiting. Unfortunately it was not packaged very well and after UPS got done with it the cap was damaged and the pipe ends were pretty pinched. I'm surprised the carton held together, it was clearly squished on one corner and most of the box flaps were ripped and torn. The straps that were put on it were pretty much useless, not sure how the contents managed to stay inside. I would not recommend the supplier I bought mine through.
However, it's not only cheaper in kit form it's got to be much easier to handle versus the liners you have to insulate with the blanket and clamps. Also, it's won't be a pita to squeeze up through the chimney either.
steve
You should not have accepted the delivery. This is how mine arrived... FedEx
I also got this notice before it arrived..
I also got this notice before it arrived..
mhrischuk said:
Yeah, well UPS didn't get a signature so it's kind of not my problem. I notified the seller that it happened and then videotaped the opening of the mangled carton.
Didn't have an option on accepting it, UPS abandoned it at my front door, Magnaflex didn't get signature delivery.
Any rate, it is what it is, but looks nothing like what yours looks like...you must live very close to where it was shipped from.
The email you reference actually arrived at or after the package did...haha, the shipping notice and return policy usually arrive before the package not after.
I've had lots of problems with UPS, they brutalize everything they touch, but I don't have an option on returning this unless I postpone the install what's likely to be another week.
steve a
Maybe you can raise hell and have them send you a whole new set and have them send a call tag to pick up the damaged goods.
mhrischuk said:
Gonna try that option. Tensions a bit thick round here today, liner arrived mistreated and weather seems to be slipping away....eek!
Anyway, here's the vid of the box opening....this is where / how the carton was left by UPS.
mhrischuk said:Make that call while you're angry. It adds a bit of urgency to the matter
Two emails with video url sent, their 'customer support' doesn't always have a queue so I haven't called yet, but their audio response says send email for fastest response. If I don't hear from them by noonish CST I'll start calling and bitching.
Maybe it's just me but I don't think someone should have to substandard shipping and damaged product. UPS is notorious for destroying product and that's why I quit using them years ago...they ruined some valuable things and then tried to claim because they were self-packaged they didn't have to honor the insurance.
As far as I'm concerned this is an issue between magnaflex and wholesalenow.com versus UPS. All I want is what I paid for and in undamaged condition.
thx
steve
Let's just hope they don't remedy the situation by sending out oval connectors
Good idea with the vid. It looked like the carrier saw the size and used it for stacking real heavy boxes on it, I guess it took up too much room in the truck, Gorillas.
Good idea with the vid. It looked like the carrier saw the size and used it for stacking real heavy boxes on it, I guess it took up too much room in the truck, Gorillas.
Mine arrived a bit pinched on 1 end. . .same type of "drop off" courtesy of FedEx. It was mostly just the outer soft layer that deformed. . .1 end is usually cut during install to get optimal length anyhow. If you're in a hurry, you might be able to use the pipe and just have them send you a new cap, then you could proceed with the install. . .just bag the top until it's capped.
What is strange is the email that I posted earlier from them says...
As far as I'm concerned, wholesalenow is totally responsible regardless. You should insist on new product... period.
As far as I'm concerned, wholesalenow is totally responsible regardless. You should insist on new product... period.
They responded that they would replace the product or full refund if necessary and apologized.
I made an alternate suggestion that seems to have passed muster....honor the old pricing structure of $453 and I'll take responsibility for it. Since the tubing isn't punctured I'm not worried about it. The appliance adapter sleeve is undamaged and the flashing is ok. I know there will be extra length on the kit to cut off because this is a 20' kit and my install will take a maximum of 15.5'. The cap isn't 'pretty' but who's going to see it?
In the end I guess it worked out ok
Steve A
I made an alternate suggestion that seems to have passed muster....honor the old pricing structure of $453 and I'll take responsibility for it. Since the tubing isn't punctured I'm not worried about it. The appliance adapter sleeve is undamaged and the flashing is ok. I know there will be extra length on the kit to cut off because this is a 20' kit and my install will take a maximum of 15.5'. The cap isn't 'pretty' but who's going to see it?
In the end I guess it worked out ok
Steve A
Benchwrench said:Let's just hope they don't remedy the situation by sending out oval connectors
Good idea with the vid. It looked like the carrier saw the size and used it for stacking real heavy boxes on it, I guess it took up too much room in the truck, Gorillas.
Oval connectors...lol. I always do a video when you get something like this where the situation has gone wrong somewhere. Otherwise it's your word against theirs and that means a stalemate. If you have video evidence that cannot be refuted it very quickly can change people's minds...lol.
steve
RK05 said:
Convection (air movement) is a much more efficient method for thermal transfer than conduction (diffusion). That means your money is much better spend sealing all the drafts causing air movement, lesser returns achieved by improving "R" value. It certainly wont hurt to super insulate that smoke shelf, but there is a point of diminishing return. There are so many other areas of the house incurring greater thermal transfer though conduction that I doubt a super-duper "R" value at that one location will matter much.
Case in point, a good double pain, Argon filled window has an "R" value of less than 4, and there is lots of glass surface area in a typical home. How much help are you going to get by getting an R value of 100 in the relatively tiny surface area of that smoke box? But sealing the draft certainly should help a lot. Just my 1 cents worth.
fire_man said:RK05 said:
Convection (air movement) is a much more efficient method for thermal transfer than conduction (diffusion). That means your money is much better spend sealing all the drafts causing air movement, lesser returns achieved by improving "R" value. It certainly wont hurt to super insulate that smoke shelf, but there is a point of diminishing return. There are so many other areas of the house incurring greater thermal transfer though conduction that I doubt a super-duper "R" value at that one location will matter much.
Case in point, a good double pain, Argon filled window has an "R" value of less than 4, and there is lots of glass surface area in a typical home. How much help are you going to get by getting an R value of 100 in the relatively tiny surface area of that smoke box? But sealing the draft certainly should help a lot. Just my 1 cents worth.
well said...and as I've said before, window manufacturers who like to talk about how much people will save with their replacement units are blowing a lot of hot air.
steve
I actually did replace all of my windows, fully knowing the minimal benefit of the improved "R" value. But the drafts with the leaky old gaskets were horrible, requiring wearing a coat while typing on the computer I am presently using located next to a window. The new window no longer required the coat - it was amazing, and it was colder last winter. So I think if the window seals responsible for preventing draft are good, don't waste money on new windows unless the old ones are single pane.
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