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More question from the trailer guy with the new F3 Jotul

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by JPapiPE, Jun 11, 2008.

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  1. JPapiPE

    JPapiPE New Member

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    I bought this blue Jotul F3Cb from this guy on craig's list. He had posted a photo of it and offered to deliver it for $50 (55 miles, one way) I talked him down from $1000 to $900 and noticed the new prices were around $2300. This stove is immaculate and only 5 years old and has only had about 4 cords burned in it. He was a very likable fellow, the seller that is, and claimed that he and his wife used it mostly for decoration. I believe him as the door gasket is still whitish in places. The stove is good sized from the out side but when i looked at the firebox I was disappointed in that it looked so small. My mobile home is about 1100 sq. Ft and not well insulated. I read the specs. on the stove before buying it and it claims to be able to heat 1300 sq. ft. and says it will burn up to seven hours. The room that I intend to place it in is about 20'X19'. I had to buy 750 gallons of K-1 last winter and kept the thermostat on 60 and froze. This large room is about the farthist from the furnace and has the thermostat in it, so the furnace was always kicking on to heat this area. The other rooms closer to the furnace are overheated by this set up. I plan to move the thermostat to the overheated rooms and heat the big room with this new stove. Did I buy too small a stove? I'm disabled, so home most of the time, so feeding it is not a problem.
    Any feedback would be appreciated. thanks Joe

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  2. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    I burn a F3 in a thousand sq. ft. uninsulated basement office/shop all winter. It'll heat your place. Packed with good dry hardwood it will have a few coals left after five or six hours but it really needs regular feedings every three or four hours.

    Split your wood small so it is easier to pack more in the little firebox.
  3. Carl

    Carl New Member

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    You did ok in my book. I owned and burned a J3 for 18 years heating a 1000 sq ft house in norther Michigan and it would totally heat the house. The small firebox was fine for me and it always had coals left in the morning to start the new fire with. Our house is well insulated but I think it will do a good job of heating your trailer. I think they are moble home approved too and should serve you well. Most important thing is to burn dry seasoned wood for the best burns and least creosote buildup. It may take a month or two getting used to it but after the learning curve you will be happily surprised.

    We wanted to upgrade so sold our Jotul 3 for 400 bucks and it looked very nice yet. We purchased a quadrafire Yosemite which has about the same size firebox on it and intend to heat totally with it since propane is so high. They are nice stoves and if I hadn't gotten such a deal on the one we bought I may have went with another Jotul.

    Good luck with it and keep us informed as to how it works out.
  4. RedRanger

    RedRanger New Member

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    So sad: bigger firebox, smaller fire. too bad!!
  5. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    The F3CB is a nice little stove, but your concerns are reasonable. The first issue to check is whether it is mobile home approved. It doesn't have an outside air kit which is usually required for mobile home installations. Ask your local inspector about this.

    As to size, well it's a 1 cu ft firebox. The little stove can kick out the heat, but consumes its fuel quickly. That means frequent feedings.
  6. myzamboni

    myzamboni Minister of Fire

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    It'll easily heat your space. I just finished my first season with mine and it is an incredibly easy stove to use.
  7. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Maybe just a wee bit of difference in heating load between Silicon Valley, CA and Maine, no?
  8. JBinKC

    JBinKC Feeling the Heat

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    Man have that stove gone up in price since I looked at it. You should be fine especially if you beef up your attic insulation some in your house.
  9. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

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    I am almost positive that mobile home installations require an OAK (at least here they do). You may want to check your local codes for that. I'm not sure about your stove having an OAK kit available. I would sure check on it.
  10. JPapiPE

    JPapiPE New Member

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    Thanks to all that posted replies to my query about the efficacy of the Jotul F3 in an 1100 sg.ft., underinsulated mobile home environment. I dont' have a chimney and have a metal low sloped pitched roof (maybe 5 on 12 pitch), with a corrigated surface. I am disabled on a social security pension and live alone.So i don't have a lot of disposable income. I need the cheapest method for a chimney. I looked at metal bestos prices on the web and was appalled at the prices. Fuel prices in my area are $5 for k-1 and propane. They were $3 /gallon last year. I do have some wood burning experience as I burned wood for 9 years exclusively with a Jotul small combie and later at another place I had the larger #4 combie. I may be calling these stoves by their wrong names, but the stoves had look of iron faced Druids...so maybe that will help.

    My F3 has a back heat shield and i was planning to run another metal heat shield over the back wall with a 1 air space between the wall and metal. I guess i'll have to buy a ready made hearth. I need advice on what to do for a chimney. The roof accessories for the metal bestos will not contour to a corrigated roof, and i have not had any quotes for a simple masonry chimney made out of concrete blocks with a clay flue liner. I think the price would scare me.

    I was a master carpenter and structural engineer before i got hurt, so I'm very handy but not strong enough to dig a footing hole for a chimney. The frost in this area permeates to 5 feet, which would mean a 6' deep hole for a footing...Plus I think it may be very close to the septic connections. I've thought of just running metal bestos pipe up through the metal roof with a tight and accurate cut and just hammering down the surrounding roof as close to flat as I can get and using some high elasticity caulking to fill the gap. N.P. 2 urethane is a 2 part caulking rated to stretch 4 times it's positon before breeching.

    One last question for now. As I have looked at the specs i have downloaded from the web regarding the F3. It shows maximum height for chimneys as a minimum of 3Ft above the roof unless the chimney is 10' or closer to the house ridge, in which case the chimney must extend 2' above the ridge. Is this correct? My training in carpentry has never been so bysantine and we always went by the 2' above the ridge rule ...no matter where the chimney was located. And what is a trailer kit? I don't understand this. Combustibles are combustibles.
    Thanks again, Joe

    P.S. to one of the moderators that has Mark twain quotes in his messages...If I may be allowed to add to his MT quotes: Twain was once quoted as saying " Never trust a man that can only spell a word one way"and he is also credited for the malapropism of" one never knows, do one" I like that one the best.
  11. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Woodbutcher says they just picked up an F500 for $1679 at Preston Trading Post. For $2300 you should be able to get an F600, enameled.
  12. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Have you confirmed that this stove is legal for use in your home? Normally a stove in a mobile home requires an outside air kit and must be bolted down to the hearth. I think you'll note the lack of instructions with this stove for this type of installation. If you check out the next larger stove, the F400's manual, you'll find specific instructions on page 7 for installation in a mobile home. However, if your local inspector and insurance company give it their blessings in writing, you are good to go.

    If you want to save some money, you could build your own hearth for the stove. The premade ones are not that cheap unless you can find one on sale. It's worth asking about. But otherwise, a homemade one that meets the stove requirements will work fine.
  13. savageactor7

    savageactor7 Minister of Fire

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    JPapiPE I think you'll be happy with that stove cause you;ll be warm when you up and about...ya really don't need a whole lot of heat when your sleeping though. Like brother Bart says... spilt small so you can load up the stove more it'll work out better for you.
  14. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

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    Joe - if you are refering to the OAK kit, it stands for Outside Air Kit, as BG stated. This is an adapter that fits on the back of a stove that allows the stove to pull combustion air from outside (v.s inside). It is not specifically a "trailer Kit", but many local codes DO require this for a trailer (mobile home) installation.

    Edit: and not all stoves have provisions for an OAK.
  15. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    The F3 isn't mobile home approved and does not have an outside air kit available. The reason for the outside air kit requirement for mobile homes is that they are more tightly constructed than stick built homes and the intake air required for a wood stove will suck all of the oxygen out of the living space in your last few heartbeats. And creates negative pressure in the home overcoming the chimney draw.
  16. myzamboni

    myzamboni Minister of Fire

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    BG, I don't even come close to burning full loads and I can easily get the house too warm (and I never 24/7 burn). I did take location into consideration when I made my statement. ;-) .
  17. JPapiPE

    JPapiPE New Member

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    My mobile home is anything but air tight. It's 1100 sq feet and I used 750 gallons of K-1 last winter and froze. The original trailer size is 624 sq ft and has several stick built additions bringing the total area to 1100 sq ft. The trailer was built in 1968, way before worries of oil prices, insulation and tight construction were on people minds. It also has a trussed pitched roof over the whole thing with a pull down attic stairway with gable vents in the attic. It is loosely consructed so I don't think I'll suffocate. There are no inspectors in this hick town and i don't intend to alert my insurance co of my intention to install a wood stove, as I'm already paying $760/ yr on a trailer valued at $70,000, with no prior claims.

    My biggest worry is the small firebox and having to feed the damn thing every 2-3 hours. Plus how to waterproof the stack going out of the roof as my roof is corrigated metal (no flat surfaces). I don't mean to be arrogant, but I lived with wood heat for 9 years and did 5 or 6 installations of wood stoves during my carpentry career, Including the 2 stoves In my own houses. I just followed tolerances and instructions and to my knowledge none of my installs burned down any houses

    However I shall defer to the judgement of this forum if it generally thinks I made a bad judgement buying the jotul F3. I did buy the stove and now own it, but I guess I could try to sell it.

    So please be honest and sincere and if I made a mistake in buying this stove ,tell me...and well I'll just sell it and get another.Many thanks to the members of this forum.And thanks for your patience, Joe P

    P.S: I just can't see myself splitting firewood into smaller pieces to be able to fill this stove up as several members said, Plus I don't even know if there is any seasoned hardwood to be had around here. I alway buy green wood in the summer and let it sizzle in the sun for 3-4 months and that has always worked fine for me. If it's a little wet so i have to clean the chimney once or twice a year. Once one gets a good bed of coals going you could almost burn anything. I do practice 2 hot burns a day to reduce creosote build up
  18. savageactor7

    savageactor7 Minister of Fire

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    Well if it's any comfort I feel your pain as far as splitting smaller goes...I wasn't use to that either but basically that what will work the best...and leave a window cracked if you stay with that stove. Good luck.
  19. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    Sounds like time to go to work on the best wall and floor protection and how to handle sealing the stack on that roof. My only experience roofing was swinging a mop on a hot roofing crew in the sixties so I defer to others to talk about that.

    What I can tell you is that to get the best heat performance from the least amount of wood the new EPA stoves depend on good dry wood. The reason will become evident to you the first time that lil F3 crosses a surface temp of around 450 degrees. It will start burning not only the wood but the smoke/gases coming off the wood up at the top of the firebox. Gonna be something like you never saw in old stoves. They recover most of the fuel that used to go up your chimney as smoke and keep it in your house as heat. Now, to do this they can't have a bunch of steam mixed in with those gases. The moisture in the gases won't let them ignite and up, up and away they go to plaster themselves on the walls of your chimney. Sure you can clean the chimney til the cows come home but it ain't gonna get that heat back that you lost and that wood you wasted. Burn good wood right and you ain't gonna believe how clean that pipe stays compared to your old stoves.

    BTW this was not something the EPA ever cared about or intended to happen. It came about as a little surprise side benefit of the technology stove manufacturers used to comply with the EPA emissions mandates.

    On the split size issue, right where the stove sits right now, try filling it with different size pieces of wood. You will quickly see what we are talking about when we say it is easier to get more wood in it in smaller splits. And this is without a 1,200 degree fire toasting your fingers while you try to pack it in there.
  20. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Check your PMs, (private message). Although I like this little stove, I think you could spend less and do better regarding heat and burntimes with a new stove like an Englander 13NC. It has closer clearances too. I had the 3CB for a year and had to feed it every 2-4 hrs. When the temps got below freezing, it couldn't handle the house by itself, but our house is 2000 sq ft.

    The issue of getting the pipe well sealed as it goes through the roof is covered in a few threads like this one:
    http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/9369/
    http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/13091/
    http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/9110/

    PM Hogwildz about it too. He used to do roofing.

    No problem with asking a lot of questions. We'd like to see you safe and warm next winter.
  21. JPapiPE

    JPapiPE New Member

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    I guess I have looked before I leaped with my purchase of the Jotul F3. As I said I paid $900 for the stove in almost new condition. Only 4 cords burned in it. Many posters have beenadvised me; to point out that a mobile home needs an OAK, which the F3 doesn't have. I should point out that my mobile originally 14X56 has been sliced longitudinally ( the 56' way) and an 8'stick built addition has been added to to the long lenghth of the trailer. Also one end of the trailers original ends has been removed to construct a 12'X12' Office for me. Then the whole works have been covered with a sheet metal roof supported with 24"O.C. trusses and I have a pull down attic stairway which I can scope out insulation situation, which, alas, there hardy any. The metal roof is only supported by strapping nailed to the trussed roof system making it treacherous to walk or work on. But it does have attic gable end vents (real wood ones)

    In my humble opinion I hypothesize that I can get away with a stove without the OAK, as my home is not an airtight closed in trailer box ( built in 1968) and not all that air tight as i burned 750 gallons of k-1 last year in an 1100 sq ft residence. I have half a brain (maybe only 3/8) but am a master carpenter and structural Engineer by trade, before my accident which has left me disabled. I'm also a vet from a long ago war and have seen some terrible things, so the suffocation issue doesn't bother me as much as the having to split already split wood into miniscule pieces, which will envelope my life, even more, once the cold weather comes.

    Some members have suggested that I sell the stove as it takes too much feeding and extra spliting of already delivered split logs and others say I'm doomed without an OAK type stove. I would like to heat this whole house with a stove and am used to being close to a big stove throwing off too much heat in order to heat he whole house. Thes area always became the gathering place of the house. Being close to a hot stove is just Tee shirt weather and you get used to it real quick as it's not the oppressive humid heat.

    Some members have said I should look into the Englander, specifically the 13NC, which is sold by HomeDepot and Lowes. They appear to made of steel boiler plate, instead of cast iron. I'm not saying that they are not a great stove...only making an observation.


    I know I have probably made many posts in the last few days, but I am only seeking knowledge from the group, and i am stuck with this $900 dinosaur of an F3 Jotul that needs filling every 2 hours and furthermore extra effort is required to make splinters out of already processed, ready to burn split cordwood. I hope your patience has not run out as I only discovered this forum after I had bought the Jotul F3.

    Please feel free to give suggestions, even though I realize it might involve the selling at a loss of this beautiful F3. That's life and it could always be worse. The Army has mde me resilient, resolute and adaptable.

    Always thankful for what advice that I receive from the members of this forum. Joe
  22. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

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    Joe, you may very well be correct in saying that you could get away without an OAK, many have, but I doubt that you will find many on the forum that would condone it. Much in the same way that you could bust out a window and run the stove pipe out with a tin shroud and probably "get away" with it. Its been done, lots of times, but probably not a suggestion that you will see from this group. We care too much!

    Find the next guy in line that wants a little F3 for $900 and sell it to him. Take that same $900 and buy a NC13 with OAK (or whatever choice of stove that suites your needs) and you will be rewarded greatly. IF you plan on getting this inspected, or IF you plan on getting this install insured, it may make all the difference in the world. The F3 is a neat little stove, but it doesn't seam to hold the characteristics that you need or are looking for. You bought it for $900, somebody else may as well.

    And above ALL else, be safe. Its not worth harming you, your family or the family next door.

    This is just one fellow wood burners opinion. :coolsmile:
  23. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

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    If his dwelling is listed as a "trailer" or "mobile" - code (aka-law) states he does. As a master carpenter, I am sure he understands that most code is written for a reason (whether or not you agree with it is another thing).
  24. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    I think the F3 is going to do fine. You are there most of the time for feedings and we aren't talking about cutting everything down to toothpick size. As to price, you got around a $1,600 - $1,800 stove for $900. You didn't get bit.
  25. JPapiPE

    JPapiPE New Member

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    Thanks men and women of this forum. I have been walking around with my head hung low these past couple of days feeling like chump. I did call the seller in an attempt for him to take back the stove , but he is incummunicato on the subject. It's only money and as we know money comes and goes. I'll get what I need in the end, even if I have to lose some couple of hundred bucks. I guess it's just my personallity to try to address each problem as it comes up. But a couple of hundred never made or broke anyone. I'm a lazy burner and can't be bothered to rechop alrerady chopped wood. I'm like that popeil guy on TV who's claimis set it and forget it. I can laugh at myself for my impulsiveness. I look at it as a lesson in life...."to slow down, do your research first...and then buy, and if i make mistakes along the way ...so be it. I am human and that definition gives me the right to fail. But this time I'll get it right.
    Joe
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