Most entertaining secondary burn?

[FireTalker]

I tried to post on this previously, but didn't do a sufficiently good job of describing the recommendations I'm seeking, so I'm trying again.

I'm looking for the best overall combination of viewing area and secondary burn visuals. I've spent time looking at videos on YouTube, and the non-cats seem to be more interesting, and the fireplaces and inserts like the Montpelier seem to offer a better view of the flames--are these fair conclusions?

It will be a 'from scratch' installation, and I have a few options in terms of location in the house that allow basically allow any size firebox.

If my highest priorities are the view of the flames, secondary burn, and overall tinkering experience, what would people suggest looking into? I'd probably prefer a stove, but the viewing windows on the fireplaces and inserts are more appealing.

(My other question is why don't stove makers offer the larger windows too?

Thanks in advance. GREAT site!

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Welcome to the forum FireTalker.

You have some good questions. In order for others to give better answers, perhaps you could describe what you are trying to heat. How big is your home? What is the layout like?

It also sounds as if you are more interested in watching the flame rather than heating the home. Is this correct? Hopefully more will chime in especially if you give more information.

Good luck to you.

 

[heffergm]

Tinkering + secondaries (when successfully tinkered) = VC Encore NC.

It's definitely not a set it and
forget it type stove, although now that I know
how it behaves it's a lot closer. Some people hate them, I decided to try and
tame one and I quite love it.

If you want a truly pretty stove a hearthstone or fireview is probably the way to go

 

[mikepinto65]

Tinkering + secondaries (when successfully tinkered) = VC Encore NC.

It's definitely not a set it and
forget it type stove, although now that I know
how it behaves it's a lot closer. Some people hate them, I decided to try and
tame one and I quite love it.

If you want a truly pretty stove a hearthstone or fireview is probably the way to go

I've wondered how it would be considering its a downdraft....have you ever posted video of it in action? I notice VC has a new website up and running, pretty fancy...maybe they'll start investing some $ in getting a good reputation again.

 

[jfournier]

If you're not too concerned about heating your house the Montpelier is a fine stove for you...you have to have very well seasoned wood if you want to enjoy the fire...

Personally I wouldn't buy any VC product right now, as even getting spare parts is a big pain, and takes 6 weeks...I had to order a brick that I broke, and it took 5 weeks, then I picked it up and it was already broken, and I had to wait another month!

Also, even if right now you don't care so much about heating ability, I would think at some point you might start to care, and then you'd likely be disappointed by the Montpelier (unless you have a small area to heat, like <1000 SF)

 

[jcjohnston]

Lopi Freedom is a big viewing door and heats a large area, burns long and clean, no need to mess with the burn rate but you sure can if you want to.

 

[Nicholas]

Temp cast masonry heater, with the secondary burn in the bake oven, know as the "tower of Fire"

 

[Bigg_Redd]

I tried to post on this previously, but didn't do a sufficiently good job of describing the recommendations I'm seeking, so I'm trying again.

I'm looking for the best overall combination of viewing area and secondary burn visuals. I've spent time looking at videos on YouTube, and the non-cats seem to be more interesting, and the fireplaces and inserts like the Montpelier seem to offer a better view of the flames--are these fair conclusions?

It will be a 'from scratch' installation, and I have a few options in terms of location in the house that allow basically allow any size firebox.

If my highest priorities are the view of the flames, secondary burn, and overall tinkering experience, what would people suggest looking into? I'd probably prefer a stove, but the viewing windows on the fireplaces and inserts are more appealing.

(My other question is why don't stove makers offer the larger windows too?

Thanks in advance. GREAT site!

Pacific Energy Summit. Actually the Jotul F500 and F600 probably have a bigger/better window/view and secondary burn flames that are at least as interesting as anything out there. But regardless, I'm still going with the PE Summit.

 

[grommal]

In my completely unbiased opinion (see signature), I think it would be hard to beat the combination of multiple burn tubes and giant glass window that the Jotul Oslo F500 has, for producing tons of secondary flame. If maximizing the light show is what you want, just run it with the primary air a touch above fully closed. That way you get the northern lights plus a sheet of flame right behind the glass.

 

[begreen]

The Summit does put on a nice long show, but I wouldn't say it's the best light show. Stoves or inserts with rows of secondary tubes E/W provide a better show IMO. The Summit secondary burn is a zipper down the middle and then right up front of the baffle where the smoke path turns. This front edge view is blocked by the frame of the door. The visual effect is a rolling cloud with a fountain in the middle. From what I've seen, the fountains of flame are much more attractive IMO with the Castine or Oslo than with the PE stoves. And the light show from some of Morso's and Scan stoves is stunning.

That said, I would recommend getting a stove or insert for it's heating ability first. And that the Summit does very well.

 

[FireTalker]

Thank you for the help!

The house is a 60s era A-frame (no loft) with 35-foot ceilings in the great room (fans in the ceiling), and 8 foot ceilings elsewhere. Roughly 3,500 square feet. While the great room/kitchen areas are open floor plan style, the bedrooms are down a long corridor and likely will miss any real heat benefit.

The house sits on a bluff, and is subject to very strong winds throughout the year. Given the wind, relative lack of air 'tightness' to the envelope, and the tall ceilings in the living area, there isn't too much risk of being run out of the structure due to too much heat.

There is fieldstone chimney (excellent condition) in the great room, that extends 10' past the peak of the roof. The chimney has a very large double sided fireplace (50" wide by 33" deep) and substantial hearth area. The chimney apparently could be lined and used for either a stove or an insert. This is the most logical installation as it's the 'hang out' area in the house. We could also do a new installation of any kind in the sunroom, which is a 600 ft area off the kitchen.

I like the burning video I've seen of the Equinox, and the big firebox would probably be a plus, but question whether or not soapstone would be a drawback as it wouldn't be burned all the time, and thus be starting from 'cold' frequently. I worry about getting a bit too enthusiastic and cracking the stone--I have a reputation for preferring large fires in the fireplace.

My wife is OK w/ pyromania as a hobby so long as the end result is not an eyesore--she enjoys the old VC Defiant at a relative's house, although she wishes (like me) that the viewing area was as dramatic/large as what some of the inserts like the Montpelier offer.

While we have had nothing but great times with that old (10+ years) Defiant (cat), the turmoil at VC makes me somewhat cautious about investing in their current products. Which is a shame, because the Montpelier really has a great viewing window and their products in general are visual eye candy.

Is there anything else on the market by a more stable firm combining great quality with a Montpelier type big window?

Thanks again.

BTW, I already have 5+ cords of well seasoned ash that has been stored indoors for 3 years and is in outstanding condition. I'll have another 5-8 cords put up for aging and future use by Spring.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Thank you for the help!

The house is a 60s era A-frame (no loft) with 35-foot ceilings in the great room (fans in the ceiling), and 8 foot ceilings elsewhere. Roughly 3,500 square feet. While the great room/kitchen areas are open floor plan style, the bedrooms are down a long corridor and likely will miss any real heat benefit.

The house sits on a bluff, and is subject to very strong winds throughout the year. Given the wind, relative lack of air 'tightness' to the envelope, and the tall ceilings in the living area, there isn't too much risk of being run out of the structure due to too much heat.

There is fieldstone chimney (excellent condition) in the great room, that extends 10' past the peak of the roof. The chimney has a very large double sided fireplace (50" wide by 33" deep) and substantial hearth area. The chimney apparently could be lined and used for either a stove or an insert. This is the most logical installation as it's the 'hang out' area in the house. We could also do a new installation of any kind in the sunroom, which is a 600 ft area off the kitchen.

I like the burning video I've seen of the Equinox, and the big firebox would probably be a plus, but question whether or not soapstone would be a drawback as it wouldn't be burned all the time, and thus be starting from 'cold' frequently. I worry about getting a bit too enthusiastic and cracking the stone--I have a reputation for preferring large fires in the fireplace.

My wife is OK w/ pyromania as a hobby so long as the end result is not an eyesore--she enjoys the old VC Defiant at a relative's house, although she wishes (like me) that the viewing area was as dramatic/large as what some of the inserts like the Montpelier offer.

While we have had nothing but great times with that old (10+ years) Defiant (cat), the turmoil at VC makes me somewhat cautious about investing in their current products. Which is a shame, because the Montpelier really has a great viewing window and their products in general are visual eye candy.

Is there anything else on the market by a more stable firm combining great quality with a Montpelier type big window?

Thanks again.

BTW, I already have 5+ cords of well seasoned ash that has been stored indoors for 3 years and is in outstanding condition. I'll have another 5-8 cords put up for aging and future use by Spring.

If you liked the look of your VC then it's a very short side-step to a Jotul. Plus you'll get a much better flame job out of a non-cat Jotul than any cat stove.

Regardless, I'm still recommending the PE Summit.

 

[karri0n]

Thank you for the help!

The house is a 60s era A-frame (no loft) with 35-foot ceilings in the great room (fans in the ceiling), and 8 foot ceilings elsewhere. Roughly 3,500 square feet. While the great room/kitchen areas are open floor plan style, the bedrooms are down a long corridor and likely will miss any real heat benefit.

The house sits on a bluff, and is subject to very strong winds throughout the year. Given the wind, relative lack of air 'tightness' to the envelope, and the tall ceilings in the living area, there isn't too much risk of being run out of the structure due to too much heat.

There is fieldstone chimney (excellent condition) in the great room, that extends 10' past the peak of the roof. The chimney has a very large double sided fireplace (50" wide by 33" deep) and substantial hearth area. The chimney apparently could be lined and used for either a stove or an insert. This is the most logical installation as it's the 'hang out' area in the house. We could also do a new installation of any kind in the sunroom, which is a 600 ft area off the kitchen.

I like the burning video I've seen of the Equinox, and the big firebox would probably be a plus, but question whether or not soapstone would be a drawback as it wouldn't be burned all the time, and thus be starting from 'cold' frequently. I worry about getting a bit too enthusiastic and cracking the stone--I have a reputation for preferring large fires in the fireplace.

My wife is OK w/ pyromania as a hobby so long as the end result is not an eyesore--she enjoys the old VC Defiant at a relative's house, although she wishes (like me) that the viewing area was as dramatic/large as what some of the inserts like the Montpelier offer.

While we have had nothing but great times with that old (10+ years) Defiant (cat), the turmoil at VC makes me somewhat cautious about investing in their current products. Which is a shame, because the Montpelier really has a great viewing window and their products in general are visual eye candy.

Is there anything else on the market by a more stable firm combining great quality with a Montpelier type big window?

Thanks again.

BTW, I already have 5+ cords of well seasoned ash that has been stored indoors for 3 years and is in outstanding condition. I'll have another 5-8 cords put up for aging and future use by Spring.

With a house that size, you are right on the money with that Equinox idea. I wouldn't worry about the "cold start" phobia. It might take five to ten minutes longer to heat to temps that are pushing heat into the room. I do know Hearthstone stoves provide a really nice liht show, too.

It sounds like the house has a pretty great setup for a stove to heat it, and if you get a good size stove such as the Equinox, you very well might trash your thoughts of not burning all the time, and really come to enjoy not having to pay the gas/oil man to heat your whole house. Your other option for heating that large of an area is likely a blaze king, which, while a powerful heater, is a cat stove, and might not have the light show you are looking for.

 

[G-rott]

The East West stepped baffle, air induction plate in the larger morso 2110 and 3610(?) along with the large glass area of the stoves produces a really nice "show"with rolling and tumbling secondary flames. Jotul stoves also have a nice secondary effect.

These are the only stoves I've seen burn.

Good luck,

Garett

 

[FireTalker]

I'd like to thank everyone for their suggestions. I'm trying to follow up on each.

A masonry heater is a fascinating device, but it's a different direction than I'm presently looking to go. I want to tinker with a fire, and the masonry heaters are a 1-2x fires a day thing. I'm not the right owner for one of these.

The Jotul certainly has an impressive 'light show' (that's exactly the phras I was looking for). I'll go look at one in person. My initial inclination is to see if there's a similar stove that is American or at least Canadian built. Just a personal thing.

Does anyone think I would be better off starting with something like an Englander 30, or even the smaller new 17-VL? Each of these seems to have the EW secondaries, and the burn videos for the 30 and 13 are great. The reason that I ask is that they seem somewhat more 'idiot proof' in terms of their steel construction and comparatively inexpensive cost of entry. I'd feel a whole lot better learning whatever hard lessons I may have to learn on something less expensive if I could. Their relative lack of aesthetic beauty could also work in my favor--I'd have a natural excuse to step up to another stove....one that would just so happen to be bigger/nicer/more expensive. (This is how my marriage works. )

Finally, is the larger glass of an insert or fireplace (like a NZ6000) something worth considering? It seems like the consensus is to go with a freestanding stove for various reasons.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

I'd like to thank everyone for their suggestions. I'm trying to follow up on each.

A masonry heater is a fascinating device, but it's a different direction than I'm presently looking to go. I want to tinker with a fire, and the masonry heaters are a 1-2x fires a day thing. I'm not the right owner for one of these.

The Jotul certainly has an impressive 'light show' (that's exactly the phras I was looking for). I'll go look at one in person. My initial inclination is to see if there's a similar stove that is American or at least Canadian built. Just a personal thing.

Does anyone think I would be better off starting with something like an Englander 30, or even the smaller new 17-VL? Each of these seems to have the EW secondaries, and the burn videos for the 30 and 13 are great. The reason that I ask is that they seem somewhat more 'idiot proof' in terms of their steel construction and comparatively inexpensive cost of entry. I'd feel a whole lot better learning whatever hard lessons I may have to learn on something less expensive if I could. Their relative lack of aesthetic beauty could also work in my favor--I'd have a natural excuse to step up to another stove....one that would just so happen to be bigger/nicer/more expensive. (This is how my marriage works. )

Finally, is the larger glass of an insert or fireplace (like a NZ6000) something worth considering? It seems like the consensus is to go with a freestanding stove for various reasons.

I do not recommend a "starter stove." Get the one you want. Period. The End. Also, for operation the Englanders are not simpler or easier.

If it makes you feel better, Jutuls are cast in Norway and assembled in ME.

Still recommending the PE Summit.

 

[firefighterjake]

I am biased of course, but I love the viewing area and secondaries of my Jotul Oslo . . . sometimes I get the propane grill effect, sometimes I get the flickering Northern lights and sometimes I get the What-have-I-done-it-looks-like-a-portal-to-Hell-has-opened-up-in-my-woodstove effect.

That said, there are a lot of other great stoves with good viewing areas and good secondaries.

I agree with Big Redd . . . get the stove you want as long as it is sized correctly . . . and Englanders may be less expensive, but I would say they are no more complicated, simpler or bullet-proof from many of the other brands out there.

 

[heffergm]

Tinkering + secondaries (when successfully tinkered) = VC Encore NC.

It's definitely not a set it and
forget it type stove, although now that I know
how it behaves it's a lot closer. Some people hate them, I decided to try and
tame one and I quite love it.

If you want a truly pretty stove a hearthstone or fireview is probably the way to go

I've wondered how it would be considering its a downdraft....have you ever posted video of it in action? I notice VC has a new website up and running, pretty fancy...maybe they'll start investing some $ in getting a good reputation again.

Here you go. This is with Biobricks by the way, just because it's what I'm burning to get me through the rest of the winter. The trick with this stove is to get it as hot as you dare, close the bypass, then close the air down in 3 or 4 stages to avoid backpuffing. Now that I've got the hang of it it's pretty much rinse and repeat: