Moving wood furnace to garage

[ikessky]

Now that we are starting to plan our new attached garage, my wife is pushing for me to figure out a way to get the wood furnace out of the basement and into the garage. Assuming that I can even pacify the insurance company enough to do this, here are a few issues I can see. Can anyone either confirm these or provide some insight as to how I could overcome them?

1) The longest register and return grate from the furnace would be 60'. That would have to be a huge fan to push air that far and pull the return back. All the duct work would need to be insulated well to keep the air from being cold by the time it got to the back rooms. On top of this, the ducts to get into the house would have to take an immediate turn down toward the ground and I'm not sure that that's good.

2) The garage and house heating area would be ~2500 sq/ft (minus the basement area, which is currently heated with one vent and the convection off the wood furnace. From what I can find, I would need a furnace with a minimum of 100,000 BTU's. My current furnace has an advertised range of 45,000 - 105,000. I'm not sure that the PSG Caddy could even handle this as it advertises something like 105,000 BTUs. I'm thinking something like the Yukon Super Jack would be what I would need.

3) We are trying to build everything on the cheap. Even the cheapest furnace with fan would end up running me $3000. Plus, I would need to add probably close to $5000 to my building to house the furnace and some wood so I don't take room away. None of you can help me with that, I'm just whining.

I'm sure there will be more questions as this thread goes on. These are just the questions/issues off the top of my head.

 

[mikefrommaine]

Maine law makes garage installations tough. You can not open a door from the room that stores the wood boiler directly into a room that can store a car. You can build a hallway, make a room that you can only access from the outside of the garage, or you can wall off one half of a two bay garage and make it so a car can't park in the half with the wood boiler. The state is concerned that if an automobile gas tank develops a leak, the flame in the wood boiler could ignite the gas. The garage is a great site because it can make pellet loading easy, and venting is also straightforward, but you have to be prepared to lose the ability to park a car. Also, you'll have to consider make up air AND freeze protection if it's in the garage.


From

http://www.revisionenergy.com/gasifying-clean-renewable-wood-boilers.php

 

[willworkforwood]

How about keeping the furnace and getting a new wife instead? But seriously though, is the primary issue smoke? If so, how about installing a hood (assuming you don't already have one)? If not smoke, is it the mess, or critters in the wood pile? From what little I know about furnaces, you would have a tiger by the tail trying to do what you're thinking about. Our boiler is in the (unfinished) basement, so we are on common ground there. And many others have similar setups which work well, so maybe you can fix whatever problem your wife has with it.

 

[ikessky]

Well, I did ask her dad the other day if he would be willing to take her and the kids back! He said I'm stuck with them.

I have a couple issues going here. First, how they are proposing to do my project goes as such. I'm converting the current garage into a living room and we are attaching a new garage. We can get away with not pouring a frost wall/foundation if we commit to keeping the new garage above 32 degrees. I agree that it would be nice to do this with wood heat (virtually free) but see a large initial investment in doing so. Regulations in the town I live in prohibit us from using a conventional OWB.
I think her main concern is the mess in the basement, but she also is commenting on how nice it would be to get that room back for storage rather than firewood storage.
A boiler would make this whole issue a lot easier, but again, we are trying to keep the cost of everything down and I just don't think I can swing it right now. I am putting the pex into the slab just in case we would decide to do something at a later date though.

 

[willworkforwood]

Did they give you a quote for construction with a frost wall for the garage? Seems like that would be (much?) less than the $$ needed to redo your wood heat (assuming that it can be done). Regarding the mess, it is what it is, but you could "promise" to sweep/clean more often. And how about a partial or full partition in your wood storage room - half for her and half for you. Means you probably would have to stack higher, but maybe that could work for you. Then the only other thing is can your existing furnace handle the heating requirement of the new room?

 

[JustWood]

Use the garage for storage and keep the furnace in basement. No one likes to carry stored things up and down stairs anyway.
Save the cost of another chimney.
Save the cost of a furnace room.
Store stuff at ground level.
Win win

 

[ikessky]

Don't take wanting to heat the garage as a requirement to move the stove. The two projects are separate. My wife just wants the furnace out of the basement so she can have more room and less mess. And she's trying to tell me that we can get free heat for the garage if we do this. I am perfectly content to hang an overhead NG furnace to keep the garage at 34 until I want to use it.
The frost wall is unnecessary in my mind. I want to keep the garage above freezing anyway. I would save ~$4-5000 by just doing the slab.
I need to call my insurance guy and hope that he says it's just not possible regardless. If he says it is, then I'll give a call to a relative who is an HVAC guy and see what he says about the long duct runs.

 

[woodsmaster]

Don't take wanting to heat the garage as a requirement to move the stove. The two projects are separate. My wife just wants the furnace out of the basement so she can have more room and less mess. And she's trying to tell me that we can get free heat for the garage if we do this. I am perfectly content to hang an overhead NG furnace to keep the garage at 34 until I want to use it.
The frost wall is unnecessary in my mind. I want to keep the garage above freezing anyway. I would save ~$4-5000 by just doing the slab.
I need to call my insurance guy and hope that he says it's just not possible regardless. If he says it is, then I'll give a call to a relative who is an HVAC guy and see what he says about the long duct runs.

It would only cost you a few hundred dollers to rent a 8" trencher and dig a trench for a footer and probably less tha 800 for the cement. I wouldn't build a building without a footer unless it
is pole barn type construction. You dont want to heat the ground to keep it from heaving. I'd keep the furnice in the basement and save for a boiler. Then put the boiler in a shed to keep the
mess totally out of the house. I have less than $2,000 in my boiler shed and it is 12 x 14 x 12' tall. Just my opinion. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[ikessky]

Insurance guy says no way with the furnace in the garage, doesn't matter how you install it or build it. That settles that.

I'll check into the footer/foundation issue a little better. If we are going through the trouble of doing the building, I want to do it right. I think you are off on your math for the concrete though. Running it though an on-line calculator I found, I come up with 12.71 yards (128 lineal feet x 8" wide x 48" deep). If concrete is $100/yard, I'm looking at an extra $1300.

 

[woodsmaster]

Insurance guy says no way with the furnace in the garage, doesn't matter how you install it or build it. That settles that.

I'll check into the footer/foundation issue a little better. If we are going through the trouble of doing the building, I want to do it right. I think you are off on your math for the concrete though. Running it though an on-line calculator I found, I come up with 12.71 yards (128 lineal feet x 8" wide x 48" deep). If concrete is $100/yard, I'm looking at an extra $1300.

Ya it was a rough guess. Here in nw Ohio we only have to go 36 " but I'm sure your right on the 48" for Wisconson. I poured some last year and a footer mix was $93.00/ yard but has probably went up some.

 

[Morgan]

$93 a yard, nice! I paid $156 a yard last year for 3000PSI concrete. Mind you I am stuck here on PEI (a sandstone island in Atlantic Canada) so all our gravel is imported by gravel boats and barges. Really drives our concrete prices up here.

 

[ewdudley]

Insurance guy says no way with the furnace in the garage, doesn't matter how you install it or build it. That settles that.

I'll check into the footer/foundation issue a little better. If we are going through the trouble of doing the building, I want to do it right. I think you are off on your math for the concrete though. Running it though an on-line calculator I found, I come up with 12.71 yards (128 lineal feet x 8" wide x 48" deep). If concrete is $100/yard, I'm looking at an extra $1300.

After researching we came up with an insulated grade beam, which is a code-compliant alternative to a below-frost-depth footer in most all jurisdictions.

Depending on the climate, all you need is a foot of vertical two-inch foam board on the outside of the slab, and two feet of horizontal two-inch foam board running out away from the slab.

Our local inspector was aware of the technique and was able to supply the specifications for our climate here near Syracuse.

http://summerwages.blogspot.com/2010/08/forming.html

http://www.ornl.gov/sci/buildingsfoundations/handbook/section4-3.shtml See figure 4.11

 

[ikessky]

We'll see what it all ends up being once we get some solid plans and numbers. My in-laws are the contractors, but they have to make a living also, so they can't just do it for free. However, my father-in-law is insisting that we can do the concrete ourselves, as they have done countless slabs and foundations in the past. He also has a fair amount of equipment that we can use for site prep. I'll talk to him this weekend and see what he's thinking. Then it's a reassessment from the bank to see how much I can borrow and if that really fits in with what I want to be paying.

 

[nate379]

You are going to try and build it this year?? I tried that last year and I was roofing while it was snowing. Fun fun fun...

 

[woodsmaster]

Insurance guy says no way with the furnace in the garage, doesn't matter how you install it or build it. That settles that.

I'll check into the footer/foundation issue a little better. If we are going through the trouble of doing the building, I want to do it right. I think you are off on your math for the concrete though. Running it though an on-line calculator I found, I come up with 12.71 yards (128 lineal feet x 8" wide x 48" deep). If concrete is $100/yard, I'm looking at an extra $1300.

After researching we came up with an insulated grade beam, which is a code-compliant alternative to a below-frost-depth footer in most all jurisdictions.

Depending on the climate, all you need is a foot of vertical two-inch foam board on the outside of the slab, and two feet of horizontal two-inch foam board running out away from the slab.

Our local inspector was aware of the technique and was able to supply the specifications for our climate here near Syracuse.

http://summerwages.blogspot.com/2010/08/forming.html

http://www.ornl.gov/sci/buildingsfoundations/handbook/section4-3.shtml See figure 4.11

I'm not familiar with this construction method and have not seen it done around here. Hope that it works well for you.

 

[woodsmaster]

One downfall I can see to the insulated grade beam meathod would be groundhogs and such digging under your slab.

 

[ewdudley]

One downfall I can see to the insulated grade beam meathod would be groundhogs and such digging under your slab.

From my research I got the impression that it's best for northern climates where the hard freezes eliminate termites and whatnot. Also it appears to be a tried-and-true method in Scandinavian countries.

Our groundhogs seem to prefer their 'digs' down near the creek and the garden. ;-)

--ewd

 

[ikessky]

You are going to try and build it this year?? I tried that last year and I was roofing while it was snowing. Fun fun fun...

Usually when anyone in our family is roofing, we have a "family roofing day". I'm guessing that's probably what we'll end up getting. Being that there are usually 20 or so people that show up, I can probably get some other work done that same day. I'm not concerned about getting the shell up quickly. It would be the remodel and finishing that might still be taking place as the snow starts flying.