My thoughts/experience using HVAC blower to circulate air

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
Status
Not open for further replies.

CountryBoy19

Minister of Fire
Jul 29, 2010
962
Southern IN
Many people recommended against this, some even citing that it may be against code. I don't really care... if that offends you then quit reading now, but if you can swallow that then you may be interested in my experiences so far.


I have a Kozyheat Z42CD zero-clearance fireplace. For those that don't know, this fireplace has an optional ducting kit that comes with flex-duct, a register, and a register mounted blower to pull air from the fireplace which has 2 punch-outs on the top of the shield. The ducting kit really didn't look like it was #1 worth the money, and #2 going to satisfy my needs. But it did tell me one important thing, it must not be that horrible to take heat directly from the fireplace and move it throughout the house like "code" and those that mention "the code" say it is.

So being an independent man that can make decisions on my own without looking at a manual of how to live published by "big brother", I defiantly decided that I was going to duct the heat into my main air-blower system. Plus, I think it is arguable if this is even an "unsealed, solid-fuel, combustion unit" because it draws air from outdoors, and vents the exhaust outdoors, and the doors are sealed except when refueling. So IMHO, this would be classified as a sealed combustion unit and therefore the codes pertain to no HVAC return within X feet wouldn't apply.

What I did:
I took 2 sections of flex duct and connected the 2 ducts to the punch-outs, and combined them into a box-duct that runs into the HVAC air-return. This way the HVAC blower can draw the air out of the fireplace, through the HVAC units, and into the supply duct. The thermostat for the HVAC unit is in the same room as the fireplace. I then pulled the disconnect for the AC compressor unit, turned my thermostat to the "Cool" setting, and set the thermostat to the desired max temperature in the living room. Now, when the living room gets up to temp, the thermostat kicks the blower on and the heat is then drawn out of the fireplace and circulated to other parts of the house.

My experiences with this:
I had heard from many "experts" here that you lose a lot of heat in the duct-work. I think maybe they were just confused. I measured the temp of the air directly out of the fireplace, the temp of the room, and the temp of the air coming out of the ducts. The air right out of the fireplace was 130 degrees, the average room temp of the house was about 66 degrees, and the temp coming out of the supply duct was 88 degrees. Now some may say, "Look, see how much your temp dropped from the fireplace to the supply vent!". But I will counter with the fact that once that air from the fireplace gets into the supply duct it is mixing with 66 degrees air from the supply line, so obviously the temp is going to drop, that was expected. The thing that wasn't expected was exactly how well this has worked to keep the house at a constant temperature.

If I turn the fan off, the living room will stay right around 86 degrees or so (too hot IMHO), and the other rooms will stay around 65 degrees. We can place a fan in our bedroom to blow air out through the hall to the living room, but that only raises the temp to the high 60's or low 70's. That works ok, but it still leaves the bathroom frigid and the other rooms quite chilly. With the HVAC blow turned on, within an hour or so the temp of the whole house (except rooms that we keep closed off) is 72-77 degrees and it is quite comfortable.

Summary:

IMHO, if your fireplace etc has some sort of ducting option, and it is a sealed combustion unit similar to mine, it should serve you well to duct the heat into your main HVAC unit to help circulate the heat throughout the house.
 
Someone has a chip on their shoulder! For the record, I have been one of the aforementioned negative nellies about building a shroud over/around a radiant stove and pumping the air all over the place.

My main concern there was one of stove engineering, not code. Done improperly, or during different fault states, I figured that hillwilliam shroud systems could push very hot air into the duct system. IMO if the stove comes with a duct kit, it IS engineered as a source of hot air suitable for ducting around. I also like your idea of running it to the return so that it gets diluted/cooled by other air--seems a safety plus. BTW, the comments here about HVAC duct losses break down clearly according to whether the ducts are inside or outside the house thermal envelope.

Some questions:
What happens when the system blower is not on?
Are your ducts 'inside' or outside'?
Did you use plastic flex on the stove end, or something with a theoretical better temp/fire rating like foil dryer duct??
Are you going to tell your ins co?
Did/can you estimate the delivered BTU/h, e.g. from the blower cfm and (diluted, net) temp rise?
 
So you did the same thing everybody on the planet with a add-on wood furnace does.

Yawn.
 
woodgeek said:
Someone has a chip on their shoulder! For the record, I have been one of the aforementioned negative nellies about building a shroud over/around a radiant stove and pumping the air all over the place.

My main concern there was one of stove engineering, not code. Done improperly, or during different fault states, I figured that hillwilliam shroud systems could push very hot air into the duct system. IMO if the stove comes with a duct kit, it IS engineered as a source of hot air suitable for ducting around. I also like your idea of running it to the return so that it gets diluted/cooled by other air--seems a safety plus. BTW, the comments here about HVAC duct losses break down clearly according to whether the ducts are inside or outside the house thermal envelope.
Not really a chip on my shoulder, I just know that some people seem to make a really big deal about it being a waste of time, or being against code. I just wanted to share my experiences to get the info out there, without having to deal with the people that are highly negative about it. I can certainly see where building your own shield over a freestanding stove could be a potential hazard.

woodgeek said:
What happens when the system blower is not on?
The fireplace just emits the heat normally as if it didn't have any blower kit. It has upper and lower grates the the air flows into the bottom, around the back and sides, and then out the top via natural convection.
woodgeek said:
Are your ducts 'inside' or outside'?
The ducts are inside; it never occurred to me that the inside/outside ducts could have been the root of the "heat loss" point. Good that it was brought up as this is something that people should check into before considering this.
woodgeek said:
Did you use plastic flex on the stove end, or something with a theoretical better temp/fire rating like foil dryer duct??
Definitely used aluminum flex duct/dryer duct.
woodgeek said:
Are you going to tell your ins co?
Before installing my fireplace I asked them about insurance increases, inspections etc, I was told that it didn't matter, they didn't even need to know that I burned wood for heat, and there would be no inspections or changes, so I can't see how ducting the air like I did would change anything.
woodgeek said:
Did/can you estimate the delivered BTU/h, e.g. from the blower cfm and (diluted, net) temp rise?
Hmm... I probably could, but that would take time. I don't have much free time when I'm home as I have a family and lots of things on the "honey-do list", all that in addition to projects etc around the house and cutting/splitting wood. I'll see if I can get that info. You're talking about the temp rise from cold room air to warm duct air correct?
 
The thing most people talk about is the futility of using the HVAC blower to circulate air from a stove that just heats the air in the room. By the time seventy degree room air is picked up in a return and subjected to duct loses it ain't much good for heating when it comes out of a register. In your case you have hot air coming straight off the fireplace into the duct work just like with a furnace.
 
BrotherBart said:
So you did the same thing everybody on the planet with a add-on wood furnace does.

Yawn.

Yep.

Your system CAME set up to do this.

This is not the situation where most people talk about it not working, (mostly due to duct losses), and I don't think I have ever noticed anyone talking "code" about using the central heat system to move air.

I have seen code talk about "how close" a return register can be to the stove itself, and I have seen it in a manual for at least one stove I looked at, my "guess" is it's about the idea of pulling some kind of combustion gasses back towards the stove and into the living area if the central unit is not electric/heat pump.. but that's a guess.
 
Dakotas Dad said:
BrotherBart said:
So you did the same thing everybody on the planet with a add-on wood furnace does.

Yawn.

Yep.

Your system CAME set up to do this.

This is not the situation where most people talk about it not working, (mostly due to duct losses), and I don't think I have ever noticed anyone talking "code" about using the central heat system to move air.

I have seen code talk about "how close" a return register can be to the stove itself, and I have seen it in a manual for at least one stove I looked at, my "guess" is it's about the idea of pulling some kind of combustion gasses back towards the stove and into the living area if the central unit is not electric/heat pump.. but that's a guess.

Yes, you're right on the "why" for the code. It's so carbon monoxide or other combustion by-products aren't spreading around the house in the event of a problem.

The "code" issue comes up quite frequently. As a matter of fact, when I was planning the install of my fireplace I asked about doing exactly what I did, and got a lot of negative nancy's regarding the issue. I was told everything from "it's against code", to "you won't be happy with the heat loss in the ducts". I made it clear that my fireplace was set up to do just that and that didn't satisfy the those that were negative. That is what inspired me to post my experience.

My experience was not negative as I was led to believe, and I just wanted to get the info out there to anybody that was considering doing what I've done so that they can also know that it's not as negative as some would make it out to be.

Sorry for any inconvenience.
 
CountryBoy19 said:
...Many people recommended against this, some even citing that it may be against code. I don't really care... if that offends you then quit reading now, but if you can swallow that then you may be interested in my experiences so far...

...So being an independent man that can make decisions on my own without looking at a manual of how to live published by "big brother", I defiantly decided that I was going to duct the heat into my main air-blower system...

...I had heard from many "experts" here that you lose a lot of heat in the duct-work. I think maybe they were just confused...

So what's the point? That we're all a bunch of sheep because we play by the rules?

CountryBoy19 said:
Before installing my fireplace I asked them about insurance increases, inspections etc, I was told that it didn't matter, they didn't even need to know that I burned wood for heat, and there would be no inspections or changes, so I can't see how ducting the air like I did would change anything.

I had a similar conversation with my insurance company before installing my add-on. They basically said the same thing with one difference: "As long as it passes code." Their policy is that they don't really care what you do with your home as long as the local code official approves it. I'd check into that if I were you. As far as the whole thing about codes in general-yeah, they can be a royal pain, but if you're not going to follow them, just be prepared for the consequences should something go wrong. I like hearth.com because there are so many smart folks who know how to do it right. If you don't want the advice don't take it.
 
Badfish740 said:
CountryBoy19 said:
...Many people recommended against this, some even citing that it may be against code. I don't really care... if that offends you then quit reading now, but if you can swallow that then you may be interested in my experiences so far...

...So being an independent man that can make decisions on my own without looking at a manual of how to live published by "big brother", I defiantly decided that I was going to duct the heat into my main air-blower system...

...I had heard from many "experts" here that you lose a lot of heat in the duct-work. I think maybe they were just confused...

So what's the point? That we're all a bunch of sheep because we play by the rules?

CountryBoy19 said:
Before installing my fireplace I asked them about insurance increases, inspections etc, I was told that it didn't matter, they didn't even need to know that I burned wood for heat, and there would be no inspections or changes, so I can't see how ducting the air like I did would change anything.

I had a similar conversation with my insurance company before installing my add-on. They basically said the same thing with one difference: "As long as it passes code." Their policy is that they don't really care what you do with your home as long as the local code official approves it. I'd check into that if I were you. As far as the whole thing about codes in general-yeah, they can be a royal pain, but if you're not going to follow them, just be prepared for the consequences should something go wrong. I like hearth.com because there are so many smart folks who know how to do it right. If you don't want the advice don't take it.

No, the point was that if you're going to act that way you're acting, please don't post here because that is no what the thread is about.

You clearly had trouble reading the first line right? I started this thread purely for the informational value of it to other members. I didn't want people jumping on my back about that crap and that is why I said in the first line, "If that offends you then stop reading". I don't really care what you think. I did it the way I did it, and it's working great. I don't even think it's against code because it's not much different than a wood burning furnace, but some people thought so when I first suggested it. That's not what we're here to discuss. If you'd like to discuss the information presented go ahead, but please stay away from the code issues and any negativity in this thread. Thank you
 
This one is done. Doesn't look like much room for discussion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.