Napoleon 1400PL Need your help, Where to locate.

[Thomask9590]

O.K. gang I know this forum is full of heating from the basement questions. But I didn’t find a scenario like mine to compare with. I have attached a sketch of my layout and I hope it is legible. I have a 1200ft2 home that is 100+ years old with a walk out basement. Poor to zero insulation in some areas. The basement has a very nice propane heater in the walk out section It heats the basement well enough to keep pipes from getting too cold. I also have a propane vent less fireplace in the first floor dining room. My question is should I heat from the basement or should I heat from the first floor kitchen. I just purchased a Napoleon 1400PL stove that pumps 70,000 BTU per hour. Is this thing going to blow me out of the kitchen? In the sketch I try to display that the stove would be located quite a ways from the basement stair well. Also, the walkout basement section is made of Stone and brick with two wood windows down there. Anyway, let me know what you think.

 

[yukiginger]

Well, I'm not sure what the vertical red lines are - maybe chimneys? But, you mention that the unit in the dining room is ventless propane. There is no doubt that you will probably get better heat in your living space from a unit on the first floor. I assume that the red vertical mark to the left is a masonry chimney (or is it just a potential spot for a pipe chimney?). If you are putting in a new chimney (piping) I would place it at your dining room area to get better flow upstairs to your other area, but I would need to see your stairs location and understand the doorways/openings between rooms on your first floor. Getting wood to the unit might be easier from the basement to a basement stove, but unless it is well insulated down there the walls might suck up most of the heat and you would have very little left over to travel upstairs.

Getting wood in is a big deal in my opinion and doesn't get mentioned much. I burn 6 cords a year and that is a lot of wood to move to your burning location, so it is a consideration that shouldn't be overlooked. If you are just burning on the weekends this might not be so important.

Keep reading on this site and you will find many discussions of these issues.


MarkG

 

[Thomask9590]

Thanks Mark,
And yes those big red lines are current chimney locations. The one on the right is used for the oil furnace thats why the to proposed stove locations are on the left side of the picture. If you click on the image you can see the stair well locations better.

Do you think 70,000 BTU per hour is too much for 1,200 Square feet?

 

[yukiginger]

I would definitely put it in location 1, again, to get the most heat out of it into your living area. Is that a deck off the back of the house? Is there access to the kitchen directly or through a family room, etc., for bringing in your wood?

On the stove I think that the unit might do fine by you. You say the house is poorly insulated so it's impossible to tell whether it will be adequate to heat the house and without knowing what you expect in heat output no one can really say. It's a medium stove rated for up to 2,000 sq. feet, but the ratings don't tell you much. With your location and level of insulation in your house I would not have gone any smaller, that's for sure. I have a Lopi in my basement (approx. 1300 sq. ft.) that is a similar size and rating and with my uninsulated walls I can raise the temperature from 51F to 62F in about 10 hours, but it needs to be constantly maintained to hold back the cold from the floor and walls. (One of my summer/fall projects is to insulate and condition that space much better which I hope will make a big difference.)

Good luck.

MarkG

 

[Thomask9590]

Actually that is a porch / entry mud room off the back of the house. It used to have old wood windows and I replaced them with new Paradigm vinyl windows this fall. That porch will be fully insulated and sheet rocked by Winter. So that allows me to bring wood in right from that porch. I was a little startlled to read that is takes 10 hours to gain 10 degrees in the basement. Is that at a slow burn? or is the stove bent right over to get that degree change?

 

[Burd]

Im burning the 1402p insert and I have it in my living room were the kids and I watch tv and I havnt been over heated in that room YET.Im in a house thats the same size as yours and its eight years old with very little insulation and it heats the first and second floor just fine But my basement does get cold Thing is I dont have a chimeny in the basment that would work for the insert > Thing I would think about<
1 Do you live in the basement.
2 Do you want to see it in action
3 Does the unit have a fan to push the air up the stair wells.
4 Getting wood to the basment or kitchen witch is easier accses
Mythoughts
I think it would heat from the basement.But I like wacthing the flame so it in the living room.As for my basment I insulated the sill plate with foam and when the basment gets cold I turn on the fan from the heater and it sucks the air through the vents and in to the basment. I allso have a temp gauge down there to keep
and eye on it.This past winter it never got down past 58% :bug:So if your looking to watch the flame or just heat the house it your call
Would love to no what your going to do and post so pictures .Good luck and be safe

 

[Thomask9590]

Thank you Burd, I am realy leaning tword heating from the first floor. I think you get 5 degrees warmer just by watching the wood burn. I don't live in the basement and I can get wood to the first floor easy...well easyish.

 

[Burd]

Ha one thing I like about the wood insert. If its to hot Ill eather open a window or turn the fan off or use less wood And one thingg is for sure,My family will never be cold in this old house again
Ha good luck with the install make sure you do it safely These thing can and will burn your house down

 

[yukiginger]

TGun, I think you're making progress in the this process. Good to think these things through.

My basement has been a real challenge. I worked hard last year on sealing air infiltration, now this season I need to insulate. It's funny because my neighbors basements don't seem to get as cold as mine. I actually think it has a lot to do with the sun and how deep the frost line goes, as our basements are mostly similarly below grade. My yard and house get relatively little sunshine (snow is off my across the street neighbor's lawn a month before it is off mine) so perhaps the frost line in my yard is a little deeper?? Anyway, when I fire up that stove I think the exposed block walls and floor (which are at about 40F according to my infrared thermometer) soak up the heat very well, so it takes quite a while to get the temp up to 60. That stove does not hold much wood, despite a stated 2 cu. ft. box, and within 5 or 6 hours of a full load it will be putting out very little heat. The walls then begin to cool down so by morning the basement is back down to 55. Once again, I'm still working on it.

One thing you'll notice if you hang around this great site is that there are no hard and fast rules. It works differently for each of us, and working all these issues through, perhaps utilizing a different solution or tack than the other guys', is part of the fun (and challenge), I think.

MarkG

 

[begreen]

Mark, is this the Lopi? I would think that if the stove is not showing a stovetop temp of 500+ degrees after an hour of burning, something is wrong. I can understand the heat being sucked right into the walls and earth, but the stove should be burning fairly hot after 30-60 minutes.

 

[yukiginger]

BeGreen, there is nothing wrong with that stove or setup. I can definitely have the stovetop at 600+ within an hour, probably less. What I was saying related to it cooling down. After 5 or 6 hours of a load the stove will be down to a few hundred degrees temp. - and therefore not cranking out the heat enough to keep the temp up in that large, unconditioned space.

MarkG

 

[begreen]

Gotcha. that sounds like normal burn times for a 2 cu ft stove being pushed for heat. Insulating those walls, caulking the sill and insulating the rim joist will make a huge difference in the basement. Then the stove should be able to be turned down earlier and give longer burn times.