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Need advice for a new stove...

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by PapaDave, Nov 29, 2012.

  1. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    Next year is the time for a new stove.
    I've got a small 1250 sq. ft. ranch that's about 22' x 50' with a stove room to the side on the west end.
    Most of the home is on slab. Stove room windows are aluminum and when it's cold, get iced up. They leak.......basically, they're crap and will be replaced ASAP.
    Insulation will be improved (I started tearing into the stove room a couple days ago) and new front and rear doors next year.
    The stove I have works, but needs to be reloaded WAYYYY too often for my liking to keep house temps up when it's real cold out (see above re: insulation). It's almost impossible to keep the stove under 650 even burning a small load.
    Depending how I measure this stove, it's a variety of sizes, so I'll just use the brick to brick dimensions.
    It's 23"W x 18" D (to the glass) x 10" (maybe 11), so just a bit over 2 cu. ft., and keeps the house warm unless it's below 0::F. It struggles a little even a bit above 0, but it works.
    What I need help with is determining the size to use when getting a modern stove that will hold a 500::F temp for several hours (does that even happen).
    I'm considering a cat stove (the Sirocco is #1 on the list), but we like to view the fire, so not sure how that would be possible with a cat.
    A nice T-5 or 6 would work if it can be controlled in shoulder season. I wouldn't mind reloading every 8 hours, since that would cut my reloads at least in 1/2. Twelve hrs. would be better, and the ability to go for a day in shoulders would make my heart stop.;)
    The little wall between kitchen and LR is a 1/2 wall, so house is pretty open, and most of the time we keep the 2 small BR's closed. There's also a window on the wall between the kitchen and "new bedroom". New bedroom is a remodded 3 season porch on slab.
    6' W x 7' H opening at stove room. Stove is situated on the wall just left of the S in the word stoveroom.
    Simple request.... help.:cool:

    floorplanredo.jpg

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  2. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    How big is the Ashley?

    Because the claim is that the Vigilant is equal to an Encore and I call BS on that. So, when running a Pre-EPA stove that is a bit of a heat monster, you need to be really honest with your needs.

    How big is that stove, how much heat does it throw, and what do you need to keep you happy as far as heat and heat movement are concerned?
  3. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    Dave, good for you thinking this out way ahead of time. And you are so right about the insulation, windows and doors, etc. For example, we went that route last year and one thing that has meant for us is warmth! A good example is this last cold spell we had. I think 16 was our low temperature along with several days it did not get above the freezing mark. We hear of folks loading up their stoves and burning hot. But we have found that even on that night of 16 degrees, we put 3 splits or sometimes 4 if they are small and it lasts all night. Also, my night is not 8 hours as my body seems to require more sleep that that. Our house sizes are not far apart nor is our weather much different.

    On the question you asked about the cat stove and viewing the fire. There are many stoves that will work and one is the Fireview like we have. No problem viewing the fire. It is true that you can cut the air and get the firebox to where there is no flame but if you want flame all it takes is a very small adjustment of the air.

    One of these days we are going to get up in your direction and can then see what you are heating. Besides, we love to meet you too.
    Pallet Pete likes this.
  4. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    Good memory on the Ashley. 23"w x18"d x about 10-11"h, so about 2.4 cu. ft.
    Last year just before Thanksgiving, we got a nice air purifier and I point it into the stove room from the LR. It gets the "new BR" up to about 63 in the dead of winter.
    I need about 550-600 consistently when it gets "cold" out. It's starting to get cold.
    I thought a cat would be ideal since I have a small house and would oversize some, then burn a little lower. Easy, right? Then, Bev insists on seeing fire. Monkey wrench.
    Does a bigger stove at the same temp throw more heat due to mass?
  5. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    Yes, it does. More mass and size aids in this.
  6. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    Hey Dennis, I thought you'd chime in.:cool:
    If I could burn a cat and still see fire sometimes, this would be much easier. Possible with a Sirocco, I wonder?
    I can put a load in the stove now, and have coals in the morning after 8-9 hours, but the house temp is down in the low to mid 60's when it's cold. Not too bad for me, but Mom is staying with us for a while after her heart attack and stents got put in.
    72 in the house right now and she's got on my thermal hoodie.;lol
  7. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    Cat stoves do show flame. But, when you run them low the flame is less apparent or non-existent.

    The Ashley is about the same size as the Vigilant. The Vig comes in at about 2.75 cu ft. And if it heats anything at all like the Vig, you would be really safe going with a larger EPA stove. A T6 would probably work well with it's 2.97 cu ft firebox. It is over-sized for your needs so you should be able to maximize burn times.

    The 2.75 cu ft BK stoves would work well and you should be able to turn it up enough to see flame... I think.

    The Fireview could work, but it is smaller than your Ashley. Not sure how much the additional mass will come into play. As an example; the 30 heats just as well as the Defiant and it is 100lbs lighter than the Defiant, but can hold the same amount of wood.
  8. rdust

    rdust Minister of Fire

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    She'll get over not seeing a fire when it's warm and toasty for 24 hours at a time when the temp never moves but a degree or two. 12 hours easy when it's cold burning that good Michigan hardwoods you have. ;)

    In reality you do see flames, how often do you just sit and stare at a fire? If you want to see fire with the BK it's only a twist of a knob away. As my wife says "you load it, you see a pretty fire for a while, you turn it down and stay warm." I can dial mine in so it has a slow/lazy flame for hours on end if I want to watch the fire and it's not tearing through a load of wood like that. The control is really pretty amazing, sometimes I still marvel at it.
  9. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    Well, I think you just sold a BK, rdust. Wife will be glad to hear she'll have a flame show when she wants.
    Next question is which one? Sirocco 20 or 30?
  10. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    The 30.
  11. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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  12. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    I meant the Sirocco 30. The 20 is smaller than the stove you currently have and you would lose some of the benefits of owning the BK, which is the super long burn times.
  13. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    Yep, I knew that.
    The E-30 was on my short list until we discussed things. She said, "as long as I can see fire, I'm good".
    The beauty of the cat is the flexibility.
    The long wait begins.
  14. BrowningBAR

    BrowningBAR Minister of Fire

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    At 1250 sq ft, I think the Englander 30 would be overkill for you, unless their is a draft issue you ain't sharing with the rest of the class ;lol

    Even The Sirocco is overkill at 2.75 cu ft. But, you will really benefit with the super long burn times.
  15. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    You mean flue draft or house draft? House is a bit drafty, so I thought of an OAK while I'm redoing the room. I know the house needs better insulation and I'm working on that, albeit slowly.>>
    Flue is 14', and manual calls for min. of 12'. Mine is straight up.
    I mentioned in another thread that I'd like a 2.5 stove, and 2.75 isn't much bigger. Controllability and burn times are my big issues right now and actually have been.
  16. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    This has been bouncing around in my head for at least 3 years.
    I had the money when we moved in here, but not a darn clue about stoves and wood. :mad:
    I have a little better clue now, but not enough money.
    Figures.
    Soon, very soon.
    BBar, I agree the E-30 would have been overkill unless I could figure out how to control the burn in shoulders.
    The house is sized for a smaller stove, but lacks enough insulation so I need a bigger stove with control. Even when the house gets insulated better, the cat can burn low and slow and I'm still gooder.
    The PO left a bunch of stuff scattered in the attic, so I need to get that out first, or at least do it as I go.
  17. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    Don't know about the Sirocco but I'll bet you can. For sure you can with a Woodstock Fireview or Progress. And although I've never had a heart attack, I'm with Mom. Warmer is better. Get it to about 76 or higher and I'll bet she will be smiling! Bring her here for a visit and she probably would not want to leave.
  18. corey21

    corey21 Minister of Fire

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    I think the Englander 30 would run you out.

    That BK sounds like a better choice.
  19. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    Bump with some more info.
    Forgot to mention that the Ashley burn times are pretty poor. Flames and up to about 650 for no more than about 2 hours, then the decline begins.
    I can put a load in (I should weigh one) of 8-10 medium splits and do the air thing, then go to bed. Wake about 6-7 hours later with enough coals to restart and the house at 65 -ish. I don't run it that way during the day....it gets too warm in the living room.
    Our average winter temps (WAG) are mid-upper teens, with an occasional foray into well below 0::F.
    Did a heat loss calc this a.m., and came up with about 35,000 btu. Would that be per hour? I'll ask my brother.
    R-11 walls and ceiling, slab on grade for most of the house, 300 sq. ft. window area, and 2 poor exterior doors (back door is actually hollow torsion box design and looks more like an interior door>>).
    I'm starting to think the 20 might work when this mess gets fixed.
  20. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    I would consider a medium sized BK or Woodstock Fireview in cat stoves and the PE T5 or Enviro Boston in non-cats.
  21. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    begreen, I think you read my mind. The T-5 has been on the list for a long time as long as it's easily regulated in the shoulders.
    I imagine the cost is/will be similar to a sirocco 20-30. I'd need to find a dealer within a reasonable distance for a T-5.
    The plan is to gradually re-insulate attic and most outside walls and new windows in at least the stove room.
    All the above stoves have the handle on the correct side.;)
  22. kingquad

    kingquad Minister of Fire

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    Take the time to air seal your attic properly before insulating. It can make a huge difference. Same with your walls.
  23. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

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    Good advice, kingquad.
    When I redid the back room, I replaced all the old wall insulation, but sealed everything first. Stove room is next on the agenda.
  24. Pallet Pete

    Pallet Pete Guest

    Dave there is a really good stove shop near the manistee area that my buddy used I will ask him the name for you. If you need or want help just shout and I would be glad to come up and help with the stove swap. Besides the wife loves it up there !

    Pete
  25. Pallet Pete

    Pallet Pete Guest

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