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Need help connecting stainless liner to wood insert

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by ozarkjeep, Nov 14, 2006.

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  1. ozarkjeep

    ozarkjeep New Member

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    so, from these pics, what do I need to connect this stove to the stainless liner?

    is the offset adapter thing needed? it looks like it will be needed, UNLESS I angle the liner pretty good.

    I found this galvankized piece at home depot today, looks like it might work instead of the offset.

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  2. DriftWood

    DriftWood Minister of Fire

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    l'd only use new high temperature UL listed stainless steel for wood or coal or gas to connect that in myhouse. The guys here will need to know all the information on your install pipe size, stove type,brand, age if known, is it a reinstall, new, the whole 10 yards. Life is to short, be safe!
  3. ozarkjeep

    ozarkjeep New Member

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    right!

    I just bought this on a whim today $2 at the store, it is EXACTLY what I need.

    IM surprised that most of the connections ive seen, Dont seem to hold the flu to the stove well enough.

    I like the tangs on this that I can bend up inside the stove to clamp it there.

    I wish I could find one in stainless!




  4. DavidV

    DavidV New Member

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    The safety patrol will be here in a few minutes. The galvanized is out. Won't stand up to the heat. And others will correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to recal something about the fumes that come off galvanized when it's overheated?? Anyway. If the offset box is still servicable, use it. if not, replace it. angling th e liner is less than desireable if it can be avoided. The burned up connector you have in the front of the first picture should be trashed. You really need a stove starter in stainless. Shouldn't be too hard to find at the stove shop or on the net.
  5. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    2003 NFPA 211 chapter 12

    12.4.1.2 Galvanized steel pipe shall not be used for solid fuel-burning appliances

    also I'm willing to bet it is not of 24 gage as also code required but since it is an HVAC adapter probably 28 gage

    You are in luck Ventnox makes the correct off set adapter possibly Homesaver There is a picture of one in the sor sale forum offered by Hot Flame

    http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/1544/



    what about an adjustiable elbow?
  6. ozarkjeep

    ozarkjeep New Member

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    David,
    right, IM not using the galv connector, just trying to find what fits and what I need, before driving the half hour to the local stove store.
    offset box is still serviceable, it will likely be used.

    "Stove Starter"

    see, thats a term I hadnt heard, and now I know what to ask for, I was thinking it was called a collar.

    Thanks!



    quote author="DavidV" date="1163525730"]The safety patrol will be here in a few minutes. The galvanized is out. Won't stand up to the heat. And others will correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to recal something about the fumes that come off galvanized when it's overheated?? Anyway. If the offset box is still servicable, use it. if not, replace it. angling th e liner is less than desireable if it can be avoided. The burned up connector you have in the front of the first picture should be trashed. You really need a stove starter in stainless. Shouldn't be too hard to find at the stove shop or on the net.[/quote]
  7. ozarkjeep

    ozarkjeep New Member

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    Morning Elk,

    Yes, I dont plan to use the galvy connector.
    I DO have an offset adapter that I will use.

    My real question, is what positevly holds the offset box into the hole on top of the stove?

    does it just sit there?

    I fear that pushing the stove back into the fireplace might dislodge or angle the box since the stainless liner is so rigid.

    Thanks for your help!



  8. recppd

    recppd New Member

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    There is no way to really answer that properly without knowing what kind of clearances you have between the liner and the insert once it's in place. In my insert install, there was no way for me to direct connect the liner to the top of the insert as the liner could not flex far enough forward to meet the opening. So I brought the liner straight down the chimney into a "T" and then ran a 90 degree elbow off the top of the insert and into a short piece of pipe in between. Next season I think I'm going to ditch the "T" and use two 45's to get a quicker draft. For some reason I think it's attributing to my "brown glass" syndrome...
  9. wg_bent

    wg_bent Minister of Fire

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    I did what Elk suggested. I used an adjustable elbow. seems to work fine. The trick was getting the thing into the top of the insert. Here's what I did.

    I attached the elbow to the liner with screws and sealed it with furnace cement. Next I pushed the stove into the fireplace and put the male end of the elbow on top of the stove such that the liner was essentially sprung. I had to use a car jack to spring the liner. Liners are like giant springs. next I pushed the stove back under the elbow, and it popped into place. Then I sealed around it with furnace cement.

    so far it hasn't leaked. check it this year with light and looks good.
  10. recppd

    recppd New Member

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    You've got to explain this one further. I lost your interpretation of "sprung".
  11. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    When GVA and I installed Turner's insert last week the final piece of the puzzle we installed a common Black stove pipe elbow into the fleu collar and worked the adjustiable angle to fint the stainless steel liner. At that point once we were able to make the fit we then attached sheet metal screws to hold every thing in position the caluked the stove collar

    A starter pipe is a shore piece of black pipe crimped on both ends may work. What came with you liner kit?

    3 sheet metal screws

    I wish I could see you setup in person and help you get it connected
  12. joshuaviktor

    joshuaviktor New Member

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    oh my god. Connecting the flex liner to the black pipe to connect to the stove, was a BLOODY NIGHTMARE! HAd to cut the flex to crimp it, then push it in place, then screw it multiple times, using 136 caulk to cover everything, looks uglier than hell, but damn does it hold.

    REspect on the car jack. Didn't need to go that far with mine,
  13. wg_bent

    wg_bent Minister of Fire

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    Once the liner is in the chimney, if you push up on the bottom of it (WITH GLOVES!!!!) You'll see that it acts like a spring a bit if you hold the top of the liner in place. So you can push on the liner a bit from the bottom, and the bottom moves up, when you let go, it springs back down. The movement is only about 1 inch or so, but that's enough to get the peices to snap into place. When I say push...I mean push HARD. I used a 1.5 ton car jack to "push" up on the liner to get that inch of movement with a board under it as a pushing surface. Well, there's one I should have taken a picture of I guess.
  14. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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    The above discussions of using black pipe elbows brings the question to mind that I have with my new setup. I also used an elbow and it was no fun getting it in there. What has me concerned is the life of the elbow. With my other free standing stoves I replace the black pipe every couple of years. Cheap and easy when cleaning the chimney.

    What I don't know is how long the black pipe elbow is going to hold up. I darn sure can't be replacing it very often give the bear of a job it was to get it in there.
  15. ozarkjeep

    ozarkjeep New Member

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    here are some more pics Elk,

    Im concerned with the sliding offset adapter being held to the stove top.

    there is NO flange sticking out of the stove, only a hole in the top.

    So where would I put 3 screws to hold the adapter to the stove?



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  16. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    I'm going to have to read your manual some inserts require fastening the connector pipe from inside the stove and require blafflet plate removal to get the screws in

    I have a few ideas but not time now to type them in Othere have removable flue collar flanges that you get close than rebolt them back onto the stove after all other connections are made.

    do you have a black stove pipe adjustiable elbow? the stain End piece I see there the wider end can fit over the liner the smaller end will fit over black stove pipe and the adjustiable elbow corrugated ens should fit in the stove flue collar What about two elbows and short piece of black stove pipe?
  17. jmd425

    jmd425 New Member

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    I did what Elk is suggesting (black stove pipe adjustiable elbow) worked great!
  18. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    O jeep Pm me you phone# maybe I can talk you threw your final setup Bowling night tonight I will be home after 9pm EST to call you back but try some trial and r error appraoches I mentioned with the elbows and I will download and read your manual concerning final connections
  19. ozarkjeep

    ozarkjeep New Member

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    Ill PM you the number ELK, my daughter has a birthday partytonight but I should be home around 8pm central.

    the stainless collar will fit over the flex, and into the top of the sliding offset adapter.
    so ive got that far figured out.

    NOW, the bottom of the sliding offset adapter, does it simply plug into the stove, and gravity holds it there?

    I bought some 136 sealant for inside the flu, and some roof flashing/chimney tar stuff today.

    The instruction manual for the stove is pretty vague about the flu connection details, it talks about sheet metal screws a bit.

    maybe I need to screw the bottom of the sliding offset adapter to the top of the stove.
    thats going to be a bear, since it wont fit thru the fireplace openeing with it in place.

    anyway.

    Thanks for the help everyone, is getting colder by the day here so Im getting MOTIVATED to finish this install.

    THANKS!
  20. AdamC

    AdamC New Member

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    Hi all,

    I am reviving this old topic because I have a similar situation and want to get some clarification for myself and anyone else who might find this thread.

    I am installing a Fireplace Extrordinair Elite 33 (same as a Lopi Declaration). The hole in the top if the insert is exactly 6", so it is too small to admit the liner. Three small angle brackets are included to attach the liner to the top of insert. The instructions are very poor and only have a diagram that seems indicate that the liner should just butt up to the top of the insert, which doesn't seem acceptable.

    The liner is a Simpson Duraflex and does not include any type of adapter that will work. I am going to see if my dealer has a stainless adapter that will fit, but I know that black stove pipe will work if they don't. I also understand that it is not as durable as stainless and will have to be frequently inspected and occasionally replaced.

    My biggest questions are regarding sealing the connections. Neither the instructions for the liner or for the insert discuss the use of furnace cement to seal connections. Is this necessary? Advised? If I do use the black pipe connection, it seems like the cement would end up being a mess when it cme time to inspect/replace it. The elbow I am looking at is not fluted on the end and will fit snugly into the outlet of the insert.

    Any suggestions, especially concerning the need to seal the connections as long as they are fairly tight and have a strong physical attachment.

    Thanks!

    Adam
  21. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

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    The Simpson duraflex insert kit comes with a stove connector, and it is also available separately.
  22. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

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  23. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    Simpson makes s.s. 30 degree & s.s. 45 degree elbows, Why can't you slide elbow into outlet on stove, the liner to elbow? At 30 or 45 degrees you should be able to get line on.

    http://www.ventingpipe.com/display.cfm?categoryID=715
    A lil over 1/2 way down the page.

    Theres also a sotvetop adapter at 30 degrees, it looks like it has a mounting flange that you could screw to the stove top.
    Me I'd go with the elbow, I wouldnt put any more holes than needed.
  24. AdamC

    AdamC New Member

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    Thanks for the replies,

    jtp10181 wrote:

    The Simpson duraflex insert kit comes with a stove connector, and it is also available separately.

    Unless I was shorted a part, the connector I got with the kit requires some kind of a flange extending out of the stove. It is essentially the same thing you would use to couple two pieces of flex together.

    BrotherBart wrote:

    Here is the Dura Flex part that you need. For $18 bucks it is worth it not to have to replace the thing every couple of years.
    http://www.hartshearth.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=683&idproduct=7278
    And yes, I advise a bead of furnace cement inside the adapter before you put it on the liner and another bead inside the stove collar before you insert the adapter.


    That is exactly what I need. I will check with my dealer tomorrow.

    Hogwildz wrote:

    Simpson makes s.s. 30 degree & s.s. 45 degree elbows, Why can’t you slide elbow into outlet on stove, the liner to elbow? At 30 or 45 degrees you should be able to get line on.
    http://www.ventingpipe.com/display.cfm?categoryID=715
    A lil over 1/2 way down the page.
    Theres also a sotvetop adapter at 30 degrees, it looks like it has a mounting flange that you could screw to the stove top.
    Me I’d go with the elbow, I wouldnt put any more holes than needed.


    I am pretty sure those parts go with the Simpson rigid liner, but I will also inquire with the dealer. An elbow would be nice.

    Adam
  25. jtp10181

    jtp10181 Minister of Fire

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    You got the old kit then, the new one comes with the part BB posted (they just depleted old inventory recently). The Simpson 30 deg elbows are made for the DuraLiner but I have tested it with the duraflex and it fits in there ok. They are a little big though. We use 30 deg elbows from Chim-A-Lator now owned by Bernard Dalsin. It has the same ends as the simpson adaptor except its an elbow. Works pretty nice. http://www.dalsinmfg.com/
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