1. Welcome Hearth.com Guests and Visitors - Please enjoy our forums!
    Hearth.com GOLD Sponsors who help bring the site content to you:
    Hearthstone Soapstone and Cast-Iron stoves( Wood, Gas or Pellet Stoves and Inserts)

Need Help With Insert Shopping

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by BrotherBart, Aug 22, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    29,416
    Loc:
    Northern Virginia
    Ok, I replaced the office stove with a Jotul F100 last year. Moving it up to a F3 CB this year and moving the F100 to the warehouse for heat. Next in line is the replacement of the big insert in the house. I figure this year to be its last season so the replacement shopping has begun.

    What I don't know is what stove I am going to need to give me comparable heat. Given that the old environment abuser has a four cubic foot firebox and gives me long burns and pretty much the perfect heat output needed for our house. I very possibly am going to end up in CAT land but I don't know.

    Anybody have any experiences to toss in regarding their move from the old tech to the new tech and any guesses at how much smaller I can go with a new stove and still have roughly equivilent heating and burn times? I know it is all subjective and depends on the operator and the wood as much as the stove, but personal experiences about perceived output old to new are probably more meaningful than lab stats. And the big CATs mostly appear to need eight inch flues which ain't gonna be happening in this chimney. After the hell of getting that double wall six inch liner and a bunch of rockwool in there, it stays in there.

    All is appreciated.

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. Shane

    Shane Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,830
    Loc:
    Casper Wyoming
    Unless you go catalytic getting equivilent burn times will be difficult, but I suppose that depends on what kind of burn time and burning habits you have with the old one. You can probably go about 25% smaller or a little more and get around the same heat output.
  3. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2005
    Messages:
    12,114
    Loc:
    Western Mass.
    The larger non-cats like the Avalon, etc. are generally in the range of 3.0 cubic foot fireboxes - probably equal to your existing when efficiency is figured in.

    As you may know from the other stoves, newer units tend to be more even in heat output, which can actually disappoint some users of old "roast you out" stoves...but after some use they start to appreciate the better control and efficiency.

    Are you stuck on insert with surround panels and blower? Or will hearth stove or insert installed without panels be a possibility?
  4. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    29,416
    Loc:
    Northern Virginia
    Everything is on the table at this point. The major constraint is the hearth depth, 19" (in front of the fireplace) , and the fireplace opening size, 31" high X 33" wide. That and the fact that I like having as much of the weight as possible sitting over the chimney foundation, not on the hearth. The old stove was a winner all around on that stuff because it has such a deep firebox. Half is inside the fireplace and half on the hearth. Like having an insert and a hearth stove. It is a raised hearth with a 24" stove board in front of it on the floor.

    I know for sure with the new inserts I will be depending a lot more on the blower. But with a free standing stove with blower the result would probably be sufficient heat. In that case I would probably have my sheet metal shop whip me up a steel liner for the fireplace and insulate behind it. To overcome the ugly and the heat loss.
  5. wg_bent

    wg_bent Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,248
    Loc:
    Poughkeepsie, NY
    Well, Bro...I think you just asked us to help you spend your money. Nice!! Of course, and all kidding on this subject aside, the PE Summit should be in the running. Also, the Osburn 2400, and the Lopi Freedom. What about the Winter Warm Large? Awful nice looking stove, CAT, so long burn time, 9 hours claim (but a bit small on the firebox size. 2.2 cuft)
  6. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,859
    Loc:
    Eastern Nebraska
    I agree with Warren on the different stoves. You might want to keep the 3.0 cf fire box in mind comming from your larger stove. Tho you might not need the 3.0 cf fire box to stuff full of wood you will have the extra room for a large coal bed and longer between ash clean outs .
  7. Todd

    Todd Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Messages:
    9,229
    Loc:
    Lake Wissota
    Country Flame, and Energy King have 6" flue cat inserts. I'm sure there are others. What about the Fireplace Extraordinaire by Travis industries?
  8. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,654
    Loc:
    Boulder County
    Quad 5100I is pretty darn big, I think rhone has been happy with his hearthstone clydsdale.... What style are you looking for? the cast stuff or the steel stuff?
  9. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    29,416
    Loc:
    Northern Virginia
    Twenty one years with the heavy plate steel stove has made a believer out of me. I think steel is a front runner based on that experience. I don't see a significant difference in the up to speed time with the little cast dudes and the steel stove.

    The Jotul inserts confuse that issue with them having steel fireboxes. There are just too many damned stoves these days!
  10. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,654
    Loc:
    Boulder County
    Ohh i just sell them by looks, not function. (as far as cast and steel are concerned) the 5100I might stick out to far, its a pretty big insert.
  11. daninohio

    daninohio New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2006
    Messages:
    57
    Loc:
    Cincinnati, OH
    Unfortunately, I don't think that will fit. If memory serves me right it needs about 35" width . . . (it would have squeezed in my fireplace with an inch to spare).
  12. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    29,416
    Loc:
    Northern Virginia
    Pretty ain't bad. As long as it gets hot too.
  13. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,654
    Loc:
    Boulder County
    Ohh you know they all get hot! I hear ya, there are lots of options, i wish i were more rounded on the units avalible, unfortunatly the only ones i get my hands on are the ones i sell. I realy like the hearthstone homstead used like a insert. I have seen them installed and they look pretty cool with there surround. The 5100 I is just a beast.
  14. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,859
    Loc:
    Eastern Nebraska
    Awe ........... Just buy one of each .......... do a report for Hearth net and install the one you like the best . When we have a question you'll have all of them right there with you and you can answer all the questions .
  15. suematteva

    suematteva New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Messages:
    605
    Loc:
    Rutland, VT//Southern Quebec
    BB,

    Have a look at the hearthsone mansfield manual page 6 has the dimensions..the height of the flue collar is a concern..top of stove is 27" not including flue collar, width is 27 depth is 29..might fit in there?
  16. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,654
    Loc:
    Boulder County
    Top of the flue collar is roughly 32". Not enough to get a 90 on, the heritage would fit nice though.
  17. Rhone

    Rhone Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    824
    If you like steel, why not go for the PE Summit. It's big, good item for the $, and high quality and it has a shroud around all sides and it's steel. I have the Hearthstone Clydesdale, probably more $ than you're looking for. It being soapstone, and cast iron and seems to be built like a steam locomotive it's really hard to roast yourself out with it instead you get really nice even heat. It has great burn times as I get anywhere from 6-7 hours on max burn and 14 1/2 hours on minimum... I think that is because I may have a crimp in my liner. I'm not supposed to be getting 6-7 hour burns on max air and 14 1/2 hour burns on minimum ya know? Plus the 14 1/2 hour burns are awful. I try to keep them 9 hours or under. As for the 4 cu ft firebox... that's a tough one. My old wood stove was I think a 4 cu ft firebox and it was 80,000 btu's. My Clydesdale is a 2.4 cu ft and rated at 60,000... part of the lower number is the soapstone I believe. The Summit has a 3 cu ft and 97,000 btu's.

    The Clydesdale falls behind in the quickly heating department. If you come home to a cold house and want to quickly get it warmed up... go for the PE Summit insert. I hear people can get up to 8 hour burns with them. The Summits do have small windows, but I think you're beyond the window phase. I'll never be over it, the Clydesdale super-sized window is its best feature and sucks my life away as I sit for hours with my head right near the window watching the dancing flames and pretty secondary burn shooting waves of deep purple and orange at me listening to the gentle hum of the blowers running. Before I realize what's going on it's usually 2am unless my wife is nice enough to remind me it's time for bed. I even figured out what the meaning of life was while sitting there watching it once... but forgot to write it down.
  18. BrotherBart

    BrotherBart Hearth.com LLC Mid-Atlantic Division Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Messages:
    29,416
    Loc:
    Northern Virginia
    Never past the window phase. Besides being able to monitor the burn I hear ya about contemplating life watching the flames. Me and my friend Bud Weiser have solved every problem in the entire world watching the fire. And I keep saying that someday I am going to put that pen and paper on the end table too.

    The only thing I think that changes over time is that you put off lighting that first fire that cranks off the months of 24-7 hoping to make the woodpile last longer. Since wood is our primary once it starts it does not stop until late April, early May. Early on I would watch the weather reports eagerly hoping for a fifty degree night in September.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page