Need more advice: Getting ready for the next season

[Clymer76]

Happy New Year members!!

I posted a thread around October last year looking for advice regarding a fireplace insert to compliment our mid century modern home. Just to recap our house has a very open concept, a lot of windows somewhat drafty and not well insulated. We currently have a RAIS Atlas wood stove that came with the house on the main level of the house and opposite that we have another fireplace. The original plan was to place an insert in the fireplace and use the insert for most of our needs and if needed use both in tandem. A several members suggested to replace the RAIS wood stove with a modern EPA wood stove with a larger firebox and forget about the insert. Since then I have been doing a lot of research on the forum and come to the these conclusions:

1) Based on on our fireplace dimensions it would be very difficult to get a decent size insert; although we have the height and width the angle of both sides taper in too much which I think would be a hindrance in placing an insert. Please see picture to see if I'm correct in my assumptions.

2) We would have to have the fireplace chimney lined and insulated- so additional cost

3) Would the insert be able to provide adequate heating? We have oil heating and would like to significantly decrease out consumption. Realistically, I don't think we will become oil independent just because of the total sq. footage of the house (approx. 2500) and insulation, glass etc.

4) At this point, I agree probably the most functional and cost effective approach is to replace the RAIS with a modern wood stove.

Having come to this conclusion I have some further questions:

1) Can I use the existing chimney pipe and setup and just swap out the stove? Based on the RAIS manual the stove pipe is 6 inches.

2) The RAIS stove has a rear pipe connection and most of the stoves we are looking at have a top connection.

3) Since the pipe is coming from the back portion of the chimney and the new wood stove will not be directly below, how should I approach that? Two 45 degree bends, 30 degree bends, or 90 degree bends.

4) What are your opinions regarding the Drolet HT 2000? In terms of complimenting the style of the house would it just look "weird"? Although I would like to purchase something more modern, I am afraid to spend around 3K and find out the wood stove is not accomplishing our heating needs.

5) My plan now is to have our wood burning setup ready for the 2015 fall season. Are there a lot of sales, discounts for stoves during the spring and summer months?

I have a attached a few pictures here and my older thread has pictures of our house to give you a better idea of the layout etc. The older thread is under "Need Help: Advice on Fireplace Insert for Mid Century Modern Home"

I am a novice when it comes to wood burning so please bear with me. As always, thank you for taking time to read this and offering your advice.

 

[Clymer76]

"Anyone, Anyone"

 

[TheRambler]

You can use the exisiting chimney pipe as long as it is in good condition. Might be wise to have it inspected by a certified sweep with a camera. You can use whatever angles you need to to make the connection, you just want to use as few as possible and minimize the angles if possible. Thinking two 45s might be best. As far as style goes, that's all personal preference. I would just make sure you size the stove appropriately for the house.

What size house are you heating anyway?

 

[DougA]

According to the info I found by Googling, your present stove is 2.4 cu ft and produces 27,300 BTU. I probably would believe that number might be equal to many stoves in N. America that state they are 40K BTU or higher. I think some of the advertising on stoves is more hype than fact. I like to judge by size more than BTU specs. IOW, it's not all that bad! I did not look at the design and could not find specs on % performance.

I see that the brick work has been customized for the shape of the RAIS, so you're going to have to find something that will fit into that space with at least 3 cu ft. capacity before you do anything else. Some stoves will offer interchangeable rear as well as top flues, so dig a bit on specs rather than just look at the pics. Both my stoves have that feature.

I would judge the existing 6" chimney on how long it's been there. I had a lengthy discussion with an inspector about doing a video inspection of mine and he was very clear that he tried it and it was not worth it. They can't see problems that might be there and so they refuse to certify anything after it's 25 yrs. old. No idea what you might find your area inspectors would say. If in doubt, replace it. It appears that there is water damage on the ceiling near the chimney and that might indicate water has been getting it for quite awhile.

I won't touch the choice of stove styles as it is such a personal choice. Generally, go as big as you can and still use a 6" chimney. 2,500 sq ft is a lot when you add ceiling height & lots of glass. I'd want to be at least 80,000 BTU with 3.5 cu ft. capacity if you want to use the stove to provide enough heat to turn down/off your other source.

 

[Clymer76]

You can use the exisiting chimney pipe as long as it is in good condition. Might be wise to have it inspected by a certified sweep with a camera. You can use whatever angles you need to to make the connection, you just want to use as few as possible and minimize the angles if possible. Thinking two 45s might be best. As far as style goes, that's all personal preference. I would just make sure you size the stove appropriately for the house.

What size house are you heating anyway?

Thanks for replying Rambler. The house is approx. 2500 sq. ft. very open concept, it's a 3 level house with a spiral staircase in the center of the house from the first floor all the way through the 3rd floor. The 3rd floor which is our master bedroom is actually loft like, the heat generated from the wood stove will circulate upwards. The stove pipe seems to be in okay shape, however I figured it might be best to swap the chimney pipe when changing stoves. I agree two 45's will work and I hope that won't affect the draft too much.

Although I would like something more modern in terms of style, I have to factor in price, size, and the ability to heat the house when it's all said and done. I don't want to spend a lot of money and then realize I'm not achieving my goal. Although another forum member had an interesting thread and stated when your burning with wood you will be better off because your using less oil than if you didn't burn at all.

 

[Clymer76]

According to the info I found by Googling, your present stove is 2.4 cu ft and produces 27,300 BTU. I probably would believe that number might be equal to many stoves in N. America that state they are 40K BTU or higher. I think some of the advertising on stoves is more hype than fact. I like to judge by size more than BTU specs. IOW, it's not all that bad! I did not look at the design and could not find specs on % performance.

Hi Doug, thanks for replying. Our current stove is not bad, "I think" but unfortunately I have nothing to compare it too. I like the style of the stove, it weighs about 600 lbs. with all the soapstone, but here are my problems with the stove:

1) I am reloading the stove every 2-3 hours.
2) Can't fit a lot of wood in there, the stove box is narrow
3) Not able to heat the whole house

Will I see a significant difference with a stove like HT200, Osborn 2400, etc. from what I currently have?

"I see that the brick work has been customized for the shape of the RAIS, so you're going to have to find something that will fit into that space with at least 3 cu ft. capacity before you do anything else. Some stoves will offer interchangeable rear as well as top flues, so dig a bit on specs rather than just look at the pics. Both my stoves have that feature."

All of the fireplace chimneys are triangular in shape when viewed from the outside, we have 4 of them in the house. Try too imagine a triangle with a nook carved out, that's where the RAIS stove is currently in. I can fit a larger stove in the area, it just would not be as recessed back in the nook as the current setup.

I'm more than likely going to replace the stove pipe and fix the ceiling area where the leak occurred, it's been there since I moved into the house. I wanted to do everything together. If I were to replace the stove pipe, I'm thinking double wall stove pipe? Any brands that forum members recommend? I see a lot of adds for Duravent and Selkirk.


"I won't touch the choice of stove styles as it is such a personal choice. Generally, go as big as you can and still use a 6" chimney. 2,500 sq ft is a lot when you add ceiling height & lots of glass. I'd want to be at least 80,000 BTU with 3.5 cu ft. capacity if you want to use the stove to provide enough heat to turn down/off your other source."


The HT2000 is rated at 95,000 BTU and has a 3.4 cu. ft. firebox. Are there larger fireboxes that use a 6 inch chimney?

 

[begreen]

The Rais is a very high quality stove and a modern design. It is undersized to heat the whole house, but should still have high value. Ask a Rais dealer what it cost new. You might be surprised.

Previous thread: a lot of this has already been discussed.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...ce-insert-for-mid-century-modern-home.132821/

 

[Clymer76]

I've never seen a flue or celing support installed with such tight clearances and would want to know what is behind that brick. The Rais is a very high quality stove and a modern design. It is undersized to heat the whole house. Still I would hang on to it if possible.

The fireplace is a bit quirky. One option would be to take the current hearth down lower and extend it so that a freestanding rear exit stove could be installed in front of it.

Hi Begreen, thanks for replying. Once it warms up, I am gong to remove and fix the ceiling area and see what's above it. And yes, I plan to hang onto the RAIS and use it in another location in the house. If you look at the picture of the fireplace where I originally wanted to place the insert, do you thinks it's possible to find a large insert that will fit in there? I originally wanted to place an Osburn 2400 insert in there, however with the taper of the fireplace side walls I am afraid the insert will jut out beyond it's acceptable range. Are there any large inserts that would fit the dimensions of that fireplace? Ideally I would rather keep the RAIS where it is and not move 600 lbs around the house. The original plan was to have an insert and the RAIS together, but didn't think I could find an insert that would fit and meet our heating needs.

 

[Clymer76]

Not sure why one of my post is being displayed in the quote box, I apologize for that.

 

[begreen]

We'll need full dimensions for the fireplace, front back and depth. It looks shallow and very narrow in the back, but looks can be deceiving.

 

[Clymer76]

We'll need full dimensions for the fireplace, front back and depth. It looks shallow and very narrow in the back, but looks can be deceiving.

Please see attached:

 

[Poindexter]

Judging by your pictures in both threads I would be inclined to leave the fireplace alone, rip out the water damaged drywall over the existing stove, replace all the flue/chimney pipe, and look for a "vertical wood burning stove" like one of these:

https://www.google.com/search?q=vertical wood burning stoves&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=923&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=_z2zVKu0O5DfoASst4II&ved=0CCsQsAQ

I spent a little time on it, and didn't see one particular one to suggest. Considering your proximity to the Big Apple an EPA cert model that produces 2.5 gr/hr or less on the EPA lab cycle would probably be a good idea.

Otherwise I think your pay back period is going to be pretty long. Re-doing your fireplace, or adding to your existing stove hearth to fit a horizontal box style american stove is going to be a pretty penny.

If you can't find a vertical stove that makes enough BTUs at an efficiency likely to be legal for a good long time, I would personally (if I owned the building) want to rip out the water damaged drywall, install new flue/chimney and get the roof fixed, and increase the hearth size to fit whatever horizontal box stove you want. It's the path of least resistance if you can make it aesthetically pleasing. Looks like a nice place.

The good news if you do find a vertical model that might meet your needs the one dealer in the USA is likely in NYC and your delivery charge will be less than any brickwork you might otherwise undertake.

EDIT: I hope you are getting your wood in now so it will have all summer to season...

 

[mstoelton]

Based on your dimensions, it appears that several inserts will fit into your space. You need to figure out which ones are attractive to you and if they will fit. Most have a specs page that will show dimensions needed.

The insert may not seat exactly at the rear of your fireplace, but that is OK. Critical will be if you have enough hearth from the front glass of the insert to be acceptable. This is usually 18 inches but may differ on some inserts.

I looked up the dimensions of the Clydesdale and it says it is 24 inches wide at the rear, this would fit into the space but not all the way back to the back wall so the insert could sit out from the opening a few inches. The way the surround is made, it allows the insert a few inches of adjustment so this should not be an issue. Most inserts are built with this sort of flexibility. Please note: I chose to look at the Clydesdale specs because I'm very familiar with the stove, you may not like it and that is OK I just wanted to look at it to see if it would work in your opening. I think it would but you would likely need the extended surround for your width.

Each insert is going to be a little different. You will need to find one that works for you aesthetically and then determine if it will fit.

 

[begreen]

The Clydesdale if it will fit, is a good choice. It has clean lines that will go with a contemporary interior and is a good heater. How tall is the fireplace opening?

 

[begreen]

Assuming a 25" high opening - please verify, a Regency 3100i would fit, but stick out an inch. The inch could be hidden with a filler piece attached to the surround and painted black. A Pacific Energy Summit also looks like it will just fit. It also looks like the Quad 5100i should fit.