Need some help/ advice about wood stoves and hearth design/ structure.

[cvriv.charles]

Hello. My girlfriend and I bought a home several months ago. Shortly after we moved in I gutted out the basement completely. It was finished but the PO didn't do such a good job. I ripped out everything! The floors, walls, and ceiling. Nothing but exposed concrete.

Anyways,... we have a wall that has a chimney. It was used for a wood stove. It has been used in a while because the PO got rid of his wood stove and replace it with a propane heater. Well I got rid of the heater and want a wood stove. Now he had a brick wall cemented up against the cinder block wall. But I ripped that down too. I did not like it at all. I want to build my own custom hearth. I have never owned a wood stove and built a hearth before. We do not have a wood stove yet. But I would like to start building the hearth soon.

I am having a bit of trouble deciding what I want for a hearth. I have checked the galleries here on this site and WOW, you guys have some nice hearths. I also saw online how one guy built his hearth by creating a frame covered with ceramic tiles. There are so many ways to make em. I am having trouble deciding what I want. Now I am a bit familar with the codes. A tiny bit. I know that a stove without heat shielding has to be 36" from the hearth. And with heat shielding it can be 12" from the wall. A UL rated stove. I would like a stove I can install 12" from the wall.

Also,... my girlfriend likes the idea of using those flat stones that can be cemented down to create a rock like face. Used alot on the outside of a house. I like this idea too. This would most likely require wood framing right? I never worked with stones and cement before. Masonry. I also like the idea of using nothing but stones or stone like brick and cement. No wooden framing. Because this seems to be more solid and longer lasting. I really dont want my hearth to crack and fall apart. I have seen many do so. Very unattractive.

Overal we are looking for a very natural earthy looking hearth. Here is a model I made as I was just playing around to see what I am wanting. It is actually pretty close to what we want. But the wall layout is exactly what we have in the basement wher ethe stove will be. Any tips or suggestion would be great. I am just wondering what is the best or most common way to make a hearth? I know there isnt a best way but what about a common?

Ok,... if I made an uber strong frame using 2x4's and several sheets of .75" plywood,... would I be able to cement stones to that? Would I have to worry about the cement cracking or anything? I saw some hearths where the area where the stove sits on top in thick. Like 12+ inches. Whats inside there to give that height? All conrete and stones? A wood frame?

 

[SolarAndWood]

Welcome to the forum. I assume from your post that the goal is a warm and comfy room as opposed to heating the house? The reason I ask is that heating from the basement with a stove presents a lot of challenges. You can do a search as they are well documented here.

Every stove has its own set of wall clearances to meet. Some require insulating protection on the floor while others just require spark protection. If you have the space, I would build the hearth for worst case as your first stove likely won't be your last. Good luck with your project and get your hands on some wood now so that it is good and dry when you get your hearth done..

 

[firefighterjake]

Hello. My girlfriend and I bought a home several months ago. Shortly after we moved in I gutted out the basement completely. It was finished but the PO didn't do such a good job. I ripped out everything! The floors, walls, and ceiling. Nothing but exposed concrete.

Anyways,... we have a wall that has a chimney. It was used for a wood stove. It has been used in a while because the PO got rid of his wood stove and replace it with a propane heater. Well I got rid of the heater and want a wood stove. Now he had a brick wall cemented up against the cinder block wall. But I ripped that down too. I did not like it at all. I want to build my own custom hearth. I have never owned a wood stove and built a hearth before. We do not have a wood stove yet. But I would like to start building the hearth soon.

As mentioned, basement installs with woodstoves can sometimes be dicey. Some folks with them are very happy. Some folks with them are less than happy. In general it is far better to install the stove where folks will be spending most of their time . . . and in general on a first floor is better. If you do a search for basement installations you will see how some folks have had good luck . . . and some have had issues which they have had to resolve.

Before you go building a hearth I would suggest you figure out what stove you will be using since different stoves have different hearth construction requirements. My stove for example only required ember protection which meant I could pretty much put down any non-combustible material . . . other stoves require specific R value requirements which may mean using air space, special insulation sheets, etc. Before you go to the effort of building a hearth, you really should decide what stove will be on the hearth if possible . . . it would be a shame to build a beautiful hearth and then find out that the stove you bought is not safe to install on the hearth.

I am having a bit of trouble deciding what I want for a hearth. I have checked the galleries here on this site and WOW, you guys have some nice hearths. I also saw online how one guy built his hearth by creating a frame covered with ceramic tiles. There are so many ways to make em. I am having trouble deciding what I want. Now I am a bit familar with the codes. A tiny bit. I know that a stove without heat shielding has to be 36" from the hearth. And with heat shielding it can be 12" from the wall. A UL rated stove. I would like a stove I can install 12" from the wall.

Well not quite . . . while it is true that unlisted (non UL approved) stoves are required to have 36 inches of clearance, many of the old stoves and almost all of the new EPA stoves have lower clearance requirements . . . again . . . they all depend on the make/model and what they have for features. As an example, with my stove I can put it within X inches of the wall . . . but when I add an optional rear heat shield that comes on the stove I can get even closer to the wall . . . although being the anal retentive safety guru that I am I opted to keep it out a bit.

Also,... my girlfriend likes the idea of using those flat stones that can be cemented down to create a rock like face. Used alot on the outside of a house. I like this idea too. This would most likely require wood framing right? I never worked with stones and cement before. Masonry. I also like the idea of using nothing but stones or stone like brick and cement. No wooden framing. Because this seems to be more solid and longer lasting. I really dont want my hearth to crack and fall apart. I have seen many do so. Very unattractive.

Overal we are looking for a very natural earthy looking hearth. Here is a model I made as I was just playing around to see what I am wanting. It is actually pretty close to what we want. But the wall layout is exactly what we have in the basement wher ethe stove will be. Any tips or suggestion would be great. I am just wondering what is the best or most common way to make a hearth? I know there isnt a best way but what about a common?

Ok,... if I made an uber strong frame using 2x4's and several sheets of .75" plywood,... would I be able to cement stones to that? Would I have to worry about the cement cracking or anything? I saw some hearths where the area where the stove sits on top in thick. Like 12+ inches. Whats inside there to give that height? All conrete and stones? A wood frame?

I'm afraid I can't help much about your hearth construction questions as I build a relatively simple hearth out of plywood, Durock and slate tile. I will say however that as long as the hearth is not flexible and meets the R value requirement and clearances using a mix of wood and stone should not be an issue . . . the key being that it be rigid.

 

[cvriv.charles]

Thanks guys. Good advice. Well,... i guess our goal was to only heat the basement up. That and we just wanted to nice looking wood stove. Actually we wanted a fireplace but it would be to much of a hassle to put one in. So we are settling for a wood stove. Which is good because we will get more heat out of burning wood. Now I know that heat will rise through the ceiling. The added heat upstairs is fine with me. But how much heat that remains in the basement,... I dont know. My ceiling is open so if I had to insulate it I could but I dont know if I should. I am very sure that if we dont we will still benefit from the wood stove. We dont really have an attic either seeing that the attic is a bed room. Well half of it is and the other half is open to the kitchen and sit in room. Kind of like one big room.

Anyways,... I guess we should get a stove first then. We have the space but seriously dont dont the heart to take up to much space. As for building a frame for the hearth,... it would have to be rock solid. I would be shy with wood making a frame fo it. Im just wondering if I should make a frame. Or if I should pick out the stones or bricks and just pile em up with concrete. You know? Im thinking that nuilding a frame out of wood,... would be cheaper. But I would worry about the concrete cracking. The wood shrinks and expands. Even if the wood was dry when I built it. It sitting on the basement floor where water vapor rises up would make it,... not as dry as before. the wood stove with enough use would dry it out and if I stoppped using it for a semi long period of time I would think the wood would dampen again and expand. You know? Am I right about that? This is why I like the idea of piling up the bricks to make the hearth. No wood. If I was making a hearth for upstairs that would be different. Because the wood wouldnt be sitting on or even close to the basement concrete.

Anyways I'll do some searching of this forum.

 

[weatherguy]

Actually we wanted a fireplace but it would be to much of a hassle to put one in.

You could put a highly efficient wood burning fireplace for heat since your starting from scratch.

heres a sample: theres lots more out there

 

[Lumber-Jack]

Thanks guys. Good advice. Well,... i guess our goal was to only heat the basement up. That and we just wanted to nice looking wood stove. Actually we wanted a fireplace but it would be to much of a hassle to put one in. So we are settling for a wood stove. Which is good because we will get more heat out of burning wood. Now I know that heat will rise through the ceiling. The added heat upstairs is fine with me. But how much heat that remains in the basement,... I dont know. My ceiling is open so if I had to insulate it I could but I dont know if I should. I am very sure that if we dont we will still benefit from the wood stove. We dont really have an attic either seeing that the attic is a bed room. Well half of it is and the other half is open to the kitchen and sit in room. Kind of like one big room.

Anyways,... I guess we should get a stove first then. We have the space but seriously dont dont the heart to take up to much space. As for building a frame for the hearth,... it would have to be rock solid. I would be shy with wood making a frame fo it. Im just wondering if I should make a frame. Or if I should pick out the stones or bricks and just pile em up with concrete. You know? Im thinking that nuilding a frame out of wood,... would be cheaper. But I would worry about the concrete cracking. The wood shrinks and expands. Even if the wood was dry when I built it. It sitting on the basement floor where water vapor rises up would make it,... not as dry as before. the wood stove with enough use would dry it out and if I stoppped using it for a semi long period of time I would think the wood would dampen again and expand. You know? Am I right about that? This is why I like the idea of piling up the bricks to make the hearth. No wood. If I was making a hearth for upstairs that would be different. Because the wood wouldnt be sitting on or even close to the basement concrete.

Anyways I'll do some searching of this forum.

You are wise to recognize that potential problem, but there is a simple fix, you simply lay down a vapor barrier (poly) under the hearth framework.
Also, to prevent any cracking, when you frame up a wooden hearth make sure you use a good adhesive/filler like (broken link removed to http://www.lepageproducts.com/products/subcategory.asp?catid=22&subid=187) and build up your plywood (two layers of 3/4" =1 1/2" thick). Put some PL400 even on the bottom of the joist that sit on the poly on the floor. This will fill any unevenness or irregularities between the joist and the floor and give you a more solid footing.

 

[cvriv.charles]

Thanks guys. Good advice. Well,... i guess our goal was to only heat the basement up. That and we just wanted to nice looking wood stove. Actually we wanted a fireplace but it would be to much of a hassle to put one in. So we are settling for a wood stove. Which is good because we will get more heat out of burning wood. Now I know that heat will rise through the ceiling. The added heat upstairs is fine with me. But how much heat that remains in the basement,... I dont know. My ceiling is open so if I had to insulate it I could but I dont know if I should. I am very sure that if we dont we will still benefit from the wood stove. We dont really have an attic either seeing that the attic is a bed room. Well half of it is and the other half is open to the kitchen and sit in room. Kind of like one big room.

Anyways,... I guess we should get a stove first then. We have the space but seriously dont dont the heart to take up to much space. As for building a frame for the hearth,... it would have to be rock solid. I would be shy with wood making a frame fo it. Im just wondering if I should make a frame. Or if I should pick out the stones or bricks and just pile em up with concrete. You know? Im thinking that nuilding a frame out of wood,... would be cheaper. But I would worry about the concrete cracking. The wood shrinks and expands. Even if the wood was dry when I built it. It sitting on the basement floor where water vapor rises up would make it,... not as dry as before. the wood stove with enough use would dry it out and if I stoppped using it for a semi long period of time I would think the wood would dampen again and expand. You know? Am I right about that? This is why I like the idea of piling up the bricks to make the hearth. No wood. If I was making a hearth for upstairs that would be different. Because the wood wouldnt be sitting on or even close to the basement concrete.

Anyways I'll do some searching of this forum.

You are wise to recognize that potential problem, but there is a simple fix, you simply lay down a vapor barrier (poly) under the hearth framework.
Also, to prevent any cracking, when you frame up a wooden hearth make sure you use a good adhesive/filler like (broken link removed to http://www.lepageproducts.com/products/subcategory.asp?catid=22&subid=187) and build up your plywood (two layers of 3/4" =1 1/2" thick). Put some PL400 even on the bottom of the joist that sit on the poly on the floor. This will fill any unevenness or irregularities between the joist and the floor and give you a more solid footing.

Excellent tips. If I do go ahead and frame a hearth I will do just that. But what about condensation building up under the poly sheet used as a vapor barrier? Before I did any work in the basement I researched moisture in basements and it was said that vapor/ moisture barriers such as paint like sealants and even plastic sheeting was not good because the moisture would accumulate under the barrier. I read that the best way to deal with it is to not barrier at all. To leave the concrete exposed so that the moisture can evaporate. We will never be able to get rid of it. That the best thing to do is to keep it moving. Kind of like a stream of water. Moving water is almost always cleaner than stagnate water.

 

[Lumber-Jack]

Thanks guys. Good advice. Well,... i guess our goal was to only heat the basement up. That and we just wanted to nice looking wood stove. Actually we wanted a fireplace but it would be to much of a hassle to put one in. So we are settling for a wood stove. Which is good because we will get more heat out of burning wood. Now I know that heat will rise through the ceiling. The added heat upstairs is fine with me. But how much heat that remains in the basement,... I dont know. My ceiling is open so if I had to insulate it I could but I dont know if I should. I am very sure that if we dont we will still benefit from the wood stove. We dont really have an attic either seeing that the attic is a bed room. Well half of it is and the other half is open to the kitchen and sit in room. Kind of like one big room.

Anyways,... I guess we should get a stove first then. We have the space but seriously dont dont the heart to take up to much space. As for building a frame for the hearth,... it would have to be rock solid. I would be shy with wood making a frame fo it. Im just wondering if I should make a frame. Or if I should pick out the stones or bricks and just pile em up with concrete. You know? Im thinking that nuilding a frame out of wood,... would be cheaper. But I would worry about the concrete cracking. The wood shrinks and expands. Even if the wood was dry when I built it. It sitting on the basement floor where water vapor rises up would make it,... not as dry as before. the wood stove with enough use would dry it out and if I stoppped using it for a semi long period of time I would think the wood would dampen again and expand. You know? Am I right about that? This is why I like the idea of piling up the bricks to make the hearth. No wood. If I was making a hearth for upstairs that would be different. Because the wood wouldnt be sitting on or even close to the basement concrete.

Anyways I'll do some searching of this forum.

You are wise to recognize that potential problem, but there is a simple fix, you simply lay down a vapor barrier (poly) under the hearth framework.
Also, to prevent any cracking, when you frame up a wooden hearth make sure you use a good adhesive/filler like (broken link removed to http://www.lepageproducts.com/products/subcategory.asp?catid=22&subid=187) and build up your plywood (two layers of 3/4" =1 1/2" thick). Put some PL400 even on the bottom of the joist that sit on the poly on the floor. This will fill any unevenness or irregularities between the joist and the floor and give you a more solid footing.

Excellent tips. If I do go ahead and frame a hearth I will do just that. But what about condensation building up under the poly sheet used as a vapor barrier? Before I did any work in the basement I researched moisture in basements and it was said that vapor/ moisture barriers such as paint like sealants and even plastic sheeting was not good because the moisture would accumulate under the barrier. I read that the best way to deal with it is to not barrier at all. To leave the concrete exposed so that the moisture can evaporate. We will never be able to get rid of it. That the best thing to do is to keep it moving. Kind of like a stream of water. Moving water is almost always cleaner than stagnate water.

Again, I can see it's clear you have done your homework.
Any time that you pour a cement slab on the ground there is a good chance you'll get moisture wicking up from the ground through the concrete slab. Actually it can go both ways, up and down. With an outside driveway or sidewalk, this moisture isn't a problem but in a house it can be a problem, so most diligent contractors will lay out a vapor barrier on the ground before pouring an inside concrete floor, or slush coat in the case of a crawl space. You may already have that under the concrete in your basement, we just don't know. So to be safe with your hearth you can put an (extra) vapor barrier on top of the concrete under your wooden hearth. Any moisture that condenses there will not hurt anything. The problem with some paints or other sealants on a concrete floor is if you have a lot of moisture under your floor, and no vapor barrier under your concrete, it will migrate up through the concrete until it hits that paint or sealant barrier and exert a force underneath causing the paint or sealant to blister and separate from the concrete. I see this all the time with old stucco houses that have no inside vapor barrier, and have been painted over the stucco with a glossy paint that doesn't allow the moisture to wick through. The moisture builds up under the paint and the paint peels right off.
You don't have to worry about the poly under your hearth, it's not going anywhere. Any excess moisture will wick to the sides, AWAY from your hearth.

 

[mdxman1234]

Hi


I wish to share this downloadable folder which I gathered from hundreds of resources in my search for a fireplace designs for my new home which am Finishing-Thanks God- Now.
The folder contains more than 300 images of fireplaces(stone, cultured stone,marble,venere and rumford, french designs… and more) beside many DIY manuals about fireplace inserts, consctructing fireplaces, maintaning them and wood burning tips. I will be posting more soon and the folder is being updated from time to then I hope it is not forbidden to share rapidshare folders.

Please enjoy the download:

The file is 67 MB and is worth seeing I hope!!

This new folder contains Much more images of Fireplace designs, beside the previous folder is incorporated inside here. Please follow the download link:



I appreciate any input from you, I would love to get more images if you have any to update the two folders.


Thanks

Mdxman

 

[begreen]

This is not the appropriate way to introduce yourself. The URL points to Saudi Arabia not Jordan. Do you have a website? That would be a more appropriate way to share this information. We can't risk Hearth.com members systems getting infected with unknown downloaded files. The file links have been removed.

 

[mdxman1234]

Hi Alderlea


I truely come from Jordan and I live in saudi Arabia, No offence, Mate! and regarding the two download links I assure you they do not contain any infectious stuff, 100 % they are clean,my intention was to share the files, and regarding their content I didnt know the forum forbids sharing content and downloadable stuff from the net. as you have removed them , I understand this is a rule. For the mean time accept my apologies if this offended you or anybody.

Have a good day.

mdxman

 

[precaud]

You could put a highly efficient wood burning fireplace for heat since your starting from scratch.
heres a sample: theres lots more out there

That's a beautiful installation and a great idea, IF it is built on an interior wall. Putting something like this on an exterior wall is like building a heat superhighway to the great outdoors. The increased mass stores lots of btu's but they will always gravitate toward the area of greatest temperature differential which it is coupled to, which is the outside wall...