Need some help/advice

[dp16]

Here is my situation...the wife and I just bought our first home and are learning the hard way it seems. The house has electric baseboard heat so we were hoping to burn wood to cut down on some of the costs of heating. I had the chimney cleaned and with the advice of some of you I took the top plate off of the insert and it revealed that the insert has no piping from the top of the stove/damper to the chimney.

I have asked around and have been told that this stove probably needs an 8" chimney liner (costly). My thought was to get a liner this year and potentially a new insert next year, but the the dealer I talked to advised against that since new stoves use 6" pipes.

The house is a bi-level and the insert is in the lower level. We plan to spend most of our time in the winter in the upper level so here are my questions...

Do I spend the money to have the current (80's) stove retro-fitted with a chimney liner?

Do I try to buy a new insert and liner or

Do I buy a smaller stand alone wood or pellet burning stove to put on the upper level?

I am a new home owner and new to wood burners so any info and/or advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[begreen]

Post some info on the house size, floorplan, ceiling height, the fireplace location etc. so that we can better assess the heating load. Also, what is your lifestyle? Will someone be home during the day or not? Do you already have wood cut, split and stacked that is seasoned?

For a pellet stove you can check the pellet forum to see what pellets are selling for in your area and what are the good brands vs the poor ones. A pellet stove will need about a bag a day feeding in milder weather and 2 bags a day in colder weather.

 

[dp16]

The house is a 2200 sq foot bi-level with 8' ceilings (drop ceiling in the lower level). Both levels are finished, lower level is about 3' below the ground level. Guest bedroom, 2nd bathroom, family room on lower level (all rooms have individual thermostats to control heat on/off), main level is living room, dining room, kitchent, bath, bedrooms. Upper/lower level are joined by split staircase at the foyer. Fireplace is on an exterior wall adjacent to the garage below the upstairs living room. Just moved into the house about 45 days ago so we don't have wood in place, but have access to seasoned split wood from a friend who cuts/sells for a living. Generally, the wife and I home in the evenings and on the weekends.

 

[begreen]

Ok, that sounds doable. How many sq ft.? Do you have the fireplace interior dimensions?

 

[dp16]

Ok, that sounds doable. How many sq ft.? Do you have the fireplace interior dimensions?

The house is 2200 sq ft (1100 up and 1100 down). I do not have the interior dimensions now, I will have to see if I can get them tonight.

 

[dp16]

Fireplace dimensions are 36w x 28 h x 18.5 deep. The width and height are at the front. The box tapers slightly to the back.

 

[begreen]

OK, you can put a decent sized insert into there. I would look in the 2.5 to 3.0 cu ft range. There are several choices and trim options depending on what you fancy.

 

[dp16]

Thank you. I guess my biggest question is with the insert downstairs, will enough heat make it upstairs to the main living area and bedrooms to cut down on the use of the electric heat or would I be better off installing a smaller stand alone stove on the upper level? Sorry if these are dumb questions, but I really don't want to spend a ton of money and be no better off.

 

[begreen]

If there is a big, wide open staircase going to the upper level then a large insert in the lower level fireplace should heat the house pretty well. One very important factor in assuring success will be having a good supply of fully seasoned, dry wood on hand.

 

[dp16]

If there is a big, wide open staircase going to the upper level then a large insert in the lower level fireplace should heat the house pretty well. One very important factor in assuring success will be having a good supply of fully seasoned, dry wood on hand.

Thank you. There is a split level (steps up, foyer, steps up) stair case between floors. Having just moved in we will have to purchase wood to get started this year, but will be able to cut for future use.

 

[begreen]

Beware when purchasing wood. An awful lot of what is sold as "seasoned" is not. Firewood doesn't really start seasoning until it is split and stacked. Some hardwoods like oak and hickory need 2 yrs to fully seasoned. Ash would be a better bet for this season. Your best bet this year would be to find a wood seller that has a good established reputation. Ask when the wood was split and how it was seasoned. If it is shed or barn dried, that would be a plus. Sometimes kiln dried is also an option.

 

[dp16]

Beware when purchasing wood. An awful lot of what is sold as "seasoned" is not. Firewood doesn't really start seasoning until it is split and stacked. Some hardwoods like oak and hickory need 2 yrs to fully seasoned. Ash would be a better bet for this season. Your best bet this year would be to find a wood seller that has a good established reputation. Ask when the wood was split and how it was seasoned. If it is shed or barn dried, that would be a plus. Sometimes kiln dried is also an option.

Thank you for the tips. There is alot more to this than just lighting a fire and letting it go...wow! Thanks again.

 

[woodhog73]

If it were me I would get a modern insert rather than trying to retrofit the old one for a 6 inch liner.

I'm not an expert but my guts telling me 1) the old stove is not nearly as efficient as a new one and 2) the old stove was designed for an 8 inch liner according to your post so even if you can retro fit a 6 inch(not sure ?? ) I imagine the old stove won't run as well with the smaller liner.

If at all possible it seems best to just make the plunge and upgrade to a new modern efficient insert stove and 6 inch liner. if a new stoves not in the cards this year you have to ask yourself do you invest in making the old one work or just wait until you can do the entire system.

As for heating your upstairs. Do you have ceiling fans ? If you do run it in reverse so it helps pull the warm air up to the second level. If you don't I wouldn't think installing a ceiling fan would be too costly. It's a split level ? If so I'd want a ceiling fan at the top of the steps on the 2nd level to pull warm air up.

If your going with a pellet stove as you mentioned check on prices for pellets. I know nothing about them but you have to purchase pellets. Could be costly especially if you have access to free wood down the road.

Also since your current insert doesn't have a liner it is just using the chimneys flue , which I'm sure you have read by now is dangerous from a fire hazard perspective ( although people used to do it that way for years and years ) have you considered just taking the insert out and using the open fire place ? Until you invest in a new efficient stove insert and new liner ? Could be an option. An open fire place won't give much heat because most goes up the chimney, but my instincts telling me it's safer than running an insert that's not direct connected to it's own liner.

Last thought on the pellet vs wood stove thing for many people cutting wood and processing firewood becomes a hobby and a good workout if your into the fitness thing. Many people take great pride in building their wood stacks in the yard. Pellets sound boring to me but just my thoughts and opinions

 

[EatenByLimestone]

What's your insulation like? You're going to need a bigger stove and more wood if you're trying to heat the outdoors!

 

[dp16]

According the house inspector, when we bought the house it is well insulated...I guess only time will tell

 

[begreen]

It would be helpful to get some heating history for the house. Maybe contact the power company to get the past few year's monthly power consumption?

 

[Woody Stover]

Beware when purchasing wood. An awful lot of what is sold as "seasoned" is not

Thank you for the tips. There is alot more to this than just lighting a fire and letting it go...wow! Thanks again.

You say this wood dealer is a friend...maybe he does have some dry wood for you. Many of the wood species they have in N. MI dries pretty fast, I think. But I would re-split several splits and check them with a moisture meter, to be sure what you will actually be dealing with. Sounds like you may have access to a woodlot. If you have some small standing dead trees with the bark gone, that stuff may already be dry enough to burn right now.
What about this stairway to the upstairs....how wide is it, and can the hot air on the ceiling flow right from the drop ceiling into the stairwell? Will the stove be pretty close to the stairway? My BIL's downstairs stove will move some heat upstairs. He can close off some rooms down there to concentrate heat around the stove area, which is close to the stairway. He only has a normal width staircase but it works decently to move the heat up. When it gets cold and windy out, he's firing the upstairs stove, though.

 

[dp16]

Hoping to get some answers this week on cost for a stove/liner and what is available for wood. The staircase is standard width, maybe a little wider. It is a split staircase. From the lower level, you walk up the stairs to the foyer (front door), then turn right and up the stairs. The ceiling in the foyer is high (maybe 12') and open to the first floor. Stove is about 20-25' from the staircase and all the doors downstairs can be closed.

 

[dp16]

I am looking at a Buck Stove Model 85:

• HEAT CAPACITY: 1,600 – 2,700 Sq. Feet
• EPA Tested Output BTU/H: 45,000
• EMISSIONS G/H: 4.3
• CUBIC FEET FIREBOX VOLUME: 2.4
• FIREWOOD LENGTH: 18″(front to back)17″(side to side)
• ASHPAN: YES
• BLOWER: YES
• FLU SIZE: 6″
• EFFICIENCY: 78%

Any idea how this stove and new flue liner would work for my particular setup? Any opinions or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. In my area there is a Buck Stove, Napolean and Osburn dealer. Thanks.

 

[begreen]

The 85 will work, but I'd also consider the big Osburn 2400 given those 3 stove company choices, if it will fit. It's on sale this week. Look at ~3.0 cu ft inserts with a 6" flue collar.

 

[dp16]

Thank you for the tip. I will check into the osburn as well.

 

[dp16]

Still waiting on a call back from the Osburn dealer. Left messages Mon, Tues, Wed but found that we also have a hearthstone dealer. As I am new to this game, are there significant benefits to the hearthstone (cost is much higher) inserts? The model they suggested was the Clydesdale at a cost of 3500, which is more than I can really spend since I have to have a liner installed as well. Dealer said he would work on the price and see what he could do. We will see. As I said, not really in my ballpark, but before I consider it I thought I would ask here. Sorry for all the dumb questions, but I am lost and a little frustrated at this point.

 

[begreen]

Keep on bugging the Osburn dealer. This may be a small shop and they could be out installing right now. Or maybe order from here. Their sale price for the 2400 insert is $2029.
https://www.osburnwoodstoves.com/Osburn_Wood_Insert_s/1814.htm

 

[capri_auto]

If budget is a factor, I wouldn't overlook the idea of finding a lightly used preowned unit and doing a self install. Ebay, craigslist and other online markets have some real good deals. I installed/ purchased a jotul c450 for less than going price of just labor. Took a day. It's worth a look IMHO.

 

[begreen]

Just make sure it fits before buying.