Nervous and disappointed - Quadr-Fire Voyageur VIDEO

[begreen]

What BB did is a different approach to a somewhat different situation that takes greater observation, knowledge and tweaking. Also, an insert is much more cumbersome to work on than an open stove. I am trying to help users here with the more general case and solutions as described by Gulland.

Dustin, I tend to agree that a spring-loaded start up air control is just one more point to fail later in the life of the stove. I believe in KISS stove design.

 

[velvetfoot]

I like Dustin's approach. How could the OP plug those holes so that it's easily reversible, for testing purposes? Does the furnace cement chip out easily. Maybe screws

 

[oldspark]

I see its time to break out the welder and torch, not happy about people modifying these stoves either.

 

[Rick8325]

Further above you said "The ACC lever is OFF - Up and out." and here you are saying "Yes, that's how I have it"... ACC is ON with it up and out.

??

Page 10 of the manual says:
If you need to shut the ACC system off before it shuts itself off after 25 minutes (i.e. overfire situation), lift up on the Start-up Air Control and pull away from the appliance.

I leave it up and out so it's off. The stove gets enough air because it's always roaring. I think Rickb misread the manual. ACC is off for up and out on the lever. That is the manual override.

 

[Rick8325]

I have a 2010 Quad 4300 with the ACC setup and hate it like the plague. After getting sick of not being able to control the fire, I took the heat shields off both sides of the stove and carefully examined the primary air, front air and rear air setup. The way the ACC system is set up, you can not totally close any of the air intakes regardless of where you put the levers if the heat shields are in place. With the shields off, I can manually push the front and rear air intakes closed, but with the shields on, you can't see or get at them. As for the primary air, even with the lever "closed", there was still about a 3/8 gap. I put some magnetic tape over the remaining gap, and with the shields off, am able to open and close all of the air intakes to precisely regulate the fire. The stove is not pretty with the shields off, and it's also not "safe", but I am going to have a buddy of mine who is a welder do some cutting of the heat shields to allow access to the air intakes. This morning at 5:00 PM, I pulled out a layer of ash and dead chunks to allow a reasonably full reload. In went a good mix of sugar maple and white ash; never having seen this before, I am stunned to see the stove still putting out a lot of heat with a huge coal bed at 1:00 PM. People with Blaze King stoves will probably laugh at such short burn times, but I am thrilled with it. I hate Quadra Fire.

My installer took the metal shield off when he was putting the trim kit on. I have it. It's a metal plate that screwed into the right side of the stove. I don't even know what it does or if it causing this issue of air flow.

 

[branchburner]

My "start up air" lever ceased to function properly and I was unable to control the fire.

Hmmm... this could lead to an overfire of the stove, and then possibly to one saying, "I think the Automatic Combustion Control mechanism got hot and burned itself up."

A new classic line, fifty years after the flight engineer in Dr. Strangelove got to say: "I think the auto-destruct mechanism got hit and blew itself up."

 

[northwinds]

If the Quad dealer did your install, I would be requesting a return trip to see what can be done. The first thing to check is whether the ACC is broken or not. If it's a natural condition of too much draft, then maybe the opening can be adjusted. Your heat is all going up the chimney, and you don't have a controllable. fire. I would be nervous and disappointed too.

 

[Rick8325]

If the Quad dealer did your install, I would be requesting a return trip to see what can be done. The first thing to check is whether the ACC is broken or not. If it's a natural condition of too much draft, then maybe the opening can be adjusted. Your heat is all going up the chimney, and you don't have a controllable. fire. I would be nervous and disappointed too.

Yeah I'll probably have to call the guy that installed it back over. Dealer did not install it. I called about 30 installers and everyone was booked solid for months. I finally got someone to install it. From what I've been told, the heat shield should not have been removed. The room it's installed in was the coldest room in the house by 3-5 degrees lower than the rest of the house. It's still like this with a roaring fire. If my wife says "it's freezing in here" one more time.....! I've had tiny space heaters that heat better than this stove. What is the opening can and where is it located?

 

[molly1414]

Our quad 3100 that came with our house did the same thing. Drove me insane to the point I really hated that stove. We were unable to control the fire or shut it down enough to get the secondaries going good, eating up a ton of wood and no heat. Finally figured out that we could not even get to the rear intake holes to cover them or modify them even with the heat shields off. Got so sick of it we sold it and bought an Oslo. Sometime the Oslo gets out of control with energy logs or a sappy piece of wood but it's easy to cover the rear intake with a piece of foil to bring it back to earth.

 

[RockyMtnHigh]

Man that sucks. My ACC works great. I only use it on a DEAD cold start or with a hardwood reload with a tiny bed of coals.

 

[Rick8325]

Well the thing is, I don't even need to use the ACC. The stove is just too inconsistent with air intake. Right now I have 3 logs in it and it's burning low. Throwing off no heat. The room is still colder than rest of the house which is unacceptable. This purchase may go down as my worst ever. $3700 for nothing. I could have heated my house to 70 with my gas furnace non stop for 5 winters for what I paid for this thing.

 

[RockyMtnHigh]

I'm sorry to hear that. I do have to say I'm a lot more impressed by the freestanding Quads than the inserts. It does sound like you may have a warranty issue on your hands....

 

[northwinds]

I've had good heat output by both my Quad stove and insert. But my insert does not have ACC.

The inconsistency is a little puzzling, Rick. It's burning low? Are you getting secondary action. What setting is your fan?

 

[GeneralBill]

It's still like this with a roaring fire. If my wife says "it's freezing in here" one more time.....! I've had tiny space heaters that heat better than this stove.

You probably don't want to hear this now while you have bigger problems, but it seems odd that the room is cold even with a roaring fire. Sounds like that room is the coldest due to air leaks and the fire is pulling yet more air inside. You might want an OAK.

 

[Rickb]

Also speaking to heat did they insulate the insert or put in a block off plate? They wont effect your raging burn rate but it will effect heat introduced into the room.

 

[Makers Mark]

Also speaking to heat did they insulate the insert or put in a block off plate? They wont effect your raging burn rate but it will effect heat introduced into the room.

My son and I installed new Voyaguer grand Friday at my house stuffed roxul in at top and bottom then put in block off plate and stainless top on chimney. I opened front and put on small plate, then took off oak plate on side. I have old ash dump get outside air from. It is working perfect. Gas hasn't came on since Fri.

 

[Paul L]

My installer took the metal shield off when he was putting the trim kit on. I have it. It's a metal plate that screwed into the right side of the stove. I don't even know what it does or if it causing this issue of air flow.

1. Open up your manual to page 40 and look at figure 40.2. Is this square plate the plate that was removed? This is the cover plate that is to be removed only if you are installing Outside Air and could very well be the source of your problem, Rick.

2. To check to see if your ACC is working ... when you have a bed of coals, move them to the front of the firebox, right in the center. When you engage the ACC control by pushing in and then pulling out, you will see the coals light up as ACC air enters in the center front of the firebox, right down at the level of the firebrick floor. My Grand Voyageur does not have the ability to shut down the ACC manually so what I do is wait an hour and if engaging the ACC again causes the coals to light up, I know that the ACC has indeed shut down properly on it's own.

 

[Rick8325]

1. Open up your manual to page 40 and look at figure 40.2. Is this square plate the plate that was removed? This is the cover plate that is to be removed only if you are installing Outside Air and could very well be the source of your problem, Rick.

Hi Paul, I have a message out to my installer about that square plate. I do not believe he took it off because he would have left it. He did however take the heat shield off which I told him I'd rather have put back on.

 

[Rick8325]

My son and I installed new Voyaguer grand Friday at my house stuffed roxul in at top and bottom then put in block off plate and stainless top on chimney. I opened front and put on small plate, then took off oak plate on side. I have old ash dump get outside air from. It is working perfect. Gas hasn't came on since Fri.

Also speaking to heat did they insulate the insert or put in a block off plate? They wont effect your raging burn rate but it will effect heat introduced into the room.

I have roxul at the top of the chimney under the cap and it is shoved up where the damper was above the insert. I do not have a block off plate but this method is better than nothing. There's zero draft coming in. We also removed the floor ash pit door and stuffed the opening with roxul.

 

[Rick8325]

I've been waiting for my dealer to get me a metal surround that will fill in the extra 2" gap at the top of the insert trim. I'm wondering if there is extra room air getting into the back of the insert because of that? There's roxul stuffed up by the old damper though and in the ash pit floor opening so no warm conditioned air is escaping and no cold outside air is entering.

 

[Rick8325]

Okay, I've taken some of the advice from you guys and I seem to have started to learn this stove some more. I've got the stove room to about 8 degrees warmer than the rest of the house. The living room where the fireplace is has a large staircase going up to the second floor so I know I'm losing a lot of heat going up but it's not getting hotter there. The thermostat for that floor is right at the top of the stairs. I think my problem is that I have a insulation problem in my living room. The room is always 5 degrees colder than the rest of the house. I'm having an energy audit done by my electric/gas company next month. They will run tests.

The Voyageur is eating right through the wood. It's really dry wood hardwood. My moisture tester will be here soon but I know it's dry because it was sitting in piles for years and it's starting to turn grayish. The black glass problem is gone. My stove thermometer was reading about 450 and stayed there for the majority of the evening. I'm still weary about stuffing this firebox to the brim because I think it will run out of control because the burn rate and ACC work whenever they want. I had a bad draft last night and I hadn't started a fire in about a week so I had quite a smoke show in my living room. I lit a rolled up paper and it seemed to heat up the flue and draft nice but once I shut the door it smoked and smoke came out near the burn rate lever and through the door which is weird because I did the dollar bill test and it's really tight. I think it may have been coming out from the glass and not near the gasket. Anyway, I'm going to try different wood instead of the free stuff I get at work. Hopefully when we figure out why the room is so cold all the time (it has 2 floor heat registers) and we can get it to be what the thermostat in the other room reads then the stove will start to heat up other rooms. Thanks again everyone for your advice. It's definitely been a learning experience.

 

[mellow]

Interesting that you are saying it is getting to much air and other users are complaining about the stove not getting enough air. I am certain it has to do with those plates being removed.

 

[Rick8325]

Interesting that you are saying it is getting to much air and other users are complaining about the stove not getting enough air. I am certain it has to do with those plates being removed.

Yeah I have no problem starting fires and keeping them going with the door closed as long as a good draft up the flue is established. The square side plate that would connect to an OAK is still on. The small plate by the blower knob behind the grate was removed. I still can't find out what the other long metal plate is for. It says "heat shield" in the manual. It was removed by my installer when the surround was put on and never re-installed. Don't know why there was just one for the right side of the stove. I think it needs to go back on. I can easily pull the stove out to access the area where it can be screwed back on.

 

[Paul L]

You are still complaining about the ACC but have you taken any steps to check it's function? I've already told you how I checked mine.

 

[branchburner]

I've got the stove room to about 8 degrees warmer than the rest of the house.

The Voyageur is eating right through the wood.

Is this still with the furnace kicking on even more for the rest of the house, with thermostat set to 66 ? Or is the stove helping heat the rest of the house, too, so you use the furnace less?

If you are using a ton of wood just to get that room to 74F, with rest of the house being heated by the furnace to 66F, it still sounds like you have a serious problem with too much air entering the stove, causing the rapid wood consumption and forcing the heat up the flue, without it being transferred into the living space... at least in amounts that would correspond to the potential heating value of all that wood.

Loads of two-year old oak, burning at a rate of 5 logs in 2 hours, don't just crumble to ash so quickly in a stove with controlled airflow. It seems there would just have to be a problem with the stove for this to happen.

Regarding the general problem of that room being colder than others, in the past, you have not really described the layout of your house or chimney. If the chimney is exterior to the house, and that room is poorly insulated or leaky, it makes sense that the chimney would be pulling cold air into that room and helping cool it, regardless of any type of stove setup or its performance.