New (Bad) Firmware in Mt Vernon AE

[Madcodger]

Our new Quadrafire dealer (switched dealers for service this year) installed "updated" firmware from Quad in our stove when he cleaned it and prepped it for the season a couple of months back. He mentioned that it was designed to run the ignitor for less time in each startup cycle, thereby reducing the need to replace ignitors as often (our first lasted about three years). After running the stove for about 10 days now, I can tell you that this new firmware is just awful, and we have the dealer coming back later this week to put our old (last winter's) firmware back in.

We've found that, running the same pellets as last year (even the same batch / lot, as they are left over from the previous season) the following problems occur:

• Stove fails to ignite about every other morning, after being off all night (we get a low firepot temp warning, and it then works fine after pressing "Retry", an hour or more after the stove should have come on.
• The stove is designed to start backing off on flame intensity as the room approaches its target temperature, and this has worked well in the past. Now, it rarely even makes it to the target temp, with outside temps only in the '40s and '50s. It starts to back off about 2 - 3 degrees below target, and just runs at a very low flame intensity.
• The stove often (though not always) burns with a lazy, soot and ash producing flame, almost as if it were air starved. This happens as it backs down when it approaches the target temp. And this after a very thorough cleaning less than 10 bags ago (essentially torn down and cleaned as thoroughly as possible). Three days of burning produces as much ash as an entire week in the dead of winter last year!
• We're going through approximately twice the amount of pellets as this time last year, likely due to the very poor quality of the burn.

Needless to say, we can't wait for this firmware to be switched out as this was the only change between last year and this year. Everything checked out via the computer diagnostics after the update, but in actual practice we have had this poor performance since. I post this note to see if anyone else has had similar problems after a recent Quad firmware update, and also to warn others. We put in a new Tstat near the beginning of last season and it was fine, so we suspect this is just some engineer's theories failing in actual practice.

 

[john193]

Can you post the current version no you are on, as well as your previous one? I'm curious as to how it compares to mine.

 

[adam9823]

Our new Quadrafire dealer (switched dealers for service this year) installed "updated" firmware from Quad in our stove when he cleaned it and prepped it for the season a couple of months back. He mentioned that it was designed to run the ignitor for less time in each startup cycle, thereby reducing the need to replace ignitors as often (our first lasted about three years). After running the stove for about 10 days now, I can tell you that this new firmware is just awful, and we have the dealer coming back later this week to put our old (last winter's) firmware back in.

We've found that, running the same pellets as last year (even the same batch / lot, as they are left over from the previous season) the following problems occur:

• Stove fails to ignite about every other morning, after being off all night (we get a low firepot temp warning, and it then works fine after pressing "Retry", an hour or more after the stove should have come on.
• The stove is designed to start backing off on flame intensity as the room approaches its target temperature, and this has worked well in the past. Now, it rarely even makes it to the target temp, with outside temps only in the '40s and '50s. It starts to back off about 2 - 3 degrees below target, and just runs at a very low flame intensity.
• The stove often (though not always) burns with a lazy, soot and ash producing flame, almost as if it were air starved. This happens as it backs down when it approaches the target temp. And this after a very thorough cleaning less than 10 bags ago (essentially torn down and cleaned as thoroughly as possible). Three days of burning produces as much ash as an entire week in the dead of winter last year!
• We're going through approximately twice the amount of pellets as this time last year, likely due to the very poor quality of the burn.

Needless to say, we can't wait for this firmware to be switched out as this was the only change between last year and this year. Everything checked out via the computer diagnostics after the update, but in actual practice we have had this poor performance since. I post this note to see if anyone else has had similar problems after a recent Quad firmware update, and also to warn others. We put in a new Tstat near the beginning of last season and it was fine, so we suspect this is just some engineer's theories failing in actual practice.

If you want to get rid of the new download simply go to user settings go to elevation and go from normal to high and except it. Once you except it this will clear all new downloads and revert back to factory settings. Then repeat the process and select normal. That will get you back to what you're stove was before the new download. Good Luck

 

[tsmith]

If you want to get rid of the new download simply go to user settings go to elevation and go from normal to high and except it. Once you except it this will clear all new downloads and revert back to factory settings. Then repeat the process and select normal. That will get you back to what you're stove was before the new download. Good Luck

I don't even let the dealer upgrade my settings because I use high elevation for extra air flow depending on what pellets I burn and ya it does revert back to original program when high elevation is selected.

 

[Vinelife]

Stoves with firmware ... neat ..

 

[Madcodger]

Sorry for no reply - Was busy all week and just back to board.

Firmware we upgraded to was v3, per the dealer today during visit. No idea of previous, though. Also, he says he upgraded only the softwood settings (via the fuel table) and that all their other AE users have had no problems as all burn hardwood. We tried a softwood pellet all last year and I still had / have a few bags left over. So all use on this upgrade has been with softwood. Dealer confirmed that the stove appears air starved today, and confirmed that there is no obstruction or blockage that should cause it. However, he claims he cannot revert settings back but is also contacting Quad to see what they know.

I agreed to try the following: Switch stove to utility pellet setting and observe flame for a portion of a bag. Also try higher elevation setting for portion of a bag. Report back with results. Only 5 bags of softwood left and I have another stove in office (ancient Whitfield Quest insert) that will take those just fine. Will switch to this year's supply of Hamer's for the AE after these tests are complete, then switch to hardwood setting at normal elevation, and report back. Dealer suspects all will be fine then. We shall see...

I'm normally not afraid of technology (the stove is in an automated house where I have full remote control of lighting, security, other HVAC, etc.. The house can even "talk" to you in a limited way). But I am not a fan of the way Quad implemented the technology in the AE. The "brains" appear to be split between the stat and the stove, and the communication protocol between the two is proprietary to Quad so I can't control even basic settings of the stove via anything else, such as a different stat. If they had made the stat JUST a thermostat and put the other settings in the stove (such as the fuel table and air mix settings) it would have been a much cleaner design. The stove is good when it works but there is much they could have done to make it better, and their fixes seem to make things worse far too often. Once we get it back to normal, I won't allow any more "upgrades", that's for sure! Will keep you posted...

 

[Caribfan]

I don't even let the dealer upgrade my settings because I use high elevation for extra air flow depending on what pellets I burn and ya it does revert back to original program when high elevation is selected.

What criteria do you use for more air? Poor pellet then higher elevation? I am asking because my first few bags or MWP burned VERY dirty - tons of ash. I'm hoping they burn a little cleaner when the stove is running a little more consistently because I have a 70 more bags to go. They burned fine for me last year but this years batch doesn't seem to be the same.

 

[tsmith]

What criteria do you use for more air? Poor pellet then higher elevation? I am asking because my first few bags or MWP burned VERY dirty - tons of ash. I'm hoping they burn a little cleaner when the stove is running a little more consistently because I have a 70 more bags to go. They burned fine for me last year but this years batch doesn't seem to be the same.

Actually, just the opposite. When I burn a good quality hardwood pellet, I use high elevation for more air. The reason being that pellets like Turman, Hamer, Bearfoot etc. are real dense pellet, they are usually small in size as well. Because of the density of them they require more air to burn properly. High elevation provides this. If a pellet is ashy there really is nothing you can do, if they are causing problems with your auto clean floor, you could set it to Utility pellet so it cleans itself more often. Sometimes with the good pellets, I actually use high elevation for more air as well as set it on corn setting to feed less fuel to the pot, the only down side to this is that the igniter is on much longer on start up.

 

[Phil Do's fire.]

Quadra fire quality just not the same since Alladin sold out to HHT. Sad very Sad

 

[Caribfan]

Good info, thanks. The pellets aren't causing any problems with the autoclean but I was just shocked at how much ash I cleaned out after the first few bags - they weren't like this last year. But at an average price of 3.71/bag I will suffer through the extra cleaning

 

[tsmith]

Good info, thanks. The pellets aren't causing any problems with the autoclean but I was just shocked at how much ash I cleaned out after the first few bags - they weren't like this last year. But at an average price of 3.71/bag I will suffer through the extra cleaning

I will tell ya one thing that I have learned with the Mt. Vernon, they seem to like dirty pellets better. By this I mean that I have found with ashy pellets I have never had any problems with the auto clean floor working, but sometimes with the better grade hardwoods it would form a hard clinker on the pot floor and jam the floor when cleaning. This would cause a failure to clean and eventually during the night the stove would shut down. Just gotta play with it until you find out what works best for ya. If you really need a hot fire switch to sunflower setting. This has the highest feed rate, very hot fire but can go through pellets quicker too.

 

[Madcodger]

So, an update... Running on the utility pellets setting (while still burning a good quality softwood pellet) did improve things a bit, apparently because it gives them more air. Basically satisfactory, but it didn't back down quite as smoothly when it approached the set temperature. I then switched the setting to softwood, and set the elevation to "high" (over 4000 feet). We're at an elevation of about 560 feet, so this gave it a lot of added air. Louder, but it did burn very brightly. This did, btw, erase the newer settings as noted by others earlier (no loss there, as the new firmware was the problem).

With the new firmware settings wiped out, I put the stove back onto the normal elevation setting and sure enough, it seemed to operate properly again. What we've learned:

Don't let the dealer update your firmware on a Mt Vernon AE unless you are having problems
Changing elevation setting wipes out updated firmware settings
Quad builds a great stove but I personally think they're lousy at thermostats

Now my major complaint is that when I want to temporarily turn the stove set temperature (the temp I want to maintain) back up after it has set itself back at night (due to its Program) I still need to put it on "hold" instead of just bumping up the setting a bit and having it resume normal programming when the next Program time occurs, as would be possible with a normal thermostat. This bug has always been a problem with this particular thermostat (I'm on my third) and I guess I can live with that. Only problem is that if I get sleepy and go to bed without changing it back to running its Program the stove will just stay at that temp setting indefinitely.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

Now my major complaint is that when I want to temporarily turn the stove set temperature (the temp I want to maintain) back up after it has set itself back at night (due to its Program) I still need to put it on "hold" instead of just bumping up the setting a bit and having it resume normal programming when the next Program time occurs, as would be possible with a normal thermostat. This bug has always been a problem with this particular thermostat (I'm on my third) and I guess I can live with that. Only problem is that if I get sleepy and go to bed without changing it back to running its Program the stove will just stay at that temp setting indefinitely.

Check me on this, but I believe that if you bump up the temperature and then hit "Done" it will maintain the new temperature only until the next programmed temperature change.

 

[Madcodger]

Check me on this, but I believe that if you bump up the temperature and then hit "Done" it will maintain the new temperature only until the next programmed temperature change.

So here's the problem on this stat... Have it set to go from 73 down to 67 at 9:30 pm (Keep it a little warm to spread to adjacent rooms). If I want to stay up and finish watching something on TV or read, I do exactly as you describe, bumping up the set temp and then pressing Done. But about 30 seconds later it goes back to the Program setting (e.g., 67). I try again, thinking I must have missed the Done button. Same problem... Has been like this on this stat since I installed it, but it's the THIRD on this stove and this is the only nuisance. And it only seems to do it on the 4th cycle of the program.

 

[joescho]

If you want to get rid of the new download simply go to user settings go to elevation and go from normal to high and except it. Once you except it this will clear all new downloads and revert back to factory settings. Then repeat the process and select normal. That will get you back to what you're stove was before the new download. Good Luck

That's a great idea... I forgot about that one...

 

[joescho]

Now my major complaint is that when I want to temporarily turn the stove set temperature (the temp I want to maintain) back up after it has set itself back at night (due to its Program) I still need to put it on "hold" instead of just bumping up the setting a bit and having it resume normal programming when the next Program time occurs, as would be possible with a normal thermostat. This bug has always been a problem with this particular thermostat (I'm on my third) and I guess I can live with that. Only problem is that if I get sleepy and go to bed without changing it back to running its Program the stove will just stay at that temp setting indefinitely.

One other feature I wish it had is a thermostat override where the stove will keep going regardless of what temperature the thermostat says. The only way to achieve something like this now is to set the thermostat at like 90 or something.

 

[Harvey Schneider]

So here's the problem on this stat... Have it set to go from 73 down to 67 at 9:30 pm (Keep it a little warm to spread to adjacent rooms). If I want to stay up and finish watching something on TV or read, I do exactly as you describe, bumping up the set temp and then pressing Done. But about 30 seconds later it goes back to the Program setting (e.g., 67). I try again, thinking I must have missed the Done button. Same problem... Has been like this on this stat since I installed it, but it's the THIRD on this stove and this is the only nuisance. And it only seems to do it on the 4th cycle of the program.

I went and checked the behavior of my thermostat. I only did it for the current setting this morning. It acted as I expected, maintaining the new setting. In the menu I checked the"Set comfort level" item and it said that it would hold that temperature until 5:00 PM which is the next programmed change.
You might try setting it through the "Set comfort level" menu and see if that works for you. The menus on this thermostat/controller are confusing at best and the manual doesn't do a very good job of explaining the terminology.
I will verify it again tonight on the last temperature change of the day (if I can remember to).