New Enviro M55 Install, planning stages

[steveg_nh]

Hi All,

Awesome forum. I love the power of the internet. I've read a bunch of threads here, but still wants to share my specific situation and see if there were any pointers or advice offered.

I have a fairly shallow firebox that is just big enough to fit the Enviro M55 in it. My house is almost 4000 sq ft, but that includes sections that would be hard for the pellet stove insert to heat. So around 2500 sq ft or so is open and easily heated by the pellet stove. Can't wait to not see the oil truck every 3 weeks in the winter.

Anyway, I'm having my mason rework the face of my fireplace (it is tile now) with brick or stone, which will increase the depth from the apron to the back of the back, giving me some breathing room for the M55 install.

We plan on venting it out through the top of my chimney, which is about 30' from the box.

My house is also pretty air tight, and I can foresee problems with combustion, so I'm seriously thinking I should install an OAK as well. I read about some people just drawing for the OAK right from inside the chimney itself. How does that work? I don't want to cut holes in the chimney. Another option is I could go DOWN though the floor of the fire box and vent through an outside wall in the basement, but that is a lot of concrete to drill through. Then I could go up to the top of the chimney as well, but I know you shouldn't have the vent and OAK too close to each other..

I can post some pictures of the setup too if that would help.

Thanks for any input, suggestions or advice.

 

[apandori]

I think most, if not everybody, would tell you that the OAK is a great idea and you should do it. With that being said, I'm guessing the inside the chimney route would be your best bet. I have no knowledge of how to do that though or what it entails. I don't think the intake being near the exhaust is as bad as you think it is though. Somebody with better knowledge will come along and let you know though.

 

[apandori]

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/need-oak-line-advice.129775/

This thread may help you about the chimney OAK setup.

 

[steveg_nh]

Thanks. I'll read it over.

 

[steveg_nh]

Thanks. Good info. I would lean towards doing it, but for whatever reason, two installers have told me not to do it. They said it actually has an adverse impact. I know I can always add it later, so I guess I'll pass to start with. Worst case, I pull it out, and add the outside air kit pulling air from the chimney.

Now I'm on to the next question...R value of the hearth, and modifications to the firebox.

Let's start with R value and other installation requirements. In reading the manual, I meet all combustible set back requirements. No issues. Upon researching this topic, I learned that some stoves require the hearth to have a certain R value rating. I don't see anything like this, as a requirement with the Enviro M55 insert. Anyone know anything about that?

Now to firebox. This insert is going into a brick masonry fireplace. My current firebox is just big enough to fit the M55. I mean JUST big enough. No cushion at all. But it would fit. Set that knowledge aside for a moment. Our current face of the fireplace is marble tile, 12" out from the firebox opening, and the hearth is 24" out of white marble tile. We hate it. Always have. So we want to make some changes. And here they are, numbered for reference as the discussion continues...

1. We are having someone change the face material (the black marble surround you see now) by pulling off the tile, and replacing it with brick or stone. This will increase the depth of the opening by 3", give or take, the depth of a standard brick.

2. The area in front of where the stove will sit, the hearth - the white tile you see now - will go from flush tile, to 3 rows/layers of brick, so basically we are also RAISING the hearth about 8".

3. Inside the firebox, where the actual fire brick is, we need to raise that too, t match the height increase of the hearth. I'm not sure what I should, or can, do there. I'm balancing two things. First, trying to maintain the fireplace's wood burning ability for possible future use if a new owner wanted to (thinking upon selling my home I could say the fireplace can still be used for wood burning). Second, trying to achieve what I need to do to better fit my insert and get the aesthetics we want. Maybe these two needs are mutually exclusive? Anyway, not sure how to properly raise the firebox floor, and what it does to the box's ability to burn wood. If it's modified and permanently not able to burn wood, so be it. I just want to know.

My plan was to use regular brick for the first two additional layers in the firebox, and then top it with the fire brick, to maintain the actual requirement of a wood burning fireplace.Or is that wrong? Or does it all have to be firebrick? I was surprised the sides of my firebox are regular brick, or at least appear to be. Again, if since I'm changing the dimension of the box, I'm killing the ability to burn wood ever again in the firebox, does it even matter? Could I just use 4 rows of red brick? My understanding of a pellet stove is the real "hot" part is in the room, from the apron forward, not the back of it which is actually in the firebox.

Anyway, here's a picture of the fireplace now...That white tile will be replaced with the 3 rows/layers of brick/stone, and inside the box, the floor will be raised up 3 rows as well.

These changes will increase the depth of the firebox, allowing the insert to have some room to fit easier, it will also shorten the height opening of the overall fireplace to accommodate the pellet stove apron (It's too large right now) and to my wife and I, improve the aesthetics.

I would greatly appreciate any thoughts on this. Thank you.

 

[steveg_nh]

Any advice guys? I probably should just ask the Fire Chief in town, as he's responsible for the inspection when complete. He certainly might not on if I'm rendering the fireplace unusable for future wood burning.

 

[steveg_nh]

So the masonry refab of the fireplace is done. Basically, according to the mason, it's really just a solid brick "veneer" as the original fireplace is behind it but the new brick isn't an integral part of the old work. It's tied in with metal straps/clips and looks great.

They did notice for whatever reason, the old firebox face wasn't level, so they made sure the new work they did is...this created a small gap where, when I look up towards the top right from inside the firebox, I can actually see a bit of light. This means that the new brick isn't "sealed" against the old. I asked about it as I was worried at first about anything leaking from the pellet stove within the firebox since the new brick isn't sealed tightly against the old. They explained that regardless of that, a pellet insert isn't sealed tightly within the firebox anyway. He explained that you have just the apron covering the firebox hole, but that the apron is not sealing it like you would think of something being air tight. He said the only output of the stove is through the exhaust pipe of the stove, so there won't be anything to leak out through this gap. He said if there were, you would see it leak out around the apron and where the stove slides in trhough the apron opening. I believe he is 100% correct, but this confirms to me at least that because of the refab this fireplace shouldn't be considered to be a working wood burning FP any more though. If you burned wood, I would think that gap would be an issue. Smoke would roll up and between the old fireplace face and the new brick, and escape through these crevices where you see the top layer of brick meet the white wood trim piece.

But for purposes of the pellet insert, any issues with what I have? I sure hope not. I hope this makes sense. Here's the finished refab, now just waiting for the stove install.

 

[JDenyer236]

Wow that looks really nice. Be sure to show pics when the stove is in.

 

[steveg_nh]

Thanks. Just a few more days. Electrical is all done. Everything got hooked up tonight. You can just make out the armored cable in the right back corner of the firebox.

 

[steveg_nh]

All done, the guys did a fantastic job. Super careful, quality install. Here it is, just getting fired up. The flame wasn't that big yet. But as I broke it in to get the paint cured, man this thing throws heat!

 

[DIrtyJersey]

Look's great!

 

[Peterfield]

Look's great!

What a coincidence, I am having a 4" slab of granite put in my hearth almost exactly as you did for a Nov 1 install. Looks great and now I know what mine will look like.

 

[Skier76]

Sharp looking install! I have a GCI60 on the way; similar stove. Your stove and hearth look awesome.

 

[steveg_nh]

Thanks all. We are very happy with how it all came out. We spent a lot of time thinking about the hearth design, height, top slab etc. It all worked out.

 

[suchanewbie]

Looks neat - very clean lines.
Sorry to sound all paranoid on you but those curtains too close for comfort no? Should in theory be okay but just a check on the safety side.
Also watch out for those corners of the hearth in case they are sharp. Especially if there are kids around.

 

[JDenyer236]

Super. Looks great

 

[RickNH]

Looks great! do you have your clean-out open or closed for air to enter from the basement?

 

[Tenpounder]

Excellent upgrade. You'll love the M55. What was the outcome of the OAK?

 

[steveg_nh]

Sorry to sound all paranoid on you but those curtains too close for comfort no? Also watch out for those corners of the hearth in case they are sharp. Especially if there are kids around.

No worries. Paranoia around fire is good! The curtains are about 42" away from the sides of the stove. We used to burn wood in there (open fire) and always watched carefully. Never had an issue with the distance, but we were vigilant. Now, with a closed stove, I don't see how it would be an issue, unless I opened the firebox door and an ember floated...Seems ok to me, and others, including fire chief didn't think it was any concern when first planning it. Am I letting my guard down too much?

And no small kids here anymore (my oldest just turned 13 today, and my younger two are 10 and 12, so they aren't rough housing anymore. Plus, the way the hearth/fireplace is set in the room, it's kind of in the back, off the beaten path. In our old house, we had a similar setup, but it was more in the area of traffic flow, so when the kids were young we put the soft cushions around it along with a nice black fence to keep the kids away from the hot. I'm glad those days are behind me!

Looks great! do you have your clean-out open or closed for air to enter from the basement?

What was the outcome of the OAK?

The clean out is still installed with the flapper door in (the frame of the M55 fit right over it), but my door never sat closed and flush. So it's open about 1/4" maybe. For that reason, for now at least, I didn't push to have the OAK installed. The installers were very knowledgeable and helpful, and I didn't think they were giving me bad info. They felt my setup, in the masonry fireplace with a cleanout (which the opening to clean is 10' below the cleanout) provided a lot of air to feed the stove.

Now all that being said - I have a few questions as I run the stove.

1. The first is the Trim Feed setting. Should I need to tweak this at all? How do I know if I need to?
2. Flame size on the lowest setting. The flame is barely visible above the burn pot frame when on low. Normal, or is the fire too small and I should look to adjust settings?

 

[Aquion]

Your flame size on the lowest setting is normal.

I use the feed trim adjustment as a minor heating adjustment. Sometime heat lvl 2, trim feed 3 is too much but heat lvl 1, trim feed 3 is not enough. Heat lvl 2, trim feed 1 will be perfect.

 

[johnnh]

No worries. Paranoia around fire is good! The curtains are about 42" away from the sides of the stove. We used to burn wood in there (open fire) and always watched carefully. Never had an issue with the distance, but we were vigilant. Now, with a closed stove, I don't see how it would be an issue, unless I opened the firebox door and an ember floated...Seems ok to me, and others, including fire chief didn't think it was any concern when first planning it. Am I letting my guard down too much?

And no small kids here anymore (my oldest just turned 13 today, and my younger two are 10 and 12, so they aren't rough housing anymore. Plus, the way the hearth/fireplace is set in the room, it's kind of in the back, off the beaten path. In our old house, we had a similar setup, but it was more in the area of traffic flow, so when the kids were young we put the soft cushions around it along with a nice black fence to keep the kids away from the hot. I'm glad those days are behind me!




The clean out is still installed with the flapper door in (the frame of the M55 fit right over it), but my door never sat closed and flush. So it's open about 1/4" maybe. For that reason, for now at least, I didn't push to have the OAK installed. The installers were very knowledgeable and helpful, and I didn't think they were giving me bad info. They felt my setup, in the masonry fireplace with a cleanout (which the opening to clean is 10' below the cleanout) provided a lot of air to feed the stove.

Now all that being said - I have a few questions as I run the stove.

1. The first is the Trim Feed setting. Should I need to tweak this at all? How do I know if I need to?
2. Flame size on the lowest setting. The flame is barely visible above the burn pot frame when on low. Normal, or is the fire too small and I should look to adjust settings?

Your low setting is fine. Mine is the same.

I don't mess around with the trims. I leave them midway at 3 apiece. I have no interest in fussing. The stove is just fine.

 

[steveg_nh]

So what you're doing is adjusting flame size (more of less pellets fed) with the same speed on the blower...right?

When I look at the setting, for example, on stove setting 1, the middle of the 5 LEDs is not lit for trim feed. Does that mean it's a two? The top two are lit though.

Thanks.