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New guy here, questions about install of older insert

Post in 'Classic Wood Stove Forums (prior to approx. 1993)' started by jrems, Oct 24, 2013.

  1. jrems

    jrems New Member

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    Danbury CT
    Hi, I have been reading the forums for a couple weeks and I'm glad this place exists with all the great info. please bear with me I have a lot of questions and will probably ramble on. I just purchased my first house and I wanted to install an insert to help with the heat bill down. I have used an old vigilant stove at the last place I worked that was in a garage. My friend is an arborist and I have access to as much seasoned firewood as I need for free. My house has a fireplace and I got an old Elmira stove works 1500 for free
    http://elmirast.ccjclearline.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/1500-Series.pdf
    It will fit perfect, but I want to install it correctly and safely. I have worked as a mechanic and fabricator so I'm pretty comfortable with installing whatever I may need. I have already talked with my town and filed for a permit. The inspector said I need to install 14 more inches of stone or tile on my floor for code. He seems to be ok with a 5ft section of pipe to "direct connect" to the first tile of the flue. The stove has a 8" flue and my chimney has a inside dimention of 11"x7" so it's pretty close in diameter.But I think I want to just install a whole liner. The problem is I would have to severly oval a 8" flex pipe to fit. My local dealer has a 7.5" liner that was custom ordered years ago and never picked up. I could get it for $250. Do you think undersizing it .5" and then making it oval would pose a problem? I would not have room for a wrap insulation, so I would probably do the pearlite as I have seen done here. My chimney is only 12" from stove to the top of the chimney. Will this short distance pose a problem with draft or an Slightly undersized liner? Sorry again to ramble. Thanks in advance - Jeremy

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  2. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Welcome. I'll take that as 12' and not 12" right? :) 12 ft should be ok for this older stove. Modern stoves prefer about 4 more feet. Undersizing by .5" shouldn't hurt much, but how are you going to connect it to the stove and what fittings would finish off the top cap?
  3. jrems

    jrems New Member

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    Yes it is about 12-13' from the stove to the top of the chimney. I was going to use the standard stainless top cap, it's flat with a hole for the flex pipe. Since it's large I was going to trim it use a brake to bend a lip on the sides, weld the corners and install wing nut bolts to tighten against the Terra cotta flue. Is this ok? It will have a standard cover sliped on the liner to keep rain out. To connect to the stove I need a 45 degree adapter, I saw a bunch of places online that make any size adapter you could want, so I was hoping to get a 8" to 7.5" 45 degree elbow made. Any other recommendations?
  4. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Sounds like you are pretty resourceful. Not sure about getting that stainless transition elbow made. That may take an 8" 45 elbow and a separate 8" to 7.5" reducer. For all the hassles you need to go through to make this odd liner work maybe offer $200 for taking it off the dealer's hands?
  5. jrems

    jrems New Member

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    I was only considering the 7.5" because I'm sure I could get it cheaper and I would have a much easier time ovaling it to fit down the chimney. 7.5" adapters seem to be impossible to find. I would have a much easier time fitting a 7" liner in the chimney and adapters from 8" to 7" are readily available. Do you think that undersizing that much would affect the stove much? I know it's not recommended, but do you think it would have adverse effects? I though the draft is reduced when making the pipe oval instead of round. The 7.5 inch would have to be squished at least 1.5" the 7" liner would not have to be squished much. Would keeping it more round provide a better draft than an oval liner slightly larger?
  6. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    I don't think the old Elmira is going to care that much, but I don't think you'll find 7" cheaper. That is a rarer size.

    OK, just checked and found the ChimneyLinerDepot sells a 7.5" liner kit. If you can avoid the elbow and just angle the flex at the aproximate angle to match the flue outlet you should be set.If you need parts they should be able to help. Give them a call.
    http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/store/productviewinkt.php?viewItem=3968
  7. jrems

    jrems New Member

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    That does look like a good price and it has the top cap and cover as well. They also have the 7" liner for the same price. I could go with either. I think the liner should be flexible enough that I wouldn't need the elbow. Do you think the 7.5 would fit without a gap going into the stove?
  8. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Measure the ID of the stove collar to tell. I've never had my hands on an Elmira. If it is only an 1/8" gap then stove and furnace cement can be packed in there and allowed to setup.
  9. jrems

    jrems New Member

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    I measured the stove. It's 8" ID dead on. I could probably pound the thin metal collar on the bottom of the flex pipe that inserts into the opening enough to stretch the metal pretty close( for the 7.5" liner) Or Just use the 7" with the readily available adapter. Choices choices. I did sone reading on here and some of these older stoves can run away with a full 8" liner since they were normally just slammers or had a few feet of pipe and didn't draft as well. If you think I can get away with a 7" it would be the easiest to install and leave enough room for insulation.
  10. jrems

    jrems New Member

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    I actually called emira today. They stopped making wood inserts over 15 years ago but they had an old timer still there that could answer questions. He said the 7" liner would be fine and should not have issues with the stove drafting properly. I'm going to order a 7" liner kit. I'll post up some install pics after everything comes in. Thanks a lot. I have been exploring the forums and there is quite a lot of knowledge around here.
  11. valley ranch

    valley ranch Feeling the Heat

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    Ranches in Sierra Nevada mts,Calif & Nevada
    They make some good quality stoves.
  12. jrems

    jrems New Member

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    It is a pretty nice looking stove. It has a vey large window with a nice wood Cabin etching in the glass( it was an optional feature)The firebox has to be close to 4 sq ft, it's about 27" deep and 24" wide at the front and about 18" wide at the back and about 14" tall. I'm sure it's not nearly efficient as a new stove. I'll probably use it for a season or two before I step up to a new modern stove.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2013
  13. valley ranch

    valley ranch Feeling the Heat

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    Ranches in Sierra Nevada mts,Calif & Nevada
    Wouldn't mine seeing a picture. If you have the time.

    Richard

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