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New to the scene- need help setting up a Seton 130!

Post in 'The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces' started by Akgasser, Oct 20, 2010.

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  1. roaring fire

    roaring fire New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2008
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    newfoundland
    EP listen to iseedeadbtus .
    I have operated Adobe( similar design ) for 3 years.
    His advice was especially helpful in maintaining my sanity early on.
    By the way you have a great boiler, listen to isee & you will
    reap rewards in no time.
    Good luck
    Dan

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  2. ISeeDeadBTUs

    ISeeDeadBTUs Guest

    LOL, moving his boiler now is prolly out of the question. Let's help the OP where he can use our thoughts . . .

    So . . . Have you fired up again and tested where the damper closes and what the temp does after the daamper closes?

    Jimbo

    PS. Inside vs Outside is pretty much personal preference. Pros/cons both ways. :)
  3. Akgasser

    Akgasser Member

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    Yup, that boiler is staying put :) we had to push things back till this evening, so I haven't yet fires the boiler again. Going to get it set up and regasket the loading door, damper door and around the skin where there was smoke seepage. I'll fire it tonight hopefully and record observations later this evening. Didn't get much done this weekend because I got dragged out Caribou hunting ;)
  4. ISeeDeadBTUs

    ISeeDeadBTUs Guest

    Possibly while yer out chasin Bambi you could get the Mrs. on here and we could get this thing fixed up ;-)
  5. Akgasser

    Akgasser Member

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    fun

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  6. sixroses

    sixroses Member

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    If you are anywhere near me you did'nt get done before the snow flew...I have a GW 100 and have been able to run 2 years with now gas for heat or hot water. Took some work and experimenting but has paid off.
    Steve
  7. Akgasser

    Akgasser Member

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    2 years on wood huh? Am I on tHe right track here? We were hanging unit heaters today and I'm wiring the circ pump to run continuously and am starting to seal the boiler. One of the heaters was damaged so the plumbing portion all will be done tomorrow. Does your boiler work well in the summer too?
  8. JMann

    JMann Member

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    Loc:
    Southern PA
    Coming late to the party but wanted to echo what other users are stating...
    I have a closed system. The pump that I got from Bethel Eng is only used to circulate the loop between my 30 plate hx and the existing oil furnace (in house). I bought a larger pump to circulate from the Seton (100' away in garage) to the other side of the hx.

    I've had overheating but only when the pump was not working - having it run 24/7 is the best setup. Use the aquastats for dump zone and to close the damper / intake tubes.

    I took the skins off of my Seton and used the high temp silicone around the edges, then applied wax paper to the sticky side so that it would be air tight and taking them off (for cleaning) would be easy. I also did this for the intake damper (connected to aquastat) and also to the loading door. This worked great (last season).

    I used well seasoned wood last season - this made a big difference in efficiency.

    Looking forward to firing it up next week - we're still in the 60's and low 70's.
  9. Trzebs13

    Trzebs13 Member

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    EP, I wondering why you are adding the unit heaters? If you want to heat another area I understand. But just for a dump zone, I may be missing something. My system heats 2 things. The infloor in the basement and the air coil above my forced air furnace. My dump zone is my basement floor. The Dump aqua-stat turns on the pump for the floor no matter if the thermostat is calling for heat or not, to dissipate the excess heat. I guess what I'm saying is that you don't have to have a separate unit of any kind to have a dump zone. It just has to get rid of that heat with something. Hope this make some sense.
  10. Akgasser

    Akgasser Member

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    Would dumping the heat in the basement work then? Those unit heaters are almost $700 each! I would rather go that route if we can achieve the same result
  11. Trzebs13

    Trzebs13 Member

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    Yes you just need to wire it that way. Like Jimbo had mentioned it really shouldn't hit them allot.
  12. Akgasser

    Akgasser Member

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    so we wired the first aquastat to close the damper at 190. The second aquastat will kick the basement pump on at 205. Is 205 the right setting? we also wired the circ pump that came with the Seton to run constantly. The Seton should be full of water if it's an open system correct?
  13. sixroses

    sixroses Member

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    What is the heat output in the basement? radiant, forced air, baseboard? I have used my baseboard as a very effective heat dump.Tried a modine style heater in basement but that did'nt lower temps fast enough. I have 700+gallons of storage so over heat hasn't been a problem for awhile now.
    Steve
  14. Akgasser

    Akgasser Member

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    Basement is radiant heat. About 1200 sf
  15. Trzebs13

    Trzebs13 Member

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    This sounds like your on the right path now. As far as the temps, hopfully some others chime in but that is a little hotter than I run. Not saying what i'm doing is right. But I have my damper close at 180 and the dump kicks on at 190. You'll probably have to play with it to tweek it in for your set up.

    And I don't quite understand how your system is a open system. I see in your first pic that you have a pressure tank. By you asking this i'm wondering if you still have some air in the system. I see the air bleed on the top of the stove but you may need another at your highest point. But needless to say yes the boiler must have water in the HX and circulating at all times. This is a must. And I would think open or closed you can not have any air that is circulating around.


    And 1200 sq ft of infloor would make a great dump. I have around 1800 and that will suck heat till the cow's come home.
  16. Akgasser

    Akgasser Member

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    I used 3m firebarrier red silicone to seal the skins and make gaskets for the damper door and loading door. This stuff takes forever to cure! It's says it only cures at 1/8" per day. It's been about a day and it's not cured yet so I haven't been able to fire the stove.

    With the current configuration as I understand it. The seton dumps hot water into the 50gal Bock, goes through a mixing valve that feeds the floors and then into the 80gal boilermate in the basement. The pressure tank comes off the boilermate and our domestic hot water comes from that.
  17. Akgasser

    Akgasser Member

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    So I did a good bit of sealing around the skins, loading door and damper door. Got a nice fire going...and the stove got to 200 degrees and is dumping water again.

    Everything worked the way it should have though.

    Damper door closed at 180, as set on the first aquastat.
    Pump for basement zone kicked on at 195 as set on second aquastat.

    Boiler still crept up to 200 degrees and blew off the overheat valve. It would drop to 190 once that happened then creep up to 200 and do it again.

    Maybe my settings are wrong?

    Still have air leaks somewhere?

    I'm getting pretty tired of this thing. The Seton should be tested for air leaks before it leaves the factory so you don't have to disassemble the thing and caulk it >:-(

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  18. Pat53

    Pat53 Minister of Fire

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    It seems to me that even if you had small air leaks, as long as the pump(s) were moving water thru the HX and able to disapate that heat somewhere, you shouldn't be getting overheat conditions. You might want to try and check what your return temps are. If your return temps are 170-180, or higher as the temp creeps up on the boiler, you are definitely not moving that water fast enough and getting the heat distributed into the house properly.

    How long are your burns before the damper shuts down?

    Pat
  19. sparke

    sparke Minister of Fire

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    To be honest I run for extended periods of time over 200. It helps to charge storage. Anyway, I did away with the T&P valve. Replaced it with a straight 30# pop off. Some will disagree with this but my system is plenty safe. My boiler can hit scary temps before it boils. The pop off will always pop before that happens. And as long as the water is moving you shouldn't even get close.
  20. tigermaple

    tigermaple Member

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    I agree the flow appears to be the problem. Is there any chance of air in the loop? Do the purge valves spit any air when opened? Plate hx can be tricky to purge. Your circulator on the seton may also be undersized. Hang in there, a lot of people with seton type units have these problems (or worse) and now are running smoothly and loving it. It's a learning slope for sure, but your in good hands on this board.
  21. sgrenier35

    sgrenier35 Member

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    I think you should go back to the modine idea but hook the supply and return to the supply and return from the seaton nit into your primary loop this will give you the most effective cooling of the wood boiler. I'm sure your slab can absorb many thousands of btus but it can't do it quickly. And with your primary/secondary set up it will not cool your boiler very quickly.
  22. Jesse-M

    Jesse-M Member

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    I would drop both aquastat settings 10* and run it awhile, you might be surprised at how the lower temp water will still work well for your application. You should also be able to stay away from the overheat situation. I have my aquastats set at 175* and 185*. At this point I think you have done everything you need to with sealing......look into your flow rate for the next possible cause...... You should also get your blow offs plumbed down to the floor.......Keep us posted
  23. roaring fire

    roaring fire New Member

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    :exclaim: EP sorry to hear you are still having boil over ptoblems. I don,t have dump zone
    or storage on my Adobe & I have never had my temp relief valve blow except in my initial
    startup.My problem was a basic plumping set mistake. My circulator was running but was useless
    in moving the water because I hadn,t pressurized the system . This is accomplished by tying in
    your domestic water supply with a back flow preventer & thus pressurizing your boiler circulation
    to about 20 lbs. A simple check of your PRESSURE gauge should rule this problem out.If pressure
    ok I would follow PAT53 ADVICE & crank aquastats back 10 degrees ps you have a new boiler
    & the hx is highly efficient at this point, you may find in about 6 months you can go back to factory settings.
    Good luck
    Dan
    Adobe 4th season
    heating 1200 sq ft barn / 3500 sq house
  24. Akgasser

    Akgasser Member

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    Happened to run into a mechanical engineer from FBX today who had installed several setons. Said the best way to do it is to simply loop through a unit heater as described and use the second aquastat to kick the fan on when needed. Also
    recommended some better gasket
    material since the 3m stuff was useless
  25. Willman

    Willman Minister of Fire

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    Make sure your expansion tank is set to proper pressure. Low pressure or waterlogged xtank will cause prvs to vent. Although your tank looks new I would check the pressure.Look for 12lbs or so depending on how high the water has to go. What is the the pressure reading prior to prv venting ? Make certain ALL air is purged from system. I would power purge. Your plumber prolly already done that that. Looks to be a real nice install. Just gotta work out a few issues. I would not be happy with multiple prv pops.

    Will
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