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Newb Question...

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by myrandr, Nov 14, 2012.

  1. myrandr

    myrandr New Member

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    I am looking at putting in an insert appliance - I have an existing open fireplace that is unused. I am looking at a Napoleon 1402, house is just under 2,000 sq feet. I have a friend in the construction business that can get good deals on Heat & Glo products though. So looking at their line all I see in flush fireplace inserts.

    My first question: Is their a difference between a wood stove insert and a fireplace insert?

    Second question: for those in the know, if there is a difference, what has a higher efficiency?

    I am sure this will spark many different questions, but those are my starting points - basic at best.

    Thank you!

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  2. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Welcome. There is no woodstove insert, just fireplace inserts. Some inserts can go into masonry or zero-clearance, prefab fireplaces. Some can only be installed in masonry fireplaces.What do you have in your home?

    The Napoleon 1402 is a popular model and a good heater by all reports.
  3. corey21

    corey21 Minister of Fire

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    Welcome.

    I suggest you start getting a head start on your wood supply for next few years oh fresh cut red oak needs at least 2 full years to be ready to burn.

    Also how high is your chimney pics would help of the fireplace and chimney.
  4. myrandr

    myrandr New Member

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    BeGreen - We have a brick masonry fireplace - currently we have a Lopi gas stove vented but it gives off so little heat it seems almost worthless. (see pictures)

    I really like the Napoleon insert - the small "cook top" is something I would like. I am balancing that with the fact I can get a Heat & Glo appliance for almost cost, but from what I can see they only have what you I think are calling a zero clearance appliance. I think what I need to push me more so in the direction of the Napoleon is knowing whether or not a zero clearance or insert with more of the stove sitting outside the hearth is more efficient / better "heater" - the bottom line for me is what is going to provide the best heating source for my house.

    corey21 - We have a good supply of seasoned wood - my father in-law has 250 acres of land and does a lot of fire wood on the side, so not only do we have a good source but a very cost effective source to say the least, that's one of the primary reasons I am not looking at a pellet appliance. I am very familiar working with pellet stoves as I worked in the industry for many years and still have some very good friends in that industry as well.

    See attached pictures, and your advise / help / guidance is very much appreciated!
    [​IMG][​IMG]
  5. mellow

    mellow Resident Stove Connoisseur

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    Woodstock Fireview, rear vented if you like that look you have currently. Might have to extend your hearth out a bit.
    rideau and etiger2007 like this.
  6. Grisu

    Grisu Minister of Fire

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    If you like the look of a stove sitting in front of your fireplace that is often the cheaper and more efficient option than an insert. In addition, inserts rarely provide enough surface to allow a cooktop and usually rely on a blower to move the heat. However, you will almost certainly need to extent your hearth for a stove. To get an idea what size stove you need: How is your insulation? What is the effective squarefootage you want to heat? Where do you live; How cold does it get in the winter? How well would the heat from the stove travel through the house? Do you like the look of the stove or would you prefer something more contemporary? Would you consider a catalytic stove for extra-long burn times or would about 8 hr be enough for you? Lots of things to think about. ;)
  7. myrandr

    myrandr New Member

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    Grisu: Great questions - I will answer best I can! First, they look is nice but not a look we need - with a higher heat unit we would prefer not to have out so far and in an effort to keep the cost down would prefer not to build out the hearth. The Napoleon has, I think, and 8" 'cook top', which is not as large as a regular wood stove, bit still enough to put a kettle on. House insulation is good, windows need to be replaced in the next couple of years, little drafty for my liking but are still "good". The square footage of the house 1,800 split between two floors - we would like to be able to keep the main floor (where appliance would be located) primarily heated with wood and supplement the oil upstairs with heat from the appliance as well (the main level connects to upper in the center of the house and is a very open stairwell primarily banister). We live in NH, near Concord - so it does get pretty cold up this way. I think the heat will travel very well in the primary living areas and to the upstairs, the far side of the house may have a cold spot but we would expect that. We like traditional wood stove / fireplace looks, which is why we have been so drawn to the wood stove insert. I think an 8 hour burn time would do us well.

    Thank you!
  8. corey21

    corey21 Minister of Fire

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    Sounds like you have a good start.

    Pellet stoves need electricity to run and are louder i would like at Woodstock's line of stoves if you like the look.

    Nice pics.
  9. Grisu

    Grisu Minister of Fire

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    If you want to heat essentially the whole house with the insert you may want to go a little bit larger. The Napoleon is not a bad choice but the firebox seems a little bit too small with 2.2 cu ft. Maybe look for something in the 2.5 to 3 cu ft. range. However, you will need to measure your fireplace to see is you can fit in a larger insert. Make also sure that the hearth extends far enough in the room. You will need at least 16 inches from the stove. Is your mantel made out of wood? You may have another problem with clearances there. Please check any stove you may consider for that. To put out a few names of stoves you could take a look at: Regency 3100, Pacific Energy Summit, Quadrafire 4100, Boston Kodiak 1700 to name a few. They all protrude in the room so you potentially have some area to cook on although I cannot say from experience whether you will be able to do that. Keep also in mind that you will need an insulated liner with that tall, exterior chimney. Overall, you may look at ~$4500 if you do not the installation by yourself.
  10. myrandr

    myrandr New Member

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    Thank you all for he information. One think I would like to know, does anyone know if there is a difference in heat distribution between a flush mount and a non-flush mount (one that sticks out from hearth 8 inches)?
  11. Pierre902

    Pierre902 Member

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    Western MA
    I recently installed and have been burning with my Napoleon 1402. I am very happy with it so far. I do like how it sticks out about 9 inches from the wall. This is enough stove top to cook on or add a kettle. We have had power outages over the past year here in MA and without blowers on it still sticks out enough to generate some radiant heat. It has two blower motors which really moves the air around. I own a 1600 square foot two floor gambrel and it seems to heat it well but I'll reserve further comment on that until colder weather arrives. Overall I am pleased with the 1402 so far and I recommend it. Good luck wih your selection process.
  12. Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle

    Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle Minister of Fire

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    Welcome to the forums !

    There is a major difference between a flush and an extended front insert. Extended inserts allow the heat to convect off of the front of the unit if there is no power, and distributes heat through the room & house.

    A huge plus in a power outage.
    myrandr likes this.
  13. myrandr

    myrandr New Member

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    Thank you all again for the information! Pierre902 - I appreciate the first hand feedback. Doing The Dixie Eyed Hustle - that was my logical thinking, but it's good to hear that reinforced. We have decided to go with the Napoleon 1402 - I will post pictures and let everyone know how it goes once it comes in!
  14. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    As far as I can tell, Heat & Glo doesn't sell any wood inserts, just gas. They do sell wood fireplaces, but that's not what you need. You already have one of them.

    The main issue here is going to be clearance to combustibles. That may determine whether to go flush or not with the insert. We need dimensions of the fireplace, H, W & D front and back. And we need to know the distance from the front opening to the side trim and to the bottom of the mantel trim.
  15. myrandr

    myrandr New Member

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    Update: Stove was installed today! See the picture below. First "mini" fire, doing the "seasoning" today and tomorrow, than we will see what this puppy will kick out for heat.

    [​IMG]
  16. WellSeasoned

    WellSeasoned Guest

    Stove looks beautiful! Do you meet your clearances with that woodwork and carpet as begreen asked? I dont know much about inserts, but make sure your good with clearances. That thing should heat up real nice! Congrats
  17. Pierre902

    Pierre902 Member

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    Looks great! Nice fit. I really have enjoyed mine so far, I hope you do the same. With this relatively warm weather we have been having I haven't really had to load it up very much. It throws some heat!!
  18. mfglickman

    mfglickman Minister of Fire

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    +1 to all - love the look and I'm worrying about your wood and carpet. Heat shields and hearth extenders are far cheaper than house fires.
  19. myrandr

    myrandr New Member

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    Just wanted to update on how the stove has been working thus far: For the first month we had relatively warm weather - what I have found is, temps outside of 30+ degree's stove keeps ,main living area in the mid 70's and the rest of the house stays around high 60's to low 70's, very warm compared to what we would normally keep the oil heat at (Very happy) - 20-30 degree's outside, heat flow throughout house starts to be restricted a bit, main living area low 70's, rest of the house starts to drop a couple degree's (still very happy). the past few days, temps in low teens to single digits - stove works a little harder but main living area high 60's, rest of the house mid to low 60's. To refresh, our house is 1800 square feet - open concept so we get good air flow. Overall they key for me has been how much the oil heat has kicked on - I have my thermostats set to 58 main level, 60 upstairs and until yesterday (low teens outside) our oil burner HAS NOT TURNED ON - it kicked in yesterday and today with the very low temps in the early morning hours.

    Last heating season we burned about 1 tank of oil every month and a half heating the house to 68 degree - the stove has been in just about that stretch and the oil needle has moved about 1/8th a tank - the oil burner is still used for heating water (the next project is to get the hot water off the oil burner). We have been burning about a log an hour, not sure how that compares to those using wood as their primary heating source - but given price of oil verses cord wood I estimate we are saving $200 a month on heating and we are getting a much warmer house than we would have ever kept with oil. So to sum things, we could not be happier with this stoves performance.

    To address the concerns expressed about the hearth, I blended in some slate to the front to extend it 6 more inches and the building inspected gave us thumbs up for code (see picture).

    If anyone has any other questions or feedback on the unit or anything else, I love sharing my experience thus far!

    [​IMG]

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