newbie needs advice about safety

[fossil]

...I usually agree with you Rick . . . but I have to say my outside exterior stainless steel chimney may perhaps lose some heat, but the Oslo is heating my 1,800 square foot house fine . . . there is very little creosote . . . and as for ease of cleaning . . . it's a pretty simple process to go outside, remove three screws on the cap, run the brush up and then reattach the cap . . . typically I can do this in 10-15 minutes . . . and clean up is pretty simple . . . I only put away my brush and tools and go inside to wash my hand since the little bit of creosote is now on the ground.

No question that there are multiple perfectly acceptable, safe, and effective ways to install a woodstove. Each installation is somewhat unique, and must be tailored to the structure, the code/mfr's requirements, and the desires of the homeowner. I certainly didn't mean to imply that there was anything inherently "wrong" with going out and up with an exterior flue...I know full well that it works perfectly fine for lots and lots of burners. Rick

ETA: The OP's original question about the external flue had to do specifically with whether or not it would decrease the probability of a chimney fire spreading into the structure. Well, if you're planning on having a chimney fire, I'd say that having the flue as far away from the structure as possible is a pretty good idea. Actually, if you're planning on having a chimney fire, you might just want to heat your house with something other than a solid fuel-burning appliance. Regardless of the flue configuration, I think chimney fires are relatively easy to prevent. Said it all before...proper installation, seasoned fuel, thoughtful operation, regular inspection, maintenance, cleaning. A lot of factors need to be considered in the selection and installation of a woodstove, and in most cases overall cost is an important one. If the structure offers the homeowner the choice between going up inside with single or double wall stovepipe, then out the top with Class A to daylight, or out the wall and all the way to daylight up with Class A, choice number one will invariably cost less. That might be an important consideration in some cases.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Jake and Rick are both right!

Our chimney is also on the outside of the house and we get along just fine. Cleaning is super easy and I don't have to climb on top of the house or up a ladder. But then, since getting our cat stove we find that our chimney rarely needs cleaning anyway. That is a big plus because of less work and it also means we don't have to worry about chimney fires.

Rick stated correctly that if one plans on having a chimney fire then he should not burn wood! But as he states, those fires are easy to prevent if you do things right. In over 50 years of wood burning we have never seen a chimney fire nor we ever expect to have one.

 

[firefighterjake]

...I usually agree with you Rick . . . but I have to say my outside exterior stainless steel chimney may perhaps lose some heat, but the Oslo is heating my 1,800 square foot house fine . . . there is very little creosote . . . and as for ease of cleaning . . . it's a pretty simple process to go outside, remove three screws on the cap, run the brush up and then reattach the cap . . . typically I can do this in 10-15 minutes . . . and clean up is pretty simple . . . I only put away my brush and tools and go inside to wash my hand since the little bit of creosote is now on the ground.

No question that there are multiple perfectly acceptable, safe, and effective ways to install a woodstove. Each installation is somewhat unique, and must be tailored to the structure, the code/mfr's requirements, and the desires of the homeowner. I certainly didn't mean to imply that there was anything inherently "wrong" with going out and up with an exterior flue...I know full well that it works perfectly fine for lots and lots of burners. Rick

ETA: The OP's original question about the external flue had to do specifically with whether or not it would decrease the probability of a chimney fire spreading into the structure. Well, if you're planning on having a chimney fire, I'd say that having the flue as far away from the structure as possible is a pretty good idea. Actually, if you're planning on having a chimney fire, you might just want to heat your house with something other than a solid fuel-burning appliance. Regardless of the flue configuration, I think chimney fires are relatively easy to prevent. Said it all before...proper installation, seasoned fuel, thoughtful operation, regular inspection, maintenance, cleaning. A lot of factors need to be considered in the selection and installation of a woodstove, and in most cases overall cost is an important one. If the structure offers the homeowner the choice between going up inside with single or double wall stovepipe, then out the top with Class A to daylight, or out the wall and all the way to daylight up with Class A, choice number one will invariably cost less. That might be an important consideration in some cases.

. . . and so I continue to agree with Rick . . . although I should probably see what his stance on splitting with a woodsplitter is -- horizontal or the wrong way?

 

[fossil]

. . . and so I continue to agree with Rick . . . although I should probably see what his stance on splitting with a woodsplitter is -- horizontal or the wrong way?

Typically horizontal...but I've been known to go vertical from time to time. Rick

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Well, Jake is wrong on this point, but then, he usually is.... Some things are done best horizontally, and splitting wood is best done vertically.

 

[WildOlive]

Well, we're definitely not *planning* to have a chimney fire, I just want to make an educated decision. As far as my inlaws were concerned, the fire investigator never could really tell them for sure what caused the fire, and as far as they knew they were doing everything right. So, while I'm certainly not planning on a chimney fire, I do want to be as prepared and informed as possible.

As far as the catalytic vs. non-cat., I'm trying to think ahead. What if our economy really deteriorates and we can't get a new catalyst when we need one? Or if we can't afford one? Or the manure hits the fan in some other way? This is why non-cat. appeals to me.

This is a great forum, you all are so helpful! )

 

[Backwoods Savage]

On the chimney fires, one should understand that if everything is installed within code limits or above those limits, you should be pretty well protected. So you will be prepared with the installation plus your alarms in the house. On the economy, if it were to get that bad then would you be able to run the chain saw? Would you be able to haul it to the house? etc., etc. As for cost of maintenance, there is as much cost in maintaining a non-cat as there is a cat stove.

I do not know if we would receive the same benefits with a non-cat as we do with our cat stove but I do know that we were of somewhat the same opinion as you are when we started looking at a new stove. After some research and also knowing of Woodstock's great reputation we did buy the cat stove. It has been a wonderful journey ever since with the biggest benefit being that we now burn only half the amount of wood we used to and stay a whole lot warmer. Oh yes, we will probably be replacing the cat in our stove come fall. We're looking forward to seeing how the newer cats do and the reports have been good.

Good luck.

 

[begreen]

Well, we're definitely not *planning* to have a chimney fire, I just want to make an educated decision. As far as my inlaws were concerned, the fire investigator never could really tell them for sure what caused the fire, and as far as they knew they were doing everything right. So, while I'm certainly not planning on a chimney fire, I do want to be as prepared and informed as possible.

As far as the catalytic vs. non-cat., I'm trying to think ahead. What if our economy really deteriorates and we can't get a new catalyst when we need one? Or if we can't afford one? Or the manure hits the fan in some other way? This is why non-cat. appeals to me.

This is a great forum, you all are so helpful! )

There is something to be said for the KISS principle. A simple stove has less to go wrong with it. Where a cat makes the difference is mostly during the shoulder seasons when fires are smaller or burning at a lower rate. If the stove is primarily going to be used during the colder weather months, then this feature may be of lower value. If the goal is to have a heater that runs 24/7 from October to April, then a cat stove may be a good fit.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Well, we're definitely not *planning* to have a chimney fire, I just want to make an educated decision. As far as my inlaws were concerned, the fire investigator never could really tell them for sure what caused the fire, and as far as they knew they were doing everything right. So, while I'm certainly not planning on a chimney fire, I do want to be as prepared and informed as possible.

As far as the catalytic vs. non-cat., I'm trying to think ahead. What if our economy really deteriorates and we can't get a new catalyst when we need one? Or if we can't afford one? Or the manure hits the fan in some other way? This is why non-cat. appeals to me.

This is a great forum, you all are so helpful! )

There is something to be said for the KISS principle. A simple stove has less to go wrong with it. Where a cat makes the difference is mostly during the shoulder seasons when fires are smaller or burning at a lower rate. If the stove is primarily going to be used during the colder weather months, then this feature may be of lower value. If the goal is to have a heater that runs 24/7 from October to April, then a cat stove may be a good fit.

BeGreen, I'm not so sure about your first statement and the 2 that are highlighted seem conflicting. Your first statement there I respectfully disagree with very strongly. While it is true that the shoulder seasons is one are where a cat stove really shines, it also makes a huge difference no matter how you run the stove and no matter what the weather. Being able to damper the stove down to a slow burn with no flame or very little flame can be just as beneficial during mid winter as it can during spring or fall.

Oh yes, I certainly agree with the KISS principle and would also put a cat stove in this category the same as a secondary burn type stove. One is not more complicated than the other; both can be very simple to operate.

 

[begreen]

When it is cold out, a cat stove is going to need to burn hot enough to replace heat loss from the house, often at a rapid rate of 30,000btus/hr or higher. At that point, as far as I can tell, wood consumption and operation of a cat or a non-cat are pretty much equal unless the stove is thermostatically regulated.

 

[gyrfalcon]

. As for cost of maintenance, there is as much cost in maintaining a non-cat as there is a cat stove.

Hello? What cost is involved in maintaining a non-cat stove?

 

[gyrfalcon]

Well, we're definitely not *planning* to have a chimney fire, I just want to make an educated decision. As far as my inlaws were concerned, the fire investigator never could really tell them for sure what caused the fire, and as far as they knew they were doing everything right. So, while I'm certainly not planning on a chimney fire, I do want to be as prepared and informed as possible.

Hi, and welcome.

In the five years I've lived in VT, where half the population heats with wood, I've only heard about one serious chimney fire that damaged the structure. I never heard the details on how that happened because it was in another part of the state and just something I saw on the news. The volunteer fire guys here say they've never seen one. A less serious chimney fire isn't all that uncommon and I know of several, but every one of them was with people who were burning unseasoned wood and also not cleaning their chimneys regularly. In any case, all that happened was that the creosote built up inside the chimney started to burn, the fire guys came and doused it, and no harm was done except that the owners were embarrassed as hell.

Chimney fires ONLY happen as a result of a bad build-up of creosote, and if you check the chimney regularly and clean it out, you can even get away with burning less than perfectly seasoned wood safely. My first year burning, I did not have good wood and was still learning my stove so ran a lot of smoldering smoky fires, and still had no creosote and only a couple cups of soot in the chimney. These modern stoves really burn clean. (I have a double-wall interior flue that makes a two 45-degree turns just under the ceiling/roofline, and the chimney itself then goes straight up about 20 feet.)

As I understand it, the danger to the structure in a chimney fire is from where a wildly overheated flu or chimney goes through the roof or wall, so an interior flue is no more dangerous, assuming you've done the clearances right, than an exterior. There aren't going to be flaming chunks of metal flying off the flue onto your floor. The interior flue does have other advantages, though, one of which is that you get some heat into the room from the flue itself, even if it's double-walled.

All of that is assuming your chimney and stove install are done correctly, so that's where you want to be super-careful to have it done by somebody who knows what they're doing. But a lot of the guys who hang out on this forum have gone the DIY route, and as far as I know, none of them have come to grief from it.

 

[gdk84]

Ah yes the debate between the cat and non cat stoves. both types heat a home just fine, they work and operate just fine, both types are great stoves. Both types can burn your house down just fine if not properly run. I think the OP needs some re-assuring that stoves are safe no matter cat or non cat if properly run and maintained, and how to safely operate them to be efficient worry free heaters... and its not rocket science either, just simple common sense.

 

[begreen]

. As for cost of maintenance, there is as much cost in maintaining a non-cat as there is a cat stove.

Hello? What cost is involved in maintaining a non-cat stove?

Depends on the stove. Baffle boards need regular replacement in some models, refractory in others. Some stoves have sacrificial burn plates.

 

[firefighterjake]

. . . and so I continue to agree with Rick . . . although I should probably see what his stance on splitting with a woodsplitter is -- horizontal or the wrong way?

Typically horizontal...but I've been known to go vertical from time to time. Rick

Still agreeing with Rick!

 

[Backwoods Savage]

When it is cold out, a cat stove is going to need to burn hot enough to replace heat loss from the house, often at a rapid rate of 30,000btus/hr or higher. At that point, as far as I can tell, wood consumption and operation of a cat or a non-cat are pretty much equal unless the stove is thermostatically regulated.

I fail to understand why, in our stove I can operate it around 600 degrees stove top and dial the draft down enough so that I get no flame whereas other stoves have flame.....how can both stoves burn the same amount of wood? Would not the stove with flame burn its wood up faster? Now if I burn my stove so that I have flame and the cat is glowing red, then we would burn the same amount of wood.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

. As for cost of maintenance, there is as much cost in maintaining a non-cat as there is a cat stove.

Hello? What cost is involved in maintaining a non-cat stove?

Depends on the stove. Baffle boards need regular replacement in some models, refractory in others. Some stoves have sacrificial burn plates.

Thanks BeGreen, you beat me on that one.