Newbie needs some advice

[Clofgreen]

I've decided it's time to put some kind of wood burning stove in my house. I was recently appointed as our Community Emergency Preparedness Coordinator and thought I better get myself prepared if I'm going to help others prepare.

Living in snow country and two miles from a major fault that is long overdue to slip, I've started to think about staying warm if a major snow storm knocks out power or an earthquake happens in the dead of winter. So I started searching the Internet and found this forum. I've cruised around a bit but there is soooo much info here and so much of it discussed between pros that I thought I'd ask a few questions to get started.

First, a bit about my house. It was built in the mid 70s and is 1900 s.f. The main level is above a garage and a basement family room. The living room has a high sloping ceiling, a large expanse of single pain windows and an inefficient fireplace surrounded by thick stone from floor to ceiling.

My idea is to 1, put an insert in our current fireplace, 2, put a stove in front of the fireplace, or 3, put a stove in the family room in the basement which has a place built for a stove directly under the fireplace above.

I will not likely use the stove very much for everyday heating. I'll use it occasionally during very cold weather or when my wife wants to get romantic or when that storm hits and I'm without power for a week. Also, I don't want to spend any more $$ than is absolutely necessary. I already have a fairly large supply of aged wood from trees I've cut down over the past several years including Scotch Pine, Atlas Cedar, Silver Maple, Honey Locust, and Mulberry.

Here are my questions to help start the discussion:

1. Would a fireplace insert work as well as a stove?
2. Is it better to put the stove on the main level or put it in the basement family room and try to vent/blow the warm air up to the main level?
3. If a basement stove: I assume that there should already be a separate flue space running from the basement since it seems to have been built for a stove but also assume that the cheapskate builder wouldn't have put any kind of liner in it. What kind of liner should I be looking at installing or what search criteria should I use to find relevant threads? I don't know what the chimney is made of. It's clad with wood siding.
4. Based on some of the things I read on the forum I did a search in the local classifieds for wood stoves. There is an older Jotul 118 that has just been restored for sale for $300 and an Englander of some kind for $250. Would something like this work?
5. Looking at the list of wood species I have available above, is any of it not good for burning (assuming it is aged properly).

Thanks for a great forum and for any advice you are willing to give.

Craig

PS I'll see if I can load pictures of my house and the stove for sale.

My house

Englander stove

 

[begreen]

Welcome. In general you will do best to put the heat where you need it. That sounds like the main floor of the house. A freestanding stove will often heat better than an insert, especially when the power is out. But there are some good inserts that will convect pretty well even with the blower off. That i what I would look at if you are considering an insert.

 

[Jags]

If you are looking for emergency heat, you need to consider lack of electricity. As BG stated, "most" inserts really need a blower to get the heat out. A stand alone stove doesn't. The old Englander that your looking at is/was a solid old stove but I believe that one predates the burn technology in use today (smoke dragon). That might not be a big deal as an emergency backup, but I would recommend you start a new post asking "how many people went from occasional burner to frequent burner". You may be surprised at the responses. Just say'in.

 

[fossil]

Welcome to the forums! Dunno about Utah, but here in Oregon it would be illegal to install that old Englander, cute as it may be. Emissions being the reason. Nice home. Rick

 

[SpeakEasy]

"how many people went from occasional burner to frequent burner". You may be surprised at the responses. Just say'in.

Ya.

When I decided to install a wood-burning appliance, I really had no thought of becoming a nearly 24/7 burner. Once I got that fire going, I didn't want to put it out!

-Speak

 

[Fake coal burner]

Need epa faze 2 stove for Utah law. Clean air act. Its nice to have back up when power goes out or use daily. I don't think you can do much about the earth quake coming. The fault line runs right out the front door of my place 50 feet and goes your way. You will get some heat from he insert with out blower very little. Have you thought about a heath mount stove in front of your fire lace? Some look nice and give you more heat out into the room. I would install it in the room where you and family will be using most of the time. You can allays use small fan on the floor to blow cold air into the room that stove is in to get air to move around the house. Good luck neighbor.

 

[Wood Duck]

I'd personally go with a free-standing wood stove on the main floor of the house. I think a free standing wtoce will heat better than an insert, especially if the power goes out. I think a stove on the main floor, where you spend your time, will be more enjoyable and easier to keep an eye on than a stove in the basement, plus you will experience the heat more if you're near the stove.

I'd think about a relatively low cost but new stove because the newer stoves are more efficient, and I'd be a little concerned about a used stove having damage or wear that could cause problems. Check out prices for a Englander 30NC or 13 NC as a baseline. Those are good stoves, and there are probably other makes available locally at similar prices (my Lopi was about the same price as an Englander, for example).

Since this is your emergency backup, you'll want a stove that can heat the whole place at least enough to keep it above freezing, so buy something rated for a little more space than you have. not too many people think their wood stove is too large, but plenty think their stove is too small.

Any species of wood is fine to burn. Some woods are more dense than others, and the BTU content of wood is proportional to the weight, so the denser the wood the more BTUs it holds, but take what you can get. I guess firewood should season pretty quickly in your dry climate. Seaseoned wood (wood that has dried out inside, which takes months or years, depending on the species and the climate) will make any stove burn a lot better than unseasoned wood.

Once you get the hang of it you'll probably enjoy fires more than you think. I don't like cold weather, but I do look forward to burning wood in the stove.

 

[barwick11]

Everyone mentioned that an insert needs to have a blower to get power out in an emergency.

That shouldn't be a problem for you. Being the emergency preparedness manager, I presume you've got (at a minimum) a portable generator on hand at your house to supply power.

That being said, myself I prefer everything to be nestled all nice and cozy in a fireplace. So my vote... insert. With glass doors so you & wife can "get cozy" as you mentioned.

 

[begreen]

Running a generator 24/7 is a pain, a waste of fuel, noise for the neighbors and unnecessary. There are inserts that convect pretty well if a freestanding stove won't work here.

 

[tickbitty]

Gorgeous house! Get an EPA rated stove that's in your accepted price range wherever that may be! You will be safer, "greener" and prepared, plus the way they make stoves these days the glass really does stay clear and there's really something about the wood heat and light show that makes the effort worth it, I bet you end up using it more than you think!

If you are considering inserts there are several types like my Lopi that extend out of the fireplace enough for good heat even without the blower, as well as a good sized cooktop. (10") If you have the space for a freestanding stove and it's setup though, you can get a nice Englander (new one!) for cheaper than my insert and get even more cook space etc.

 

[barwick11]

Running a generator 24/7 is a pain, a waste of fuel, noise for the neighbors and unnecessary. There are inserts that convect pretty well if a freestanding stove won't work here.

Yeah, generators can make noise, but we're not talking about running every light for a month. If you're worried about too much noise, those Honda 1000W generators make enough power and are dang near silent. I was standing right next to one at a corn maze once, and thought the neighbor a half mile away was running a generator.

They also make a 2000W version, but 1000W is enough to run an insert fan (if necessary), minimal lights, and a powered fan for a hot water heater (if you've got a high efficiency one that requires a fan to vent combustion).

 

[begreen]

Yes, they are pretty quiet. The point being that running a generator 24/7 is unnecessary if you have an insert or stove that convects reasonably well without the blower.

 

[barwick11]

Yes, they are pretty quiet. The point being that running a generator 24/7 is unnecessary if you have an insert or stove that convects reasonably well without the blower.

I dunno, I suppose an energy storage system (batteries or something) with a DC-AC transformer would be better for occasional use items like water heater pumps and such. But then again, there's a fridge that needs to be run, etc. I just like the idea of having a generator available for the myriad of uses in a house, and until a guy I know successfully builds a superconducting magnetic energy storage system that operates above room temperature, we're stuck with messy batteries

 

[jonwright]

I never really thought about burning wood until I bought a house in the country that already had one. Once I started to use it the heat output just feels different than the heat pump/electric heat available in my area (we don't have gas lines here). We used to loose electricity often, so that meant not being able to cook unless we had something sitting on top of the Buck stove.

That being said like many folks here it became a bit of a routine with me. There is just something cozy about coming home to a fire. And when you have snow/wet clothes you can place them on the hearth and they dry very quickly. Not to mention enjoying near zero electric bill. And the kids really enjoy backing up to the stove on the cold mornings and placing their clothes on there to warm them up.

So I'd say a stove is probably what you may wish to consider especially if you are primarily worried about power outages. They will still put out copious amounts of heat and you can put a pot of chilli on there.

You may have to do some modifications to your current fireplace but if you prowl around the pictures you'll see where folks have put in stoves in a fireplace in an alcove install.

Most folks here are purists and very much professional/hobbyist for wood stoves. Around here you can buy a $300 stove from Tractor Supply and put it in yourself.

But it just boils down to what you like. If you just don't want a stove in your living room go for an insert. Personally I don't like the way many insert look (like the Bucks) but I DID go with a zero clearance unit for my new living room as I've grown accustomed to burning wood all the time. I wouldn't have put all the $$ in it if I didn't.

 

[Clofgreen]

I'm amazed at the speed, number and quality of the responses. Thanks to all who responded.

You guys are right; No doubt I will become a 24/7 burner. I have built a number of rocket stoves and cook with them all the time and am in the process of building an outdoor wood fired oven. I do love the smell and feel of a good fire. (Here's a link to my wood oven design if anyone is interested. Scroll to the bottom of this page http://www.fornobravo.com/forum/8/continued-design-ideas-16434-6.html )

I'll need to go with a stove or an insert that doesn't need electricity. Despite being the Preparedness Coordinator I don't have a generator and really don't plan on getting one. Someone on the forum has an Aldo Leopold quote. He's kind of a hero of mine and ever since I read A Sand County Almenac book way back in school I've tried to become a kind of "live off the land" kinda guy even though I've lived in cities ever since I got married. My wife (who grew up in a small town just outside Sand County Wisconsin and my father-in-law, a game warden, knew Mr. Leopold) and I grow much of our own food and are proud owners of nine laying hens, three of which are soon to become chicken soup. But I digress.

Given our small living room I would have to find a fairly slim stove, perhaps one that has a window in the front but loads the wood from the side (I think I've seen one like that) or a decent insert. I'll try to load up a picture of our living room and see if it can generate some discussion of an appropriate solution.

Thanks again for an amazing forum.

Craig

 

[fredarm]

"Given our small living room I would have to find a fairly slim stove, perhaps one that has a window in the front but loads the wood from the side (I think I’ve seen one like that) or a decent insert."

Sounds like you're describing a Woodstock Fireview! Also consider a hearth stove--it's like an insert that sticks out of the fireplace so you don't need a fan. Hearthstone makes one (the Homestead) as does Regency.

 

[begreen]

I was thinking of the Jotul F600, but Woodstock does have a nice sale going on right now on the Fireview.