Newbie to the Forum

[gfacter]

Hello all.

Just dropping by to say thanks for helpful info posted here.

I bought a home on a mountain overlooking Front Royal, at 2200 Feet up I new Winter was going to be different than the MD suburb I moved from.

I bought a US Stove 5550M model in November and got around to installing it in December. I placed the unit in my unfinished basement (~1500 SF) to heat that area and heat the floors above. I hired a contractor to cut the holes in the concrete foundation. He kind of got the holes on the right place (except for the OAK) and didnt make too much of a mess with all the concrete dust.I did the rest.

EVL, My first mistake.

I found out about this here after my stove was installed with 3" pipe. I am at 14, US stove recommends 12, plus I am at 2200 feet up. I placed the stove under my bedroom and away from the windows in the basement and the Propane tanks outside. This required me running the pipe inside about 6 feet to a 90 through the foundation.

So after running the stove and getting a overflowing burnpot and some research I think I probably need a 4" Exhaust. That will be a Summer/Fall 2012 project.

I am still working out the Auger settings (way down) and intake fan settings (way up) and go for a few days, then the system needs a full cleaning, including the leaf-blower (this is great). With just the Pellets I get 74 degrees in the basement and 65 in the rest of the house when I turn on the furnace fan. I was hoping for higher heat output but it's ok.

Here are some pics, it's a DIY job as the pics show.

Stove and wimpy pile of Pellets

Intake and Exhaust, they were supposed to be offset. the Intake pipe is a 2.1/4 plumbing pipe with a screw on base. The sooty pipe next to the vent is a old SAT TV line.

Flex pipe from Autozone, Clean out T is inside and fixed with silicone, it's not coming off for cleaning,

 

[imacman]

First of all, welcome to the forum.

As for the EVL on the stove, I calculated it at 13. 2 90's = 10, plus 6' vertical = 3.

Yes, 4" may help a little, but I don't think that's your problem. Is there a damper adjustment on that stove? And usually when someone has to run the OAK that far, it's best to upgrade to 3" pipe.

Putting a stove into an unfinished basement is a poor choice, at best. The concrete soaks all the heat up, leaving very little to heat anything else. And trying to get what's left to go upstairs is a problem too. Explains why you only get 65 °F upstairs.

Also, get some better pellets than those Presto-Logs. Read around in the forum, and you'll get a feel for what good pellets are.....or list the ones you have available (with prices) and the members will comment on them.

Last comment....having to "go for a few days, then the system needs a full cleaning, including the leaf-blower" seems excessive. Most members do a weekly cleaning.

And thanks for the pics.

EDIT: Oooops....forgot the horizontal section going through the wall....that probably makes it at least EVL of 15. Yep, you might be better with 4" pipe.

 

[DexterDay]

Welcome. Sounds like 4" is the way to go. How much horizontal do you have after the 90* up top? Looks like a 1 ft section. So that would put you at 14'.... Thats definitely pushing it for any stove.

As imacman said, heating from an unfinished basement can be challenging. If you could put it anywhere upstairs, it would greatly increase its effectiveness at heating your home. Also, you wouldnt have to buy any 4" pipe. Your EVL could be much lower being on the Main level and not needing so much vent.

Anyways .... Welcome to the Forum.

 

[gfacter]

Thank you.

Plus 1 foot vertical?

No damper its all in the electronics.

The basement is going to get finished as some point, so that should help down the road I guess.

I think maybe the presto-logs are causing some of the recent issues, there is just a ton of Fly Ash, the other pellets (Tractor Supply and Southern States) had very little ash, but this is before I cranked up the intake fans. Tractor supply has been out and Southern States just jacked up their prices to $ 6.50 a bag. I will have to keep an eye out for good deals off-season.

The cleaning is not what I had in mind my wood stove needs much less work. I could have put another wood stove down there for less.

First of all, welcome to the forum.

As for the EVL on the stove, I calculated it at 13. 2 90's = 10, plus 6' vertical = 3.

Yes, 4" may help a little, but I don't think that's your problem. Is there a damper adjustment on that stove? And usually when someone has to run the OAK that far, it's best to upgrade to 3" pipe.

Putting a stove into an unfinished basement is a poor choice, at best. The concrete soaks all the heat up, leaving very little to heat anything else. And trying to get what's left to go upstairs is a problem too. Explains why you only get 65 °F upstairs.

Also, get some better pellets than those Presto-Logs. Read around in the forum, and you'll get a feel for what good pellets are.....or list the ones you have available (with prices) and the members will comment on them.

Last comment....having to "go for a few days, then the system needs a full cleaning, including the leaf-blower" seems excessive. Most members do a weekly cleaning.

And thanks for the pics.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

You are likely getting hammered by a few burn pot air bypasses.

First test all gaskets, check the width of the air wash, then how tight the burn pot sits in its receptacle, post a picture of the burn pot you may need to close off the top row of holes.

A number of USSC stoves have burn pot air bypasses that need to be taken care of. Which controller is on the stove you have?

 

[gfacter]

burn pot air bypasses? That is a new term to look up. The air is flowing in the upper holes and not form the bottom?

Did the dollar bill test for the door gasket, not sure what else to test. The burn pot drops easily in the receptacle. Should it be tight?

A pic of the burn pot when burning or out of the stove?

Not sure on the controller, does that come up on the display or us it on the unit?

Thanks for the assistance

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

burn pot air bypasses? That is a new term to look up. The air is flowing in the upper holes and not form the bottom?

Did the dollar bill test for the door gasket, not sure what else to test. The burn pot drops easily in the receptacle. Should it be tight?

A pic of the burn pot when burning or out of the stove?

Not sure on the controller, does that come up on the display or us it on the unit?

Thanks for the assistance

The burn pot picture not burning please, in the stove as well, how did the test on the gasket turn out and you did it at two separated spots on each side of the door correct?

Some stoves have a gasket on either the ash pan, or the door that allows access to the ash pan.

The burn pot should have very little play when seated in its receptacle.

A burn pot air bypass is anything that allows air flow to get past the burn pot without going through the bottom of the burn pot and up through the pellet pile.

The combustion blower's air flow rate must provide the proper air flow through the pellet pile for proper burning.

That means it must take into account the air wash that somewhat keeps the glass from being totally black, any air that does go through the burn pot but not through the pellet pile and any air that goes around the burn pot sitting in its receptacle.

Since the air flow is fixed at any given firing rate any air that enters the firebox (door gasket is bad for example) prevents proper air flow through the pellet pile, ash doesn't get ejected and the pellets take longer to burn. Once that happens pileup starts.

 

[gfacter]

I will take a pic in when I pull the unit back out. The gasket seemed tight but I didnt check every spot . The ash pan is just a pan, no doors to clean out from the bottom, 2 little doors (flaps) that you can lift up, and just a little bit of ash in them,

The unit seems to burn great for 48 hours or so, just a about 1 layer of pellets burning at the bottom of the pot, but when the fly ash builds up something happens. Then the pot starts to overflow.

I really need to find some different pellets, hopefully tractor supply gets more in.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I will take a pic in when I pull the unit back out. The gasket seemed tight but I didnt check every spot . The ash pan is just a pan, no doors to clean out from the bottom, 2 little doors (flaps) that you can lift up, and just a little bit of ash in them,

The unit seems to burn great for 48 hours or so, just a about 1 layer of pellets burning at the bottom of the pot, but when the fly ash builds up something happens. Then the pot starts to overflow.

I really need to find some different pellets, hopefully tractor supply gets more in.

The ash is building up because it isn't being blown from the burn pot due to insufficient air through the pellet pile, when it isn't blown out (actually sucked out) it falls under the burn pot and the build up starts there and it interferes with the air flow leading to faster build up... it is a vicious cycle.

The amount of and type of ash produced by the pellets you are burning can make it worse (happen faster or slower), but it is an air flow issue.

 

[gfacter]

Pics as Promised,

The burn pot fits fairly loose, if that is too loose how does one seal it up? Weld a bead on the burn pot?

The opening for the Air Flow is about 6 inches.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Well that doesn't look to be particularly lose.

If it were very loose you can tack weld a rim with lip around the pot so you can fit a gasket under it then the pot has a gasket seal (by pot weight) all the way around preventing the air from going up on the outside of the burn pot.

If you have some refractory mortar you can plug the two center top holes in the 4 hole row and the center hole in the 3 hole row.

So we will start looking around in the fire box for any penetrations where all of the edges are. Things like bolts holding things together any place with penetrations is a candidate for sealant.

Now when you checked the gaskets you tested two separated points on each side and the gasket provided resistance at all 8 test points, it is important that all test points provide resistance.

The air wash gap which you are measuring there is how deep?

The vent change to 4" will help given what the makers says about 12 being the switch over point. That indicates the combustion blower has a relatively smaller air flow rate than a number of stoves. The other thing that would help would be for that OAK to go to 3" and if there is any screen or fluted grate over the end of it that it be replaced with a different critter excluder.

ETA: Looks can be deceiving and we are trying to track down minor things and it might take several to have an impact.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Those two clean outs do they have a gasket or are they loose?

 

[DexterDay]

If there are air leaks within the stove, then they should be addressed as Smokey stated.

There are 2 things I completely agree with Smokey on.
1.- Sealing the burn pot. Its not too loose, but the gaps on the sides equate to a pretty significant surface area (to loose for my liking). So doing as Smokey said or even using Aluminum foil folded over several times and placed there, then setting the pot down (on one side or the other / left or right to lessen the gap) and that will seal up the gap on one side, which should make the other side significantly tighter and sealed also.

2.- Is sealing up some of those burn pot holes. The ones up top (as Smokey stated) can be sealed up. Start small, and work your way up. There are stoves out there, that when running as they were designed, need more combustion air than what was put into. Holes up that high are really not needed for combustion. Sealing them (a couple at 1st) and the burn pot side or sides, will put A LOT more air through the holes in the bottom of the pot (air needed for complete combustion and ash removal).

Going to 4" will help any system with a couple 90*'s in it.

Judging by the ash color that I see inside the firebox, its not burning to rich?? May not be optimal, but color seems o.k.. How much ash do you get inside the firebox? How much inside burn pot?

 

[gfacter]

Thanks for your help Smoky. I am marking progress.

The clean out doors just bolt down i tried some RTV thinking maybe there was a air leak, there is a small space behind them that gets some ash.

I don't know what purpose they serve

I put some fine screen mesh over the OAK with a poorly fabricated cover, maybe I need some larger mesh?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Thanks for your help Smoky. I am marking progress.

The clean out doors just bolt down i tried some RTV thinking maybe there was a air leak, there is a small space behind them that gets some ash.

I don't know what purpose they serve

I put some fine screen mesh over the OAK with a poorly fabricated cover, maybe I need some larger mesh?

Yes definitely. Make it a big globe or use a dryer vent hood without the flapper.

 

[gfacter]

Lots of ASH with these Presto Logs

All over after burning a few days, maybe a shoe box full?

This pics was after using my Shop vac, missed some in the corner, kind of a grayish brown and real fine.

 

[gfacter]

Just a update,

Used up the Presto logs and bought some Ligentics (green label) pellets from Tractor supply.

The Pellets plus the mods suggested here have made a significant difference.

I was getting fine results with the Presto logs just a lot of ash. The new Pellets produce about a 3rd less ash and have higher heat output

My basement is now 74 degrees at the middle (3) setting, even with all the heat loss from the concrete. The rest of the house is 65 degrees running the furnace fan to circulate the air.

This is on the coldest night here this year about 12-14 degrees, 22 at 11 AM Sunday.

Cheers,

 

[imacman]

I put some fine screen mesh over the OAK with a poorly fabricated cover, maybe I need some larger mesh?

I don't think that mesh is too bad....it's about the same as the one that comes from the factory on Englander stoves. You maybe could go with a mesh that had slightly larger holes, but not much. But you have to have something besides an open hole, or you could get mice, bugs, etc in there.....not good.

As for the ash color & consistency, that sounds about right, and looks OK in the pic.