Non Cat vs. Cat wood usage

[tcassavaugh]

Hey Guys, I’ve been burning wood for over 15 years in this house, most of it with a VC/Dutchwest cat stove. To take advantage of the tax credits and get a bigger box, I got a PE Summit last year. It took some getting used to but eventually it all came together and it burned pretty good. The same goes this year, its burning good; in fact too good. I seem to be going through wood at a much quicker rate with this stove than the cat stove. I keep it about mid range of teh best burn area, using a thermometer on the pipe. So, I'm not letting it runaway and go up the pipe. In fact sometimes it burns a bit too slow and i get a bunch of coals....which is another gripe...but back to my question.

Is that a trait of the new EPA approved non cat stoves or is it just a figment of my imagination. I would normally go through about 3 cords but I used a little extra last year after getting the Summit. So, this year I got 4 cords up and I’m almost already half way through that bunch of wood. I’ll certainly have go get to the woods soon and see if I can find some standing dead wood or blow downs. I just thought I’d ask and see if anyone else has run into this phenomenon? I have the cat stove sitting in the corner with an almost brand new combustor in it and have come real close to putting it back in swapping out the Summit.
Thanks in advance for your insights.

cass

 

[wkpoor]

I can't answer your question but I've barely burned a cord this yr so far on a pre EPA stove that is our only heat source for 2800sqft. I thought EPA stoves reduced wood consumption greatly.

 

[tcassavaugh]

that was what i was hoping for, but it hasn't been the case so far. certainly prittier to watch the secondaries burn than the old stove but i am going through a bunch of wood.

cass

 

[jharkin]

It varies, but most cat stove have quoted efficiencies around 5-10% higher than non-cats. you would have to carefully measure your wood to notice I think

this December has been much colder than last year in many locations, which could explain it. Or are you maybe keeping the house at a slightly warmer indoor temp than with the old stove?

 

[pen]

A common problem is habit. I had a hard time of breaking my old burning habits when switching to the new stove. Basically, I was loading this thing too often. My old stove would never go more than 9 hours between loads. It took a long while for me to realize that my new stove could go 12 hours w/ less than a full load.

If you have a warm house, an issue w/ too much coals, and are going through more wood, I think you are loading the stove too frequently, perhaps on your old schedule?

If not, are you loading the stove right up and letting it just cycle, going 12 hours between loads? Are you adding a split or 2 every hour? Maybe your other patterns need to change for this stove.

pen

 

[Todd]

I use to burn 1 full cord more in my previous non cats in this house compared to my current cat stove. I have made some insulation improvements but don't think it would make a full cord difference. My cat stove just seems more efficient and longer burning. I think non cats suck in a little more air for secondary combustion and have a little more heat going up the stack than cat stoves.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

It really would be an interesting experiment to run the 2 types of stoves the same in the same sq. ft. etc but it would really be difficult. So all we can do is approximate and guesstimate. I do know for sure that our cat stove drastically cut down on the amount of wood we burn.

As for this year, for sure December was colder than normal for most of us. Now it appears we are going to be in a warmer than normal period and January is forecast for most of us to be above normal so it will probably balance out at the end of the year. However, even with the cold December, it appears that we have burned less this year so far than we did last year. Strange.

 

[tcassavaugh]

A common problem is habit. I had a hard time of breaking my old burning habits when switching to the new stove. Basically, I was loading this thing too often. My old stove would never go more than 9 hours between loads. It took a long while for me to realize that my new stove could go 12 hours w/ less than a full load.

If you have a warm house, an issue w/ too much coals, and are going through more wood, I think you are loading the stove too frequently, perhaps on your old schedule?

If not, are you loading the stove right up and letting it just cycle, going 12 hours between loads? Are you adding a split or 2 every hour? Maybe your other patterns need to change for this stove.pen

Good point. I don't think I'm carrying over the old habit. I know this one has a longer burn time. Mabe its because it has a bigger box and i use more at a time. It may just be perception that the cat stove used less....but you know what they say about perception and reality.

Good points on it being the coldest December in a while too.

Thanks guys, I appreciate your inputs, knowledges and thoughts on the matter.

Happy New Year! Guess i better use the day off to run my chain saw and add to the wood pile.(lol)

cass

 

[Ken45]

Has your wood species changed, or how seasoned the wood is?

You will get a lot more heat out of the heavier woods like sugar maple than you will out of red or silver maples.

Regarding coals, some species like oak create a lot more coals than walnut or elm.

Ken

 

[BrotherBart]

The first season with a large firebox non-cat is a challenge. Your wood usage will come down some next season. And probably some more the season after that. One thing you will find with time and practice is that a smaller load will burn around the same amount of time that it would in a smaller stove. The other thing is with the room you have to work with you can put a couple of very large splits N/S in it with an inch or two between them and resting on a small coal bed up front, settle it in around five hundred stove top and get a pretty darn good burn and coals for five or six hours when you are around the house or not going be gone all day.

You don't have to load it up and go balls to the wall to burn clean. Up around 450 to 500 degrees with a nice little fire in that big sucker and that chimney will be just putting out heat waves. Without all of the much wanted on hearth.com blast furnace secondary burn up top. Just a pretty fire in that big glass.

 

[mtcates]

Isn't it all about the efficiency of the stove and the heat requirements of your house. I mean if I need 75 million btu's per winter to heat my home, I need to burn enough wood to do so. I can't see cutting my wood consumption in half by modifying my burning habits. Am I wrong? I've only been heating with wood for 5 years now.

 

[charly]

It really would be an interesting experiment to run the 2 types of stoves the same in the same sq. ft. etc but it would really be difficult. So all we can do is approximate and guesstimate. I do know for sure that our cat stove drastically cut down on the amount of wood we burn.

As for this year, for sure December was colder than normal for most of us. Now it appears we are going to be in a warmer than normal period and January is forecast for most of us to be above normal so it will probably balance out at the end of the year. However, even with the cold December, it appears that we have burned less this year so far than we did last year. Strange.

I remember someone on here saying they just purchased a Fireview and already owned a country stove, and planned on burning them both and compare the two on wood useage. Maybe he'll chime in. Be interesting.

 

[Todd]

It really would be an interesting experiment to run the 2 types of stoves the same in the same sq. ft. etc but it would really be difficult. So all we can do is approximate and guesstimate. I do know for sure that our cat stove drastically cut down on the amount of wood we burn.

As for this year, for sure December was colder than normal for most of us. Now it appears we are going to be in a warmer than normal period and January is forecast for most of us to be above normal so it will probably balance out at the end of the year. However, even with the cold December, it appears that we have burned less this year so far than we did last year. Strange.

I remember someone on here saying they just purchased a Fireview and already owned a country stove, and planned on burning them both and compare the two on wood useage. Maybe he'll chime in. Be interesting.

That was Ridgerunner30. He has posted some results in a thread or two and just like I figured the Fireview is out shinning the Country stove. :coolsmirk:

My comparison was with a Hearthstone Homestead vs Woodstock Fireview and when you measure the usable fire box space they are pretty close. Both were in the same house, same chimney. I burned the Homestead for 3 years and averaged 4 cords per year, have had Fireview for 5 years and average 3 cords. With the Fireview there is less tinkering with the air, less loading, longer burns and the house is warmer. Pretty much sold me on cat soapstone stoves.

 

[BrotherBart]

I agree with Todd. Non-cat stoves are evil wood wasters. You should put that Summit out on the curb and save wood. I can be there in an hour to properly dispose of it. :cheese:

 

[tcassavaugh]

I agree with Todd. Non-cat stoves are evil wood wasters. You should put that Summit out on the curb and save wood. I can be there in an hour to properly dispose of it. :cheese:

Thanks Bart, I appreciate the assist, although I'll probably have to suffer with it another year. I have looked really close at the BK with the cat. I've heard so many good things about it here in the Forum, i had to look it up. I really like the deep box and the burn times with the thermostat. Mabe i can sell them both to help pay for and offset the cost.

cass

 

[charly]

It really would be an interesting experiment to run the 2 types of stoves the same in the same sq. ft. etc but it would really be difficult. So all we can do is approximate and guesstimate. I do know for sure that our cat stove drastically cut down on the amount of wood we burn.

As for this year, for sure December was colder than normal for most of us. Now it appears we are going to be in a warmer than normal period and January is forecast for most of us to be above normal so it will probably balance out at the end of the year. However, even with the cold December, it appears that we have burned less this year so far than we did last year. Strange.

I remember someone on here saying they just purchased a Fireview and already owned a country stove, and planned on burning them both and compare the two on wood useage. Maybe he'll chime in. Be interesting.

That was Ridgerunner30. He has posted some results in a thread or two and just like I figured the Fireview is out shinning the Country stove. :coolsmirk:

My comparison was with a Hearthstone Homestead vs Woodstock Fireview and when you measure the usable fire box space they are pretty close. Both were in the same house, same chimney. I burned the Homestead for 3 years and averaged 4 cords per year, have had Fireview for 5 years and average 3 cords. With the Fireview there is less tinkering with the air, less loading, longer burns and the house is warmer. Pretty much sold me on cat soapstone stoves.

Todd that's great news. I think next year my Quad will be heating my garage, and either a Fireview or the new stove will be heating my house. Found out my farm house was reinsulated pretty good before we bought it. The Quad heats it pretty nice, so I'm sure one of the Woodstocks will do just fine. Can't wait.

 

[BrowningBAR]

With the Fireview there is less tinkering with the air, less loading, longer burns and the house is warmer. Pretty much sold me on cat soapstone stoves.

Interesting. I noticed I spend less time fiddling with the Heritage than I do with the Intrepid (Cat). But I think that has more to do with the stove itself than it does with it being a Cat stove.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Isn't it all about the efficiency of the stove and the heat requirements of your house. I mean if I need 75 million btu's per winter to heat my home, I need to burn enough wood to do so. I can't see cutting my wood consumption in half by modifying my burning habits. Am I wrong? I've only been heating with wood for 5 years now.

Hummmm. "Can't see cutting wood consumption in half...." Why not?! If I could again cut my wood consumption in half, I'd gladly modify my burning habits. Or am I reading your post wrong?

 

[mtcates]

Isn't it all about the efficiency of the stove and the heat requirements of your house. I mean if I need 75 million btu's per winter to heat my home, I need to burn enough wood to do so. I can't see cutting my wood consumption in half by modifying my burning habits. Am I wrong? I've only been heating with wood for 5 years now.

Hummmm. "Can't see cutting wood consumption in half...." Why not?! If I could again cut my wood consumption in half, I'd gladly modify my burning habits. Or am I reading your post wrong?

What I was saying is that If I need 75 million btu's to keep my home at an average of 70 degrees all winter, and my stove is on an average 70% thermal efficiency, then I must burn X amount of wood to do so. That would be about 4 and a half cords of mixed hardwoods. If my stove was 80% thermal efficient I would still have to burn 4 cords to get 75 million btu's in my home. There is no magic bullet to cut me down to 2 and 1/4 cords which would be half of my current wood consumption per winter. If somehow I could get 100% of the heat off of the wood (which we know is impossible) I would still need just over 3 cords per winter.