Off Grid Cabin Renovation - Texas Hill Country

[EatenByLimestone]

I believe it, but I'm stuck with the problem of how to lower the humidity if the space was sealed like that. Like how would it do during a NY summer, if summer lasted 5 months or so?

It doesn't change humidity. I'm not sure I understand the question.

 

[haber bosch]

Englander 32 NC or one of the large drolet/century stoves aka the HT 3000, Austral, FW3500, FW3200. Would be my choice, you are going to need a lot of heat with no insulation, no air sealing and a metal roof.

​

thank you, I am in fact leaning towards the FW3500 if I cant find a large vintage cast iron stove (there is an older vermont castings defiant for sale near me, but I wont be able to pick it up until next week and dont know if it will still be around)

 

[bholler]

Englander 32 NC or one of the large drolet/century stoves aka the HT 3000, Austral, FW3500, FW3200. Would be my choice, you are going to need a lot of heat with no insulation, no air sealing and a metal roof.

​

They are in Texas insulation or not they aren't really going to need all that much heat

 

[haber bosch]

It doesn't change humidity. I'm not sure I understand the question.

What I mean to say is that we have high humidity and temperature together for several months of the year, with 30 degree swings, so I am afraid it would act like a condensation trap (like adobe or concrete block houses tend to do)

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Honest question here, but wouldn't insulation work against you in the summer if you don't have AC? The house would pick heat during the day and hold the heat throughout the majority of the night, rather than cooling off (when you want it cool for sleep). I'm not disagreeing, just asking.

No. It allows me not to have to turn on AC at my house. I open my windows at night and cool down the structure. I close them in the morning and trap the cool air inside. The insulation slows down heat transfer so the cool air stays cool longer.

You're thinking of thermal mass. His cabin doesn't have much thermal mass since its just framing. Insulation is mostly air, so it doesn't have much mass either.

 

[bholler]

What I mean to say is that we have high humidity and temperature together for several months of the year, with 30 degree swings, so I am afraid it would act like a condensation trap (like adobe or concrete block houses tend to do)

Air circulation is what prevents condensation. Untill a few years ago we never had AC. Granted not in Texas but it works the same regardless of where you are. If the house is insulated well open everything up at night then shut everything first thing in the morning.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

What I mean to say is that we have high humidity and temperature together for several months of the year, with 30 degree swings, so I am afraid it would act like a condensation trap (like adobe or concrete block houses tend to do)

If you aren't there, leave the window cracked a bit and the inside and outside humidity will equalize. Since its not an air tight structure there's most likely enough air leaks around doors, etc so you don't have to worry.

Trees also work to shade roofs, etc.

 

[begreen]

Honest question here, but wouldn't insulation work against you in the summer if you don't have AC? The house would pick heat during the day and hold the heat throughout the majority of the night, rather than cooling off (when you want it cool for sleep). I'm not disagreeing, just asking.

It could, but if the place is wide open at night to cool down and then closed up during the day, then it can be more tolerable. However, this is Texas and when a cool night is 95º then nothing is going to work.

 

[haber bosch]

Air circulation is what prevents condensation. Untill a few years ago we never had AC. Granted not in Texas but it works the same regardless of where you are. If the house is insulated well open everything up at night then shut everything first thing in the morning.

yes, the cabin was insulated with typical fiberglass insulation until about a week ago, and we got some of this effect. I have found that more than air temperature transfer, I really need constant air flow and to catch as much of the wind as possible for much of the year. Typical summer lows can be 78 degrees at 5am and 90 degrees by 9am with highs in the 100s common until October. I think you are technically right that the insulation will help hold the night temperatures for longer, but if its 88 degrees inside at 11am it just doesnt matter as far as personal comfort, you really need to be outside in the wind (or bring the wind inside)

 

[haber bosch]

If you aren't there, leave the window cracked a bit and the inside and outside humidity will equalize. Since its not an air tight structure there's most likely enough air leaks around doors, etc so you don't have to worry.

Trees also work to shade roofs, etc.

Yes! I have a cedar tree (prob to northerner more of a big bush) on the southwest corner and it has a huge impact on comfort. also, have taken the ceiling out, and have louvers on both gables and a roofline vent for this very reason, and am installing the full length screened windows. I've been thinking and planning this for a few years so we'll see how it goes. If its impossible to keep heat balanced next winter, I'll have to go back to the drawing board

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I used these methods when I lived in the Houston area. It works if you find you need it.

 

[haber bosch]

Hello all, I've been a lurker but would appreciate some advice from any who would give it.

I'm in the process of renovating an off grid cabin. its stick built with T-111 siding, no insulation, ceiling or paneling, and is 20' x 30' open floor plan. It sits several feet off the ground on cement piers and I'm pulling out the windows in the photos and installing tall windows to catch the breeze (as most of the year heat and humidity are bigger factors).

However for the winter months, I am looking for a wood-fire heating solution and trying to decide between framing out a mantel with cement board finish and doing a fireplace insert, or just putting in a wood stove (thinking about something like the Woodstock Soapstone Survival Hybrid, which i think is 27,000 btus/hr, but also see people talking about the Jotul 602 and other smallish stoves, and really dont know how much stove I need). I do have a propane heater that runs off bbq cans that worked great when the cabin had insulation and ceiling, etc., but not sure how well it will work with the open floorplan, uninsulated open-rafter situation, and really I want to have the pleasure of the sight and sound of wood fire.

This is a recreational property and is only used a few days a month, but I do have small kids and need to be able to keep it reasonably warm in the winter, especially at night. Thus fuel efficiency and cost is not as important to me as effectiveness and really safety. II imagine I could just add a second propane heater and call it a day - but would prefer to find a safe way to get a wood fire in this kind of structure that would effectively heat it during in temps in the 30-40 degree low range (maybe a little frost here and there)?

Some pics are attached - thanks in advance to anyone who has some good advice for what to do in southern, humid places that get some cold now and then. I really want to enjoy it without worrying about burning it down.

So am looking at the Century FW 3500 for its larger firebox - https://myfireplaceproducts.com/us_en/fw3500-cb00024?xlan=heaters - does anybody have experience with them?

Is the steel top strong enough to hold cast iron cookware without flexing?

Are there any other stoves that would be a better fit?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

The steel will be strong enough. I think you'll find you want a smaller stove though.

 

[haber bosch]

The steel will be strong enough. I think you'll find you want a smaller stove though.

really? how much smaller?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Tx Hill Country is cooler than many parts of TX, but still fairly warm compared to the northern parts of the country. You won't be walking into a structure that's-10. You won't be seeing 10F either. This is important as trying to heat up a cold cabin at those temps takes lots of energy. Especially if you have thermal mass, which you've stripped out.

So what range will you be using it at? A low of around 20 maybe? When are you going to start getting chilly? 50-60?

I have a slightly smaller cabin (16x29) in upstate NY that runs a stove that's 2 cu ft. Its way oversized because I walk into a cold cabin that can be in the -20s. I need that to heat the place up in a reasonable amount of time. Or even hold it when there's a strong wind and its -23. A tradeoff is I can't use the stove, even with the windows open, if its more than 30 outside. Its not a big deal as I just throw on an electric heater. This isn't an option for you. The small fire in the big stove isn't going to work with the size fire you're going to need at 40 or 50 degrees.

Before I had my current stove in there I had a small Century. Look at the model in my signature. It really was a great stove for the job and much more versatile. The issue was burntime. When it got down in the negatives, the burntime dropped down to 2-3 hours. I'd get 6+ in warmer weather. As I get older I don't want to get up as often. So I upgraded the stove.

You will be able to get by with a 1 cu ft stove. It'll do everything you want. Itll also heat up quickly and cool off quickly. Now you may want a longer burn time, so it makes sense to go larger, but careful not to go too large. Radiant heat is going to melt you. 90 degrees isn't fun in the summer, its even less fun when the sun is beside you in the room. Maybe 1.25 cu ft. 1.5 is probably going to leave you in a similar situation as I am until 30 degrees is reached. Only you don't have the luxury of electric heat without a generator, or the cold temps to make this a worthy compromise.

Go for a small stove.

 

[haber bosch]

Tx Hill Country is cooler than many parts of TX, but still fairly warm compared to the northern parts of the country. You won't be walking into a structure that's-10. You won't be seeing 10F either. This is important as trying to heat up a cold cabin at those temps takes lots of energy. Especially if you have thermal mass, which you've stripped out.

So what range will you be using it at? A low of around 20 maybe? When are you going to start getting chilly? 50-60?

I have a slightly smaller cabin (16x29) in upstate NY that runs a stove that's 2 cu ft. Its way oversized because I walk into a cold cabin that can be in the -20s. I need that to heat the place up in a reasonable amount of time. Or even hold it when there's a strong wind and its -23. A tradeoff is I can't use the stove, even with the windows open, if its more than 30 outside. Its not a big deal as I just throw on an electric heater. This isn't an option for you. The small fire in the big stove isn't going to work with the size fire you're going to need at 40 or 50 degrees.

Before I had my current stove in there I had a small Century. Look at the model in my signature. It really was a great stove for the job and much more versatile. The issue was burntime. When it got down in the negatives, the burntime dropped down to 2-3 hours. I'd get 6+ in warmer weather. As I get older I don't want to get up as often. So I upgraded the stove.

You will be able to get by with a 1 cu ft stove. It'll do everything you want. Itll also heat up quickly and cool off quickly. Now you may want a longer burn time, so it makes sense to go larger, but careful not to go too large. Radiant heat is going to melt you. 90 degrees isn't fun in the summer, its even less fun when the sun is beside you in the room. Maybe 1.25 cu ft. 1.5 is probably going to leave you in a similar situation as I am until 30 degrees is reached. Only you don't have the luxury of electric heat without a generator, or the cold temps to make this a worthy compromise.

Go for a small stove.

Most typical use case would be starting to warm as sun goes down in winter and temps start to go to 50s, maybe low of 30s by the next morning. The smallest Century stove seems to be about 1.85 cu ft and the smallest Napoleon at about 1.75 cu ft - do you see these as options, or should I be looking at the little cast iron stoves without the view windows like US Stove makes, or even those wall tent camp style stoves?

 

[begreen]

Usable firebox size is what you want to go by. The smallest Century has a 1.55 cu ft usable (not total) firebox size. The same firebox is in the Drolet Escape 1200 (or Spark).

S250

- Small size firebox, ideal for tight spaces,- Reinforced appliance top with a stainless steel heat shield,- Cast iron door and ceramic glass,- EPA certified at 1.8 g/h ,- Non-catalytic combustion system,- Designed and made in Canada ,- **Included:** pedestal, ash lip, air intake damper and rear...

www.century-heating.com

 

[haber bosch]

Usable firebox size is what you want to go by. The smallest Century has a 1.55 cu ft usable (not total) firebox size. The same firebox is in the Drolet Escape 1200 (or Spark).

S250

- Small size firebox, ideal for tight spaces,- Reinforced appliance top with a stainless steel heat shield,- Cast iron door and ceramic glass,- EPA certified at 1.8 g/h ,- Non-catalytic combustion system,- Designed and made in Canada ,- **Included:** pedestal, ash lip, air intake damper and rear...

www.century-heating.com

So the Century S250 is likely the one I need then for an uninsulated 600 sf space in central texas?

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I think it'll serve you well.

 

[begreen]

So the Century S250 is likely the one I need then for an uninsulated 600 sf space in central texas?

Yes, that should work.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

You mention in your first post that you’re particularly interested in keeping things warm in the cabin overnight for your kids. Begreen and EatenbyLimestone both have lived in Texas and have more experience than I do with cabins and stoves, but you might want to consider firebox size. I think it would be challenging to have a good overnight burn in a stove much smaller than 2 cubic feet. Maybe consider stepping up a size or two in the Century line.

You can always build a smaller fire in a larger box, but if you have a 1.5 cu. ft. firebox there’s only so much wood you can put in there. Another thing to consider is the quality of your firewood. You mention having a lot of cedar, which works very well for us. We primarily use that and Escarpment Live Oak for our burning, but in our experience neither of these woods produces nice straight split firewood. We end up with lots of curvy pieces and branch wood with twists and turns. We have a 2.5 cubic foot firebox on our insert, and we like having the extra room to be able to burn up all the funny shaped wood we have. It would be really hard to work with a small firebox. (Our 2.5 cu. ft. heats an 800 sq. ft. spaces with 10 foot ceilings (though there is a staircase which lets heat rise to the upstairs). We can overheat during the day if we reload the stove in the middle of the afternoon with full sun coming in, but it’s rare that we overheat at all. With the nights we’ve been having in the the 20’s and 30’s, it’s 66 degrees when we come down in the morning after an overnight burn. That’s with the stove having good glowing coals and still blowing heated air. I’m sure that the uninsulated slab below our tile floor absorbs a lot of our BTU’s, and we also have a huge amount of window area in that space.)

I understand the concern about getting such a large stove that you heat yourselves out of the place. I doubt you’ll be visiting there in the coldest weather, but I’d also be concerned about going too small in an uninsulated building overnight. How high are the ceilings? You talk about 600 square feet, but if you’re ceilings are higher than the standard 8 ft, you really need to think of cubic footage instead.

 

[haber bosch]

I think it'll serve you well.

@EatenByLimestone @begreen - thanks for the help - appreciate it

 

[haber bosch]

You mention in your first post that you’re particularly interested in keeping things warm in the cabin overnight for your kids. Begreen and EatenbyLimestone both have lived in Texas and have more experience than I do with cabins and stoves, but you might want to consider firebox size. I think it would be challenging to have a good overnight burn in a stove much smaller than 2 cubic feet. Maybe consider stepping up a size or two in the Century line.

You can always build a smaller fire in a larger box, but if you have a 1.5 cu. ft. firebox there’s only so much wood you can put in there. Another thing to consider is the quality of your firewood. You mention having a lot of cedar, which works very well for us. We primarily use that and Escarpment Live Oak for our burning, but in our experience neither of these woods produces nice straight split firewood. We end up with lots of curvy pieces and branch wood with twists and turns. We have a 2.5 cubic foot firebox on our insert, and we like having the extra room to be able to burn up all the funny shaped wood we have. It would be really hard to work with a small firebox. (Our 2.5 cu. ft. heats an 800 sq. ft. spaces with 10 foot ceilings (though there is a staircase which lets heat rise to the upstairs). We can overheat during the day if we reload the stove in the middle of the afternoon with full sun coming in, but it’s rare that we overheat at all. With the nights we’ve been having in the the 20’s and 30’s, it’s 66 degrees when we come down in the morning after an overnight burn. That’s with the stove having good glowing coals and still blowing heated air. I’m sure that the uninsulated slab below our tile floor absorbs a lot of our BTU’s, and we also have a huge amount of window area in that space.)

I understand the concern about getting such a large stove that you heat yourselves out of the place. I doubt you’ll be visiting there in the coldest weather, but I’d also be concerned about going too small in an uninsulated building overnight. How high are the ceilings? You talk about 600 square feet, but if you’re ceilings are higher than the standard 8 ft, you really need to think of cubic footage instead.

Ceilings are gone, its open to the roof. The roof line is about 12 ft and the perimeter interior wall is at 8 feet. And there is about to be a lot more glass around the wall as I'm replacing all windows with sliding doors. Also, the louver and roof peak vents will be letting a lot of heat go right out the top (which is a good thing for 9 months a year).

 

[haber bosch]

Yes, that should work.

piecing together my pipe and chimney parts. am i ever going to want a flue damper on the s250 ?

 

[begreen]

I'd try it without the damper. It may be fine.