OK guys, school the newbie on how to burn

[mrfjsf]

Bear with me here guys and gals,I am new to woodburning stoves. Specifically EPA stoves. I just had mine installed a few months ago and ive had around 6 burns in her so far. I just cant seem to figure out how she wants to burn. Maybe I just dont know what a proper burn looks like.

Most of my fires are cold starts for now. Will probably be like that for another year until I get out of school and working full time also and can get home at a decent hour once in a while. I want you all to critique my process and give me pointers to help get the best burn I can.

Anyhow, my procedure thus far has been:

Cold start with two medium splits on bottom two to three smaller splits atop and kindling atop that. Run that WIDE open for 20 mins roughly, then back it down to med-high to high. (any less, it tends to smoulder). I let that burn down to coals ( I like the cycle burning) then add around 4 or 5 splits (trying to fill her up or at least 3/4 full), let that catch and burn for 15 mins roughly, then bback down to med-high for another 15 mins, then back down to med-low for 15-25 mins, then down as low as she can go.

By this time burn tubes are lighting up pretty good and stove seems very hot. (I dont have a therm yet, I hope to order one next week.) Depending on the amount of hardwood I have inside, determines how long my burn tubes are burning. If I have a full load of hardwood, I have just a few coals next morn.

Does it sound like im burning this gal the right way? Im just not sure how the flames should look and when they should look like that. I know we are only in shoulder season and im not going to get real accuracy until we get colder and I get a therm. BTW, temps have been in the low 40's high 30's at night.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Pagey]

Sounds like you are having more luck than some new burners. The idea of burning in cycles is right on, as it's really the best way to operate an EPA stove. It sounds like you are keeping an eye on the fire and watching it progress through the burn cycle, which is again the right thing to do as you are learning. I've found that each fire tends to vary some visually. Some fires seem to out gas more and maintain periods of sustained, secondary combustion. Others do their "light show" relatively quicker and move on to the coaling stage.

As you burn more, you'll learn what to expect from what size load and a what species that you're burning. The thermometer is a good idea, as it helps you learn the temps your stove best operates at. Just don't obsess over them TOO much.

 

[pen]

it sounds like a GREAT start to me. If when you are in "cruise" mode go outside and look at the chimney, if there is no smoke you've got it adjusted right. If it is smoking or your glass is turning dark brown/black, then you are turning it down too much.

You are well ahead of the curve.

pen

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Bear with me here guys and gals,I am new to woodburning stoves. Specifically EPA stoves. I just had mine installed a few months ago and ive had around 6 burns in her so far. I just cant seem to figure out how she wants to burn. Maybe I just dont know what a proper burn looks like.

Most of my fires are cold starts for now. Will probably be like that for another year until I get out of school and working full time also and can get home at a decent hour once in a while. I want you all to critique my process and give me pointers to help get the best burn I can.

Anyhow, my procedure thus far has been:

Cold start with two medium splits on bottom two to three smaller splits atop and kindling atop that. Run that WIDE open for 20 mins roughly, then back it down to med-high to high. (any less, it tends to smoulder). I let that burn down to coals ( I like the cycle burning) then add around 4 or 5 splits (trying to fill her up or at least 3/4 full), let that catch and burn for 15 mins roughly, then bback down to med-high for another 15 mins, then back down to med-low for 15-25 mins, then down as low as she can go.

By this time burn tubes are lighting up pretty good and stove seems very hot. (I dont have a therm yet, I hope to order one next week.) Depending on the amount of hardwood I have inside, determines how long my burn tubes are burning. If I have a full load of hardwood, I have just a few coals next morn.

Does it sound like im burning this gal the right way? Im just not sure how the flames should look and when they should look like that. I know we are only in shoulder season and im not going to get real accuracy until we get colder and I get a therm. BTW, temps have been in the low 40's high 30's at night.

Thanks everyone!

It sounds like you sort of have the idea but I do question putting in 5 splits plus kindling and leaving it on med-high to high for the whole burn. That would tend to push most of the heat right straight up the chimney. But then, perhaps you need to do that because your wood is not dry enough?! Even on lighting the first fire we do not leave our draft set on high or med-high because if we do the stove just won't heat up worth a hoot. Dial it down even half way makes a big difference in the amount of heat that you will get and how quickly the stove will heat up. On your reload it sounds like you do pretty good though.

Good luck.

 

[firefighterjake]

Sounds good so far . . . as mentioned besides seeing the secondary combustion the other indications that your burning properly would perhaps be no smoke coming from the chimney once the fire is cruising along . . . and not having any (or very little) blackened glass.

As the temps fall . . . and dependent on how seasoned your wood is . . . you may be able to cut back the air even more than halfway . . . in my first year of burning I could only cut the air down to the quarter mark . . . last year and this year I can cut the air back to nothing . . . well as far down as I can go . . . since these stoves still allow some air to enter the firebox. The goal for me is to have a nice clean burn . . . and keep the air as closed as much as possible . . . this helps sustain the secondary burn, I get a longer burn and less heat goes up the chimney. With time, experience and well seasoned wood you may also be able to experience this wood burning nirvana and become a Jedi Woodburner like myself.

What does a secondary burn look like . . . generally it looks like one of the following: 1) You will wonder when someone installed a propane gas grill in your woodstove as blue jets of flame will be shooting out of the secondary burn tubes. 2) You will sit back with a Molson and experience the Northern Lights . . . in your woodstove . . . as there will be few flames in the firebox, but suddenly a burst of flame will appear in the upper portion of the firebox . . . only to disappear a minute later . . . and then another burst of flame will appear. 3) You will fall down to your knees in front of the woodstove and start praying since you will think the end times are here as it will appear as though a portal to Hell has opened up in your woodstove with flames billowing outwards in a rolling, angry fashion . . . do not be alarmed . . . Lucifer is not out to get you and there is no portal to Hell in your stove . . . it is only a fantastic secondary burn . . . sit back and relax and don't dial 911 . . . this is normal.

 

[pen]

A small secondary burn on a small fire.

 

[mrfjsf]

Glad to see im doing something right! I guess my main concern is, I can never seem to get the cold start fire to REALLY warm the stove up. I use the procedure above and the stove never seems to get HOT until I start the next burn cycle, then she blazes like crazy!

It almost seems as though once the kindlin burns off, the rest of the fire just sits there and smoulders a little (not much but a little), hardly any flames, the part of the split nearest the back remains only charred (not hot coals) and I have to fuss with it to get those back pieces to burn and keep the stove warm-hotish. I dont have much smoke, but it just doesnt seem to get hot enough until I start the next cycle. I try to let the cold start burn ride around medium on the damper but sometimes I need to bump her up to med-high. I can NEVER go on low during the cold start fire.

What could be my issue?

Is there an issue or is this just how it works?

Too much wood?

Not enough wood?

Closing the draft too soon or not soon enough?

Thanks again guys, I just wanna get this down right before the real burning season kicks in!

 

[pen]

Glad to see im doing something right! I guess my main concern is, I can never seem to get the cold start fire to REALLY warm the stove up. I use the procedure above and the stove never seems to get HOT until I start the next burn cycle, then she blazes like crazy!

It almost seems as though once the kindlin burns off, the rest of the fire just sits there and smoulders a little (not much but a little), hardly any flames, the part of the split nearest the back remains only charred (not hot coals) and I have to fuss with it to get those back pieces to burn and keep the stove warm-hotish. I dont have much smoke, but it just doesnt seem to get hot enough until I start the next cycle. I try to let the cold start burn ride around medium on the damper but sometimes I need to bump her up to med-high. I can NEVER go on low during the cold start fire.

What could be my issue?

Is there an issue or is this just how it works?

Too much wood?

Not enough wood?

Closing the draft too soon or not soon enough?

Thanks again guys, I just wanna get this down right before the real burning season kicks in!

Your issue is you're trying to ask for the world from a cold stove. Mine does the same stuff until I can burn 24/7. These stoves are meant to by cycled, not lit from cold constantly.

The more info you give us the better you are doing!

pen

 

[mrfjsf]

Glad to see im doing something right! I guess my main concern is, I can never seem to get the cold start fire to REALLY warm the stove up. I use the procedure above and the stove never seems to get HOT until I start the next burn cycle, then she blazes like crazy!

It almost seems as though once the kindlin burns off, the rest of the fire just sits there and smoulders a little (not much but a little), hardly any flames, the part of the split nearest the back remains only charred (not hot coals) and I have to fuss with it to get those back pieces to burn and keep the stove warm-hotish. I dont have much smoke, but it just doesnt seem to get hot enough until I start the next cycle. I try to let the cold start burn ride around medium on the damper but sometimes I need to bump her up to med-high. I can NEVER go on low during the cold start fire.

What could be my issue?

Is there an issue or is this just how it works?

Too much wood?

Not enough wood?

Closing the draft too soon or not soon enough?

Thanks again guys, I just wanna get this down right before the real burning season kicks in!

Your issue is your trying to ask for the world from a cold stove. Mine does the same stuff until I can burn 24/7. These stoves are meant to by cycled, not lit from cold constantly.

The more info you give us the better you are doing!

pen

oh, well ill just keep on keepin on then! As I said, I am a newb to stoves so im just trying to figure out how they are supposed to act and when they are supposed to act like that...Thanks!

EDIT: However, would it make more sense to start out with a very small fire, just to get a few coals rolling and the stove warmed up, then start the second cycle? Instead of trying for the gold medal right off the bat and ending up waiting around for it to burn down to coals so I can add my second?

 

[pen]

Damn buddy, if I wasn't catholic I'd say you were reincarnated and in your past you had done this before.

Starting small to get the coals is exactly what I'd suggest. Out of curiosity, what do you do for a living? You have an uncommon amount of common sense.

pen

 

[Dakotas Dad]

Some late in the burn secondaries..

 

[clr8ter]

I start with paper, kindling, some small pieces. I put damper on high, light it, leave the side door ajar for as much as 20 min to 1/2 hr. After about 45 min, the stove is around 450 deg, and the initial load a coal bed. Then I start stuffing it with bigger pieces, and when that catches, turn the damper down to about half, and when the temps come up to about 550, turn it all the way off, and then crack it slightly. But, I just started my 1st season a month ago, soooooo.......

Jotul Oslo, BTW

 

[begreen]

Maybe this illustration will help. It is not for your stove, but will give you the general picture of how I start our stove. Use dry wood for the splits. Try 4-5" splits for starters. At step 6, when you add more wood, leave the air control open until the new wood is burning vigorously. Then move the air control down until the flames just start getting lazy. Leave it there until the flame intensity builds strongly and stove top temps increase maybe 100+ °F. Then close the air down again until the flames just get lazy.

 

[mrfjsf]

Damn buddy, if I wasn't catholic I'd say you were reincarnated and in your past you had done this before.

Starting small to get the coals is exactly what I'd suggest. Out of curiosity, what do you do for a living? You have an uncommon amount of common sense.

pen

haha! Well right now, im working part time at a car dealership and im goign to school full time for my associates in specialized technology in HVAC-R. Ive always had a love for wood burning and just being in the woods in general. I gather as much info on it as I can when I can. Next to my future career it is my biggest passion. Thanks for the compliment! And if anyone has any hvac related questions, ill gladly answer!

 

[pen]

well I'm glad to hear it's hvac. You are in our neck of the woods w/ that specialty and you'll have good work with it if you stick with it. You certainly have the mind. Everyone needs to stay hot and cold in one way shape or form.

pen

 

[BrotherBart]

You are burning in the stove right and learning a trade that will never be outsourced. Kinda hard to install a heat pump if you are in India and the house is in the states.

Now answering your questions on the phone after the install is a whole nother issue. :coolsmirk:

 

[Kenster]

I don't understand the idea of putting kindling ON TOP of the other wood. Seems like the flames from the kindling would just go up with nothing above it to catch fire. I've always put kindling on the bottom, then some small splits, and maybe a larger split or two until it gets going good. It's always worked well for me. I've only been doing this about four years now so I'm still trying to learn.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Kenster, it seems to be the rage; top down fires. There was a video put out about it and a lot of the folks seem to really like doing it. Splits on the bottom, kindling on the top and some rolled and tied in knots newspaper, light the newspaper and the fire will get started. It works but if you are not having any problem doing it the old way, why change? Unless you want to experiment. I like to experiment with things and then throw out what don't work and keep what does.

Old school taught us to put the easiest lighting stuff (paper) on the bottom followed by the easiest to light kindling (shavings) followed by a teepee style or just regular style and then gradually larger stuff on top. After all, the fire tends to go up and not down so that is where the fuel should be. Well, there is some merit to the top down and I sort of use a modified top-down which I've used for many years. I do put a couple splits on the bottom, followed by kindling and follow that with small splits. I put a Super Cedar under the kindling, light the super cedar and shut the door. It starts easy and usually quite quick if I put the right wood in.

The top down school says do a complete fire with what you start with to build up some coals. Then add some big splits and you have a good fire.

Again, both works. It is a matter of preference.

 

[tlingit]

I've just started to build top down fires. I showed my skeptical husband person how to do them, and he is sold. It's been working really well for us, and a lot less messing around to get it started. Here's a link to a good site. http://www.woodheat.org/tips/topdownsteps.htm

We've been getting really nice burn time, and it is really hypnotic to watch the fire take off down the wood. Perhaps with less smoke, better combustion there is less creosote? Anyhow, this has been good for us and we are getting more heat earlier. We have an equinox, and it does take a while to warm up. It's still pretty warm up here, into the 20's at night, but soon that will change. It's nice to know an easier way for when it gets really cold. Last year we had almost two weeks where it routinely dipped to -30 at night. (Wasilla, AK).

 

[fjord]

Since when do stoves have gender ?
Jotul=male.
Woodstock=female.
VC=???? :roll:

 

[allhandsworking]

I've just started to build top down fires. I showed my skeptical husband person how to do them, and he is sold. It's been working really well for us, and a lot less messing around to get it started. Here's a link to a good site. http://www.woodheat.org/tips/topdownsteps.htm

We've been getting really nice burn time, and it is really hypnotic to watch the fire take off down the wood. Perhaps with less smoke, better combustion there is less creosote? Anyhow, this has been good for us and we are getting more heat earlier. We have an equinox, and it does take a while to warm up. It's still pretty warm up here, into the 20's at night, but soon that will change. It's nice to know an easier way for when it gets really cold. Last year we had almost two weeks where it routinely dipped to -30 at night. (Wasilla, AK).

Once you go top down you never go back. There is no fiddling or smoldering. You can fully load stove light it and walk away. I get secondary burn within 2 minutes of lighting kindling. So I guess there is no smoke coming out my chimney. Less than 1/4 cup of creosote after sweep. It works!!

 

[jadm]

It took me a long time to get the feel of my new insert. As others have said - you are doing great for just starting up. By the end of the season you will wonder why you ever even had to ask the questions you are are asking now.....

One thing I know about mine is that the first load does just warm up the stove when doing a cold start. I do not do a full load until it is up to temp. and mine doesn't do as well with the top down method. Just takes way to long to generate heat out into the living area. I also end up with charred, smoldering wood in the back of the firebox. (In epa stoves the air enters the firebox right above the glass which is why raking coals forward and having a channel in your ashes from the center front to the back helps burn wood more efficiently.)

I start with kindling and a couple of splits of pine topped with one piece of hardwood. When that gets going and top of insert is about 500 - 600* I know I can fill it up and keep it at it's cruising temp. while putting out great heat.

Just know, as others have said, cold starts do take longer. You are not only heating up the stove with your first load but also your house - furniture etc. retain heat and when cold require to be heated up too...

Have fun and welcome to this forum where you will learn a lot more about wood and wood burning than you ever imagined possible. :coolsmile:

 

[vvvv]

jam cram the stove with wood & start fire from the front with primary open. once u think the fire has established, close the primary air intake..............air from the secondaries will still feed the fire........flashing 2ndary tubes create a hotspot on top so that pile can burn from the top down which is more efficient

 

[FyreBug]

Hi guys, the best starting procedure is what works for you! But if you are having issues this is what I recommend. I take service calls and people wonder why I fuss with my starting procedure but it works every time.

Build a small intense fire. Fire is made of Heat, fuel & oxygen. The physics of it has not changed for the past few thousand years whether its and EPA stove or outdoor fire. If you don't believe me check this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cUb2ggtFbI

Basically you should do the same things 1) lots of bone dry kindling 2) leave the door cracked for about 20 minutes. This small roaring fire will allow your chimney to warm up & establish a draft, reduce the chance of smoke blow back and the whole appliance to reach temperature so your secondary combustion to kick in.

Then you should gradually add some small piece of wood until some coals are established until the biggest pieces should be no bigger than 6" diameter (larger pieces are harder to burn especially if the moisture content is high). Once the logs are burning close the door and you can then damper down and let the secondary burn do its thing. The whole procedure should take no more than 20 min.

Finally this is what your secondary burn will/should look like. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZsesmpd3SQ

Each stove seem to have its own distinct 'personality' and you will eventually figure out what works best for you.

 

[firefighterjake]

Glad to see im doing something right! I guess my main concern is, I can never seem to get the cold start fire to REALLY warm the stove up. I use the procedure above and the stove never seems to get HOT until I start the next burn cycle, then she blazes like crazy!

It almost seems as though once the kindlin burns off, the rest of the fire just sits there and smoulders a little (not much but a little), hardly any flames, the part of the split nearest the back remains only charred (not hot coals) and I have to fuss with it to get those back pieces to burn and keep the stove warm-hotish. I dont have much smoke, but it just doesnt seem to get hot enough until I start the next cycle. I try to let the cold start burn ride around medium on the damper but sometimes I need to bump her up to med-high. I can NEVER go on low during the cold start fire.

What could be my issue?

Is there an issue or is this just how it works?

Too much wood?

Not enough wood?

Closing the draft too soon or not soon enough?

Thanks again guys, I just wanna get this down right before the real burning season kicks in!

As Pen said the first load may or may not win you the Gold Medal . . . for me usually the re-load . . . after the kindling has burned down and left a nice bed of coals is when I see the most heat . . . don't get me wrong . . . I get heat and a decent burn from the starter load . . . but the real deal happens on the reloads when I have a nice charge of well seasoned wood.