OK guys, school the newbie on how to burn

[firefighterjake]

I don't understand the idea of putting kindling ON TOP of the other wood. Seems like the flames from the kindling would just go up with nothing above it to catch fire. I've always put kindling on the bottom, then some small splits, and maybe a larger split or two until it gets going good. It's always worked well for me. I've only been doing this about four years now so I'm still trying to learn.

It seems counter-intuitive until you realize that it is not the actual wood that is catching on fire and burning . . . it is the combustible gases that are off-gassing from the wood when it is heated up . . .

By putting the kindling on top you heat up the wood underneath . . . gases ignite and the wood underneath chars . . . advantage to this method is that it heats up the flue quickly and easily . . . you don't have to keep adding a split here or there . . . or risk having a huge pile collapse in on itself and smother the fire.

I was a doubter for a long time . . . first few attempts were miserable failure . . . but I was determined to see why so many people liked this method of fire starting and one day it worked . . . and worked very well . . . I've been doing a slightly modified version ever since then.

That said . . . if something works for you and works well . . . there may be no reason to try something different.

 

[firefighterjake]

I've just started to build top down fires. I showed my skeptical husband person how to do them, and he is sold. It's been working really well for us, and a lot less messing around to get it started. Here's a link to a good site. http://www.woodheat.org/tips/topdownsteps.htm

We've been getting really nice burn time, and it is really hypnotic to watch the fire take off down the wood. Perhaps with less smoke, better combustion there is less creosote? Anyhow, this has been good for us and we are getting more heat earlier. We have an equinox, and it does take a while to warm up. It's still pretty warm up here, into the 20's at night, but soon that will change. It's nice to know an easier way for when it gets really cold. Last year we had almost two weeks where it routinely dipped to -30 at night. (Wasilla, AK).

Once you go top down you never go back. There is no fiddling or smoldering. You can fully load stove light it and walk away. I get secondary burn within 2 minutes of lighting kindling. So I guess there is no smoke coming out my chimney. Less than 1/4 cup of creosote after sweep. It works!!

2 minutes? I find this pretty hard to swallow . . . from a cold start to secondaries in 2 minutes . . . maybe 20 minutes or 30 minutes . . . but 2 minutes . . . are you burning with rocket fuel in the stove?

 

[scoooter]

Finally this is what your secondary burn will/should look like. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZsesmpd3SQ

Each stove seem to have its own distinct 'personality' and you will eventually figure out what works best for you.

My wife wants to know if this is an approved hearth? If so I did it all wrong

Scott

 

[pen]

Finally this is what your secondary burn will/should look like. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZsesmpd3SQ

Each stove seem to have its own distinct 'personality' and you will eventually figure out what works best for you.

My wife wants to know if this is an approved hearth? If so I did it all wrong

Scott

The hearth is fine, the piece of well pipe for a chimney stuck out the window opening is a bit shady though!

pen

 

[mrfjsf]

I don't understand the idea of putting kindling ON TOP of the other wood. Seems like the flames from the kindling would just go up with nothing above it to catch fire. I've always put kindling on the bottom, then some small splits, and maybe a larger split or two until it gets going good. It's always worked well for me. I've only been doing this about four years now so I'm still trying to learn.

It seems counter-intuitive until you realize that it is not the actual wood that is catching on fire and burning . . . it is the combustible gases that are off-gassing from the wood when it is heated up . . .

By putting the kindling on top you heat up the wood underneath . . . gases ignite and the wood underneath chars . . . advantage to this method is that it heats up the flue quickly and easily . . . you don't have to keep adding a split here or there . . . or risk having a huge pile collapse in on itself and smother the fire.

I was a doubter for a long time . . . first few attempts were miserable failure . . . but I was determined to see why so many people liked this method of fire starting and one day it worked . . . and worked very well . . . I've been doing a slightly modified version ever since then.

That said . . . if something works for you and works well . . . there may be no reason to try something different.

Kenster, try the top down a few times, you will be hooked I promise. It is super easy, even for a beginner like myself. Doesn't create plumes of smoke either which is a plus!

 

[mrfjsf]

So I have the cold start fire down. I got it fired up around 7:45 tonight, two small splits on the bottom with some med and small size kindling on top, then a top down start. It burned down to coals MUCH better than before when I packed her full on a cold start. Once I got down to a med size coal bed, I raked it all to the front and tossed on a larger pine split and two medium cherry splits. Turned it up to high for about 7 mins. (I think this was too short) then backed it off to medium high for 3-5 mins, then to med-low for another 5, then all the way closed. My experience this evening told me I backed it down too quickly. I got decent secondaries for about 10 mins on low but it seemed to start smouldering after that so I had to jack it up to medium for about 10-15 mins to get the wood good and hot again which tells me I was too quick to back the air off, am I right?

After I got the wood hot again, I put the air to just above full close and let it ride there for a little while but before I knew it, it looked like most of my wood was burning up too quickly. So its riding on low as we speak and still putting out nice heat, however, no secondaries. I feel like I butchered this burn pretty bad. Also, how packed should the stove be? From the little experience I have here, it seems like this stove burns better when its packed (i.e two large and two medium splits. Is this too much wood? Not enough?

It may seem like im obsessing too much but I just dont want to burn through wood like its goin outta style.

In conclusion, I will be ordering a therm this weekend so I can have a better idea of what temps I should be at and when. Im going for the Condar Inferno, is that a good choice?

Anyone care to comment on my burn?

 

[pen]

sounds good other than you don't need to close it down all the way. Mine is most generally a tiny bit open.

You'll get there, your processes are empirical which is perfect.

pen

 

[mrfjsf]

Thanks Pen, ill keep doing what I do and make minor adjustments here and there. So, just for reference, the load I threw in tonight (mentioned above) should be down to large coals in 2 hrs? That is where im at now as we speak. Should I have put more wood in to get better secondaries so I could have adjusted my air down a little quicker?

 

[pen]

Do whatever it takes to keep your house comfortable right now. Since you probably aren't burning 24/7 at the moment, it's just guess and check for everyone. This time of year is the toughest to burn in whether you are experienced or not. It's very easy to overheat the house now (just plain waste wood) or have solar gain / a warm day make you think you did something better than you really did.

For now, just keep playing smartly and keep comfortable while keeping the stove at reasonable temps.

pen

 

[mrfjsf]

Will do, no im not even close to burning 24/7 right now. I may not be at all this year because of my schedule. For now, ill just keep on keeping on and see how she turns out. On a lighter note, the whole house is in the mid 70's right now with no help from the oil burner so I guess im doing something right!

 

[firefighterjake]

So I have the cold start fire down. I got it fired up around 7:45 tonight, two small splits on the bottom with some med and small size kindling on top, then a top down start. It burned down to coals MUCH better than before when I packed her full on a cold start. Once I got down to a med size coal bed, I raked it all to the front and tossed on a larger pine split and two medium cherry splits. Turned it up to high for about 7 mins. (I think this was too short) then backed it off to medium high for 3-5 mins, then to med-low for another 5, then all the way closed. My experience this evening told me I backed it down too quickly. I got decent secondaries for about 10 mins on low but it seemed to start smouldering after that so I had to jack it up to medium for about 10-15 mins to get the wood good and hot again which tells me I was too quick to back the air off, am I right?

After I got the wood hot again, I put the air to just above full close and let it ride there for a little while but before I knew it, it looked like most of my wood was burning up too quickly. So its riding on low as we speak and still putting out nice heat, however, no secondaries. I feel like I butchered this burn pretty bad. Also, how packed should the stove be? From the little experience I have here, it seems like this stove burns better when its packed (i.e two large and two medium splits. Is this too much wood? Not enough?

It may seem like im obsessing too much but I just dont want to burn through wood like its goin outta style.

In conclusion, I will be ordering a therm this weekend so I can have a better idea of what temps I should be at and when. Im going for the Condar Inferno, is that a good choice?

Anyone care to comment on my burn?

Sounds like you're learning fast . . . faster than I did at least when trying to do my first few top down fires which were failures.

I think when you get a thermometer this may help you . . . I know I use my thermometers a lot in knowing when to turn down the air so that the secondary will do well and be sustained.

I also have found, like you, that it seems as though I get better burns (or at least get more secondary action) with a fuller firebox . . . however, as Brother Bart has pointed out in the past . . . sometimes you don't necessarily need to have a raging inferno in your firebox (i.e. this time of year) . . . and you can still burn cleanly and relatively efficiently even without the secondary combustion.

Keep experimenting . . . and bear in mind that things will change even more when you start heating 24/7 . . . but for now the fact that you're warm and the oil furnace hasn't kicked on is most definitely a good thing.

 

[albertj03]

I'm new to my PE Super 27 (not new to wood burning though) this year and it has taken some adjusting on my part to get the hang of this stove. The best tool I've found for getting the stove going is my thermometers on the stove pipe and on the stove top. I start with some 2x4 scraps and maybe a couple small cut offs to get the fire going. Once that is going really good I'll add 4 or 5 splits and watch the stove pipe temp, as soon as it starts getting between 400 - 500 degrees I start backing down the primary more and more as the stove pipe temp rises. Eventually the pipe temp will back off and the stove top will be higher. When the stove top gets around 500 degrees is when I can get it down to low and then end up just after the L. The stove likes to cruise around 600 - 650 and sometimes up to 700+. Now that I've got it down to a science it doesn't take that long. Sounds like your process in your initial post takes a long time. I found at first I wasn't using enough kindling so I started adding more which helped to get the stove temp up faster.

 

[mrfjsf]

I'm new to my PE Super 27 (not new to wood burning though) this year and it has taken some adjusting on my part to get the hang of this stove. The best tool I've found for getting the stove going is my thermometers on the stove pipe and on the stove top. I start with some 2x4 scraps and maybe a couple small cut offs to get the fire going. Once that is going really good I'll add 4 or 5 splits and watch the stove pipe temp, as soon as it starts getting between 400 - 500 degrees I start backing down the primary more and more as the stove pipe temp rises. Eventually the pipe temp will back off and the stove top will be higher. When the stove top gets around 500 degrees is when I can get it down to low and then end up just after the L. The stove likes to cruise around 600 - 650 and sometimes up to 700+. Now that I've got it down to a science it doesn't take that long. Sounds like your process in your initial post takes a long time. I found at first I wasn't using enough kindling so I started adding more which helped to get the stove temp up faster.

So you're saying go with basically a loaded up kindling fire to start it off, not using any splits and that will get it hot enough, quickly enough to add the big splits sooner than later. I agree, my thoughts were also that the initial cold start fire just seems to take too long to get the stove to a point where I can really get it going. It easily takes 1.5 or better to even get my cold start fire burnt down enough to even think about adding any splits and the stove just doesnt get hot with a small fire. My house is also not insulated either, which requires me to get this kitten purring as quickly as possible in order to see any real net heat gain from it.

 

[pen]

Start w/ the kindling fire w/ the door cracked, once that puppy has the stove engulfed, the chimney warmed, the stove warmed, and gets itself tamed back down to nice coals, add your large spits to your hearts content.

I usually start w/ one large split cut to smithereens (that's as small as safety allows considering the amount of booze I have drank for the particular evening) as my kindling fire.

If I don't feel like endangering precious fingers (or if I drop dead and the good lady needs to start a fire), I keep a bunch of 5 gal buckets of pre-smithereened wood on hand for those days where it's just not practical to pull the axe out.

pen

 

[albertj03]

I don't fill the stove with kindling, I probably use six to eight pieces of small 2x4 scrap with a homemade egg carton, dryer lint, wax starter (no newspaper) and let that go on the Start position for about 10 minutes. At that point it's usually burnt down about half way and raging pretty good. This is when I open the door and add some splits, usually smaller on the bottom and larger on the top and let go on "Start" until the stove pipe temp gets to 400 - 500 and start backing it down.

It takes maybe 45 minutes or so from cold start to when the secondaries are kicking at 500 - 550 stove top. My favorite secondaries are the ones that come from the back and seem flow out towards the front along the top of the baffle. When I see that I know the stove is running good and I'm all set to leave it with the air set just barely below the L.

 

[mrfjsf]

I'll try this method albertj03. Im always up for new ideas.

 

[ispinwool]

A small secondary burn on a small fire.

Hey Pen...THANKS for taking the time to post this!
Now I understand what ya'll mean by secondary burn
One quick question: your glass is beautifully clear--did you just clean it
or is it always like that? I burn nice and hot with dry wood but the window
is still foggy....any suggestions?

 

[pen]

I clean mine about once a week or so w/ paper towels and glass cleaner. If I don't mine too gets a white haze to it.

pen