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Okanagan Douglas Fir

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by IHATEPROPANE, Apr 3, 2013.

  1. StihlHead

    StihlHead Guest

    Do I read the OP right that it is $355 for a ton for DF softwood pellets in Taxachusettes? *gulp*

    In the land of hardwoods, someone is charging you more for softwood? *cough*

    Here DF and softwood pellets are about all you can get, and they go for $200-250 a ton (low ash included).

    Something don't make sense here... :oops:

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  2. mepellet

    mepellet Minister of Fire

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    So the DF at $355/ton and 8574BTU/# equals 48,304BTU/$.

    Any reports available on the mwp blend BTU content as received?

    Let's use 7500BTU/# (pretty sure this should be around 8000 but I don't have the test result handy). SIBs current price is $224/ton. You can easily get them cheaper at Hd or other places. For this purpose lets use the low BTU value AND the high price.

    At 7500BTU/# and $224/ton that equals 66,964BTU/$.

    So 48,304BTU/$ or 66,964BTU/$. I know which ones I'm going to spend my money on.
    subsailor likes this.
  3. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    Like I said, They aren't for everyone. Specially the frugal cheap skates. But if you don't have enough stove or runs balls out during the cold and can't afford a shutdown. It might be worth looking into these. If you have never spent an evening huddled near you pellet stove trying to stay warm, You just won't understand! Trust me, There are many out there that are in this boat. The math may not work in your case, But being warmer may be priceless to others.
    gbreda likes this.
  4. mepellet

    mepellet Minister of Fire

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    I guess that I'm glad I bought a stove that has more than enough horsepower and can handle ashier pellets.
  5. IHATEPROPANE

    IHATEPROPANE Minister of Fire

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    Same here with the horse power...I have two settings that I never use. However, my ash pan is on the small side :(
  6. subsailor

    subsailor Minister of Fire

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    I don't know much, but I know that on the coldest night I saw this year I had to turn the stove down when the inside temp hit 76. I was burning pellets that I paid $235/delivered. (MWP Softwood.) I'm all set.
  7. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    Cordwood.... I want Hardwoods.

    Pellets........ I want Softwoods.

    That's just the way it is. Because of the lack of Hardwoods in your area, the Softwoods are cheap and readily available. Hardwoods must be shipped in (guessing?) and that in turn, raises the cost.

    Douglas Fir makes a Fantastic pellet. As does Bettle kill, lodge poll, etc.
  8. StihlHead

    StihlHead Guest

    But... they grow conifers in Maine, yes? Also they grow more softwood in the southern US by far than they do here in the PNW. It is not that far from the Carolinas to MA, never mind Maine. The high price still seems puzzling to me.

    Also why is there the chronic misconception by people in the midwest and northeast that there are no hardwoods in the PNW? There are many hardwoods that grow here, including oaks, maples, dogwood, laurel/bay, cottonwood/poplar/aspen (yah, they are hardwoods), alder, cherry, etc., that grow all around here in the wild, as well as lots of eastern hardwood species that people grow in the burbs. That's where I get firewood like black locust from. No hardwoods are 'imported' here as firewood. Actually there is a new law that went into effect this year that no firewood can be imported into Oregon from outside the PNW unless it has been treated and inspected to reduce the potential importation of invasive species (PNW defined in the new law is: Oregon, Washington and Idaho).

    When/where I lived in the heart of logging country in central coastal Oregon, oak, madrone, maple and chinkapins are considered trash trees and left in slash piles. I used to glean those slash piles for firewood with my chainsaws. I live in logging country here as well in the Cascades. However here firewood companies pay for trash species logs and process and sell them by the cord in the city/burbs, and/or loggers sell the logs on the side by the truckload ($1200 a truck load = roughly 9 cords cut and dried) so I cannot get them up here. Hence I raid the burbs for my firewood. Its a contradiction; I live right next to the Mt Hood National forest where you would think there would be an endless supply of firewood. Log trucks roll past here day in and day out. But the real firewood supply is in the city. This week I pulled 5 cords of fir, maple and hemlock out of a 2 acre estate in a hoity toidy hood. The couple dropped native old growth trees to plant a lawn for their kids to play on. The neighbor of theirs that I talked to was not too happy about that, but to me it was 'free' wood (cost me $80 in gas to haul it up here). He was impressed that I could noddle up the 4 foot diameter fir logs as fast as I could. I am now a bona fide wood horder...
  9. mepellet

    mepellet Minister of Fire

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    Yes lots of conifers around here. I agree about the price.
  10. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    Yes we have conifers, But they aren't Douglas Fir. Douglas Fir is the cleanest fiber I have seen on this planet and it doesn't grow, but in a small region in the North West.

    Looking at the spring price deals in my area. Softwoods aren't the best deals out there. I am seeing prices of $299/ton for Oukies, Spruce Pointes and La Crete's. I didn't even ask what the DF price would be landed at my local dealer, but I'm sure its around the $335 to $355 price range.

    Just like the auto market. Not everyone will buy a Jag or Mercedes. But they do sell! This market will be similar. Prolly why the price is higher. It won't be a mass market or volume sale.
  11. Lousyweather

    Lousyweather Guest

    Now about North Idaho Fir pellets in Massachusetts for $299/ton? Has anyone used these?
  12. StihlHead

    StihlHead Guest

    Uh... as for the location of Doug fir growing, Douggie is grown worldwide (commonly planted in Europe). It grows in its native habitat all over the western North American continent, from northern BC to Mexico and east into Alberta, Montana, Colorado, Wyoming and New Mexico. The 'small region' that you refer to is larger than the eastern seaboard. Also the most plentiful softwood species in both the US and Canada is Doug fir (from US and CDN gov't reports).

    From looking online at pellet prices, you are basically being ***** for all pellets in New England, about like we are for gasoline in the west of late. You pay about 40% more in New England than we do here for pellets. With recent pellet production increases prices should be falling. Also in Europe, pellets are about 20% cheaper than here in the US, so something is fishy in the pellet pricing game. It seems that the US south may be flooding the EU market with cheap pellets to gain market share, and recouping the costs in places like New England. One thing that is driving pellet prices higher is also what is also driving paper prices higher: housing is down so saw mill scrap is down, and hence wood chip and sawdust prices are higher.
  13. Lousyweather

    Lousyweather Guest

    hm....wonder what the cost is to have those Doug Fir pellets loaded on a train, shipped across the country, and unloaded in New England (I would guess all said and done $80-$100/ton?) Any ideas? I think that cost would certainly eat into the 40% or so more the folks in New England pay. Im guessing if ythe pellets went in the other direction (east to west), you folks would likely see the result as well.
    jtakeman likes this.
  14. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    LW, You mean it cost money to get them here? I thought they just magically appeared! :p
  15. IHATEPROPANE

    IHATEPROPANE Minister of Fire

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    I think there is more in play than transportation costs. I found some old prices from when I got my stove. Jan of 2011. The prices at the pellet houses have gone up about 25% while propane and oil has stayed the same. the cost savings are quickly eroding due to the high demand.
  16. Woody1911a1

    Woody1911a1 Feeling the Heat

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    "the cost of oil has stayed the same " really ? what world are you living in ? certainly not mine .
  17. IHATEPROPANE

    IHATEPROPANE Minister of Fire

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    According to massenergy.org....
    March 31,2011 $3.67
    March 27, 2013 $3.54


    There is always fluctuations but generally it had been in the same range...3.60 to 3.70
  18. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    Maybe big oil see's the light and is just trying to compete. I still think we can save money and be warmer with pellets than oil/propane/electric IMHO. And its more eco friendly as well. I also bet that pellets are still just a twinkle in the big picture. What I go by is of the 400 employees I work with, There are far more that pour oil in their tanks than fondle pellets in their hoppers. But we are gaining ground little by little. The biggest converts are the former electric peeps. Second would be propane. I think more have switched to NG over the last few seasons than to being a pellet head. That has been the biggest reason I have seen for oil to stabilize the prices. Its not pellets that has em reeling, Its the smell of NG that has em woozzy!

    I also don't think pellet dealers are making that much more than the past. What has risen is the cost of transportation and inflation(rent, wages and other over head)! Just my 2 cents!
    Lousyweather likes this.
  19. IHATEPROPANE

    IHATEPROPANE Minister of Fire

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    I agree with the NG being the real winner....we have more NG than we know what to do with. Everyone I know went NG if they had it available. I would have too. Pellets are still a good option but the non box store prices is this neck of the woods has me wondering how long that will be the case. Once the money gets close the ease of propane and oil wins....except for the environmental people....of which I am not
  20. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    I think NG is just suckering in the crowd. Once it happens you will see the price increase. Pellets has one thing the others don't. Its a renewable fuel source. What might happen is electric being produced by solar, hydro and biomass plants taking the next leap. That would make it a renewable source and more pleasing to some. We'll have to wait and see.

    I am hooked on the warmth of biomass, Gonna be hard for me to pass on the warmth we get from it. Even if it costs more, I may still have some handy to get some of the best feeling heat I know of!
    DexterDay likes this.
  21. Lousyweather

    Lousyweather Guest

    I know you are being facecious, J, but for the rank and file....they beleive it!
  22. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    Is that a complement? ::-)

    I have been called a lot of things, But never been called facecious. Usually its "bonehead-Dumb SOB- or Jack A$$"! Or the wifeys favorite of chit for brains! :p
    mepellet and gbreda like this.
  23. iron stove

    iron stove Feeling the Heat

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    Wetn NG here, only because they built a small development across from me, and developer spent the coin to extend the main to my house. I realize cost could go up in future. BUT, saving big now, much cleaner so dont need to spend for cleaning, and I REMOVED the tank in my basement, which is a HUGE liability for leakage ( 40 years old).
  24. Lousyweather

    Lousyweather Guest

    lol- and I did a typo! meant Facetious!

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/facetious

    of course, since I am sure your wife is all-knowing (other than her poor choices in men), you probably are a "bonehead-Dumb SOB- or Jack A$$"! Or the wifeys favorite of chit for brains!
  25. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    #1 is definitely me! ::-)

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