Original type Durock..

[raybonz]

Looking at Home Depot they show multiple types of Durock including this product: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 .. No mention of Nexgen in the pic but they do offer the the 3'x5'x1/2" Nexgen product.. If this is the original stuff that would be great!

Ray

 

[begreen]

I think it's NextGen Durock. Keyword - lightweight cement and the part number - 170573.

 

[raybonz]

I think it's NextGen Durock. Keyword - lightweight cement and the part number - 170573.

BG zoom in on the product picture it does not say nexgen.. It also is only 32" instead of 36" and costs more than the 36" wide nexgen they sell... I do wonder....

Ray

 

[begreen]

Give HD a call, they maybe clearing out a stash of the original. Worth checking at least.

I know the picture doesn't agree, but that could be an old stock photo. According to USG's website, Durock NextGen is sold in widths of 32", 36" and 48".

 

[raybonz]

Give HD a call, they maybe clearing out a stash of the original. Worth checking at least.

I know the picture doesn't agree, but that could be an old stock photo. According to USG's website, Durock NextGen is sold in widths of 32", 36" and 48".

I will drive there tomorrow.. I do wonder why they would make a 32" and 36" width size... Very strange if you ask me! They also sell this one: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 which shows 36" Nexgen and it's cheaper plus larger.. Gotta wonder why...

Ray

 

[greythorn3]

whats the difference in the nextgen and the original? i got netgen from lowes in 1/2 inch was still heavy!

 

[Jags]

Ray - unless it is new old stock it is the Nexgen product. They no longer even produce the original stuff.

 

[Jags]

whats the difference in the nextgen and the original? i got netgen from lowes in 1/2 inch was still heavy!

The biggest difference noted for hearth builders will be the lack of "hearth" approval of the product. The old stuff WAS approved for hearth building - the new stuff is approved for heat shields, but not hearth.

 

[begreen]

NexGen Durock has perlite added to the cement to lighten it.

 

[turbocruiser]

Not that I am an expert at all with any of these things but I did do a bunch of basic research when I was picking my materials to include talking with technicians at CBP (for Wonderboard), Hardie (for Hardiebacker) and USG for (Durock). I'm just providing this information in the hope it helps (again I'm no hearth or heat expert).

According to USG they haven't made and haven't sold the Original Durock since somewhere around 2009 (if i remember right). Additionally, they checked their biggest distrubutors for me (which would include HD) to see if any of them out there might still have some original stock. According to USG no one has any around unless they were a small scale distributor which would have some old stock left.

They specifically told me not to use their Nextgen Durock for the hearth or for the alcove around my stove. The explanation they gave is that they have added polystyrene to the cement to lighten the load and the polystyrene starts to offgass on temps of 175 F or higher. I'm assuming from these facts and the numbers this product has on it that this is the Nextgen and not the First Gen.

After much research I decided to do Wonderboard and am happy to have made that my backerboard material. Really as far as my research revealed it was the only true option as neither the Durock nor the Hardie were rated for what I was needing. Again all this is offered only in the hope it helps; please place a much higher value on any advice the mods or others with much more experience and expertise say. Thanks.

 

[Jags]

Turbo - I think you have nailed it as well as anybody will be able to. That info mirrors what I was told from a USG engineer.

 

[begreen]

There is definitely some dis-information being passed about this product. The last I heard it was confirmed that perlite was in NexGen.

 

[firefighterjake]

I'm so confused that I don't know whether to suggest Durock NexGen . . . or not.

 

[begreen]

You definitely have company. I don't think the issue is with forum members, but with USG. The only styrofoam bead product that I know of was EasyBoard.

Clearly there is a market for a certified, non-combustible backerboard. How would we get the Hearth industry to approach USG on this subject? Would this be via the HPBA?

Also, does anyone know about Knauf/USG aquapanel outdoor? Though not designed for hearths, it appears to be a pure cement board with fiberglass mesh wrap. That might just be for Europe though.

 

[greythorn3]

well its just wonderfull i just built my hearth out of durock next gen! boy oh boy! isnt that great! not to use for hearth! and im gonna put a englander 30 nch on it?

so its going to outgas at 175f? this is just wonderful! im going to burn some scap pieces in my burn barrel today and see what happens to them

looks like cement inside them to me tho.

wonder if i sould put another layer of something else over them other then tile on my hearth.

 

[turbocruiser]

Again I am not an expert at all with hearth or heat but an I am expert at causing confusion so let me try to clarify any confusion ... I'm just sharing what the technicians at USG told me through several calls where I was essentially repeating the same questions because I basically couldn't comprehend why they were conflicting their own technical papers like the one that BeGreen posted and other things like the MSDS sheets which simply don't say anything at all about polystyrene but basically only list other than the typical things like cement, sand and shale a "proprietary mineral blend". Still technician tolds me that they do put polystyrene in there to lighten the load.

As far as the "floor protection form" I asked about that too and they told me it is suitable to use together with stoves where one only would want "ember protection" as opposed to an achieved R value but it isn't rated for real hearth or in our case alcove areas. Again the form that BeGreen posted seems to completely contradict that too. As already mentioned, USG sometimes seem pretty confused presenting the differences in Original Gen and Next Gen. Whether it is okay to use the Next Gen for all our applications I honestly still simply don't know but I'm basically satisfied that there is nothing wrong with using Wonderboard as that positively is fire rated, smoke rated, etc. Again, as I already mentioned, please place a much much higher value on any advice the mods or other more expert members offer over me. Thanks.

 

[begreen]

I think this is just a case of the head not knowing what the tale is doing in a big corporation.

OK, this the material data sheet for NextGen from CGC which is USG's Canadian subsidiary. Unless USG is selling a completely different product with the identical naming as USG NextGen Durock, the white substance that reduces it's weight is pumice. Trust me, if there was styrofoam in there, they would have to declare it. Hopefully this will end discussion and put people's mind to rest. Now get back to work on that hearth!

Canadian NextGen MSDS
http://tinyurl.com/3u2qmay

On the US website they say the mystery ingredient is " A proprietary blend of mineral based ingredients."
http://www.usg.com/rc/msds/panels/durock/durock-cement-board-msds-en-14090001.pdf

 

[turbocruiser]

OK, this the material data sheet for NextGen from CGC which is USG's Canadian subsidiary. Hopefully this will end discussion and put people's mind to rest. Unless USG is selling a completely different product with the identical naming as USG NextGen Durock, the white substance that reduces it's weight is pumice.

http://tinyurl.com/3u2qmay

I'm not arguing at all about this (did I make any mention yet that I'm not an expert, haha) but that MSDS is definitely different from the one that USG has on their own US site. Additionally I would NOT want any cellulose in my backerboard material for this application. Anyway this is the US site's MSDS. How this answers the question I have no hint!

SECTION 3 COMPOSITION, INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
MATERIAL WT%
Portland Cement <50
Fly Ash <50
Expanded Clay Aggregate <30 Or Expanded Shale
Blend of Proprietary Mineral Based Ingredients <20
Fiber Glass Scrim <5
Crystalline Silica <5

 

[begreen]

I put the link to the US data sheet in too. Less than 2% cellulose is not going to be an issue. It could cover the floor dust. If it bugs you, pour the hearth with homemade cement. There are no other cement backerboard options besides Durock or Wonderboard that I know of. Hardibacker board is <15% cellulose by comparison.

 

[turbocruiser]

I put the link to the US data sheet in too. Less than 2% cellulose is not going to be an issue. It could cover the floor dust. If it bugs you, pour the hearth with homemade cement. There are no other cement backerboard options besides Durock or Wonderboard that I know of.

Yes sir I saw that too, I'm just pointing out that these two products definitely do seem somewhat different between the CND and the US versions. I'm also just pointing out that just the confusion alone over at USG led me to the Wonderboard which I was happy to have in my install. If they put the polystyrene into their "proprietary blend" then they would not necessarily have to list that separately. Anyways, I'm really not trying to cause any confusion but just basically repeating what I was told from the folks at USG makes one's mind twist and turn! The head and the tail are definitely not on the same species here! Besides, everything I read or heard from Custom Building Products confirmed that the Wonderboard would work well which was why I went that way.

 

[begreen]

I'm not sure why the difference. Perhaps Canada has stricter reporting requiring greater detail than the US? What I am pretty sure of it that there is no styrofoam in either product. Based on that I'd be comfortable using either one.

 

[raybonz]

I can say that I just cut Durock, 2 layers worth and if there is styrofoam in there I never saw it.. It's a bear to cut and I saw nothing but concrete or other tough stuff.. This will be just fine for ember protection...

Ray

 

[greythorn3]

ok im gonna burn it and see what happens.

here i got a scrap piece of durock nextgen




and here i got my burn barrel going, its a little sprinkly out not to bad tho, the barrel has lotsa hot coals, and i just put some more wood in it too



and heres the piece on the burn barrel





Not much scientific discovery about this, more for just my amusement.

 

[PJF1313]

greythorn-


It's been about 2 hours - any changes ;-)


(I'm curious also.. Or are you gonna give it an "all-niter" test on the barrel ?!?!? )

 

[greythorn3]

well after hours of direct flames, its still togeather, i also flipped it over and the point broke off , but the fibres inside it kept it togeather.

so i smashed it on a stick, it broke apart but yet the fibers kept it in pretty much in one piece.

the weight feels the same as before.

it doesnt look anymore porus after buring.

i cant belive the fibers didnt burn.

one unusual thing i wasent expecting is, one side of the board the mesh is white, and the other side is black. wonder if its 2 different types mesh in the concrete board itself?