Outdoor Wood Boilers...Local Regs.

[keyman512us]

Hi all...
Without going into too much detail (yet) my town just joined the ever growing list of comunities that are now regulating OWB's. As a new member to the forum, and someone that is interested in the opinions of average everyday people I would like to ask your opinions on the following article:

http://www.telegram.com/apps/pbcs.d...PORTAL&WT_TOWN=Gardner&WT_CAME_FROM=MAIN_PAGE

Seeing as the controversy on these grows everyday, and is a hot button topic ...Do you think too tough? Too lean? Or just about right?

Just curious seeing as I'm from "The People's Republic of Massachusetts' (AKA 'the other left coast')"

I love the comments from readers'(at the bottom of the page)...This guy bout sums' up how I feel:

Regulate a renewable fuel source...burn more oil?...non renewable...all because someone else cannot afford a wood stove...the next move will be for a subsidy to these whining neighbors..such as nose drops..allergy pills..or install a furnace for free and let me have free wood....if I can't afford one..no one else should have one...how did this country grow on just wood and coal...????
-Bill Cutting

 

[restorer]

I will get my dig in first. There is no reason that the OWB's can not be brought into the 21st Century except the greed of the makers. A smoking dragon, flame thrower is no different than a 1956 Buick burning at 5 mpg of fuel and a quart of oil every 10 miles. You really can't think the car should be on the road? Why then let the inefficient burners be used. We would shut down any business generating the same level of pollution for Btu's gained, why should we let the homeowner get an exemption?

 

[iceman]

Hi all...
Without going into too much detail (yet) my town just joined the ever growing list of comunities that are now regulating OWB's. As a new member to the forum, and someone that is interested in the opinions of average everyday people I would like to ask your opinions on the following article:

http://www.telegram.com/apps/pbcs.d...PORTAL&WT_TOWN=Gardner&WT_CAME_FROM=MAIN_PAGE

Seeing as the controversy on these grows everyday, and is a hot button topic ...Do you think too tough? Too lean? Or just about right?

Just curious seeing as I'm from "The People's Republic of Massachusetts' (AKA 'the other left coast')"

I love the comments from readers'(at the bottom of the page)...This guy bout sums' up how I feel:

Regulate a renewable fuel source...burn more oil?...non renewable...all because someone else cannot afford a wood stove...the next move will be for a subsidy to these whining neighbors..such as nose drops..allergy pills..or install a furnace for free and let me have free wood....if I can't afford one..no one else should have one...how did this country grow on just wood and coal...????
-Bill Cutting

they just need to be regulated with restrictions... like woodstoves now and then let them burn.. burn they should be strictly for wood burning not garbage burning as well

 

[Gunner]

I wouldn't mind living next to these guys :roll:

 

[Eric Johnson]

All that smoke represents lost potential heat.

 

[MALogger]

I read an article a couple of weeks back but can't remember where. 10 of the top manufacturers of OWB have joined a voluntary group to work with the EPA on these issues. It also said that cleaner OWB would be available this year. Hopefully they will come out with a retrofit kit for people who already have them but it didn't say that in the article.

Craig

 

[babalu87]

Hopefully they will come out with a retrofit kit for people who already have them but it didn't say that in the article.

Craig

Hopefully, for the people that bought those things only to find out what issues there are in operation of them there will be a mandatory kit or something like a buy-back program/retrofit deal. It would be even better if the buyer did not have to buy said retrofit devices.
Like I have said before I cannot believe that the EPA has let this issue go on as long as it has. I bet it has ruined some relationships between neighbors everywhere they are.
Naturally the neighbor has an issue with being able to smoke sausage on his clothesline and the poor sod that bought the smoke breathing dragon ( who just shelled out in the neighborhood of $4000) is going to try and defend his appliance that is causing all the aggravation.

 

[begreen]

Improving the combustion chamber and a taller stack will help.
Here's one user's mods to his OWB and the results:
http://www.woodheat.org/technology/outbobpen2.htm

For more user perspective:
http://www.woodheat.org/technology/outboiler.htm

 

[elkimmeg]

central Boilers and the Epa set the guide liner for regulations that will not come into being till some time in 2008, As it stands only central boilers has a proto type, that can pass the new
regulations. As of now there is no plans for retro fits to clean up existing OWB
Our Town has all but banned them. Right now the State board of health is considering its own regulations limiting OWB to very remote areas to large tract land owners/

The only states that have not passed or are not looking into some limiting regulations are our sun belt states

Another part of the regs will that the epa approved boilers must burn seasoned wood at a moisture content not exceeding 20% No more green logs.
How many have 12 cords of seasoned wood already cut stacked and split one season ahead. That will put a sever damper in sales.

There was a market and place for these OBW's but the industry head in the sand approach may have killed the market,
It should not have made the cover of Sunday's New York Times. or feature stories in the Boston Globe.

 

[reaperman]

In addition to bringing these boilers more efficient, the companies who make these boilers should start treating the steel used in the water jackets. I dont know of anyone who has had one for more than 5 years without having to weld up all of the leaks that tend to spring up. For the price of these units, new, they should never leak.

 

[Andre B.]

In addition to bringing these boilers more efficient, the companies who make these boilers should start treating the steel used in the water jackets. I dont know of anyone who has had one for more than 5 years without having to weld up all of the leaks that tend to spring up. For the price of these units, new, they should never leak.

It is more the chemistry of the water then of the steel, not may users of these things bother to test and correct on a regular basis.

 

[begreen]

Personally, if I was considering one of these, I would buy a good indoor unit like the Greenwood, add a decent stack and build a small metal shed around it. The cost would be about the same, but the quality and performance would be much better.

 

[rudysmallfry]

My only beef with these wood boilers is the fact that they are not regulated and therefore do not encourage clean burning. Wood burning is wood burning, whether it be a fireplace, wood stove or wood boiler. It makes no sense to me that some are EPA regulated while others are not. As a person with respiratory problems, I cannot be around smoke, yet I have no problem coexisting with my own wood stove. If I lived in close proximity to one of the smoke spilling monsters, I would have to move. Everyone has the right to clean air, and I personally feel like I have a responsiblity to burn my wood as cleanly as possible. I hope steps are taken to get these things burning more cleanly. The one year wood rule would go a long way, but then again, how can they enforce that, and these days, what town is going the spend money on enforcing it?

 

[stoveguy2esw]

My only beef with these wood boilers is the fact that they are not regulated and therefore do not encourage clean burning. Wood burning is wood burning, whether it be a fireplace, wood stove or wood boiler. It makes no sense to me that some are EPA regulated while others are not. As a person with respiratory problems, I cannot be around smoke, yet I have no problem coexisting with my own wood stove. If I lived in close proximity to one of the smoke spilling monsters, I would have to move. Everyone has the right to clean air, and I personally feel like I have a responsiblity to burn my wood as cleanly as possible. I hope steps are taken to get these things burning more cleanly. The one year wood rule would go a long way, but then again, how can they enforce that, and these days, what town is going the spend money on enforcing it?

rudy's right , i think they are an abomination, they should be regulated as are interior wood burning appliances, they throw more particulate amtter in the air athn anything ive seen, i drove past one up in Pa once and the smoke coming across I84 was so thick you couldnt see through it , and the uit was probably every bit of 250 yards off the road, had a little stub chimney sticking out about a foot or so, , was a serious mess. i'd shoot my neighbor if he put one of those cloud makers in

 

[begreen]

Locally we regulate not just OWBs, but all smokers by the density of the smoke coming out of the chimney. If it's opaque, you can be busted and fined. Doesn't matter if it's an old smoke dragon or a brand new EPA special. If you are burning dirty, you can be fined.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Locally we regulate not just OWBs, but all smokers by the density of the smoke coming out of the chimney. If it's opaque, you can be busted and fined. Doesn't matter if it's an old smoke dragon or a brand new EPA special. If you are burning dirty, you can be fined.

if thats the case i guess OWB's arent the norm in your area. i know they could be made cleaner, they should be made cleaner, if they end up being made cleaner i'd probably quit bashing them , but until they do....

 

[keyman512us]

Nice replies...
Would you consider this smoke excessive or a nuisance? (Fresh loading within 3 minutes, 5min duration, 3 hour cycle)???
Smoke opacity prior to emission controls being installed...

 

[rudysmallfry]

I'd say nuisance, but thanks for illustring the problem with fining for the presence of smoke. Other than in optimal draft conditions and perfect, any newly loaded fire is going to through a litte smoke. I'd bet that 10 minutes after that picture was taken, it wasn't putting out any smoke. I lit myself a smoker this morning, but once it was going, you wouldn't know it was on from outside. There'd have to be some contingency such as "opaque smoke for an excessive time" to allow for a smoke fine.

 

[TMonter]

There are some OWB's that do make sense, but you have to really look into what you are buying. Central just doesn't have the right design for a high efficiency unit.

About the only OWB I'd consider is one of these:

http://www.dectra.net/garn/index.html