outside air in a central fireplace?

[TWilk117]

Hello, I have a centrally located fireplace in my house. The first year I tried heating with it, but the house is too drafty and made the boiler run harder. Than I installed a stove that is too small in front of the fireplace and vent out into it.
Anyways, I’m in the market to get something different. Weather I go freestanding, insert, or something that burns pellets, I feel like an outside air kit would improve my situation.
That being said is it possible to get OAK on a centrally located stove? Air from the leaky basement? Has anyone else done this? There is a ash clean out door that runs down to the basement.
I’ve seriously been considering a pellet stove on an outside wall for this very reason, along with thermostatically controlled heat and less loading or fussing. I know this is the wrong forum for pellets but I’d still like to have a wood burner of some sort using the central chimney.
Thank you.

 

[clux]

I guess I'm confused as to how cutting another hole to let outside air in an already drafty house is going to improve the situation?

 

[begreen]

The greatest and quickest return on investment, in this case, is probably stopping the home's leakage (drafts) by sealing the leaks aggressively. This is an investment that pays off year-round. We did this with our old farmhouse and the results have been very positive. The next step then would be to increase the stove (insert) size to more closely match the heat loss rate of the house.

Would it be possible to duct outside air to the stove across the basement ceiling to the nearest outside wall? How far is the stove located from the side walls?

 

[TWilk117]

@clux There would be a pipe from the stove through the outside wall and sealed around it. That way the fire is being fed directly from the outside, rather than pulling air from my living room and leaky windows and doors.

 

[TWilk117]

The greatest and quickest return on investment, in this case, is probably stopping the home's leakage (drafts) by sealing the leaks aggressively. This is an investment that pays off year-round. We did this with our old farmhouse and the results have been very positive. The next step then would be to increase the stove (insert) size to more closely match the heat loss rate of the house.

Would it be possible to duct outside air to the stove across the basement ceiling to the nearest outside wall? How far is the stove located from the side walls?

New windows and doors are hopefully in my near future.
Current stove is an old one. No OAK.
Along the basement ceiling may be possible and is a good idea but it would have to run at least 25’ because of obstructions in the other directions.

 

[clux]

There would be a pipe from the stove through the outside wall and sealed around it. That way the fire is being fed directly from the outside, rather than pulling air from my living room and leaky windows and doors.

If your windows leak, it's not the stove that's pulling air.
Even the most modern homes have about 35% air change rate. That's enough fresh air on even a modest 1000 sf home to fire a woodstove without any help from another outside air source. A clothes dryer can use 10x the amount of air a woodstove does.
Older drafty homes can have a 2 or 3 air change rate. Putting another hole in them just increases air leakage, there's absolutely no benefit.

 

[begreen]

Yes, I would seal first. For an OAK 25' is not too bad if the run can be straight, or close to it with an Increase the air duct size to 4 or 5" to compensate for the distance. Pulling air from a ventilated crawlspace is ok but not from a basement.

 

[begreen]

If your windows leak, it's not the stove that's pulling air.
Even the most modern homes have about 35% air change rate. That's enough fresh air on even a modest 1000 sf home to fire a woodstove without any help from another outside air source. A clothes dryer can use 10x the amount of air a woodstove does.
Older drafty homes can have a 2 or 3 air change rate. Putting another hole in them just increases air leakage, there's absolutely no benefit.

Yes, our 96 yr old farmhouse was that way. I spent the first 2 yrs living in it sealing leaks. This helped, but there were large problems that had to wait. Finally, in 2006 I bit the bullet and addressed the major issues that needed reconstruction. The difference is really notable. The house is much easier to heat and the floors are warmer. Our stove does not have an OAK.

 

[TWilk117]

Yes, I would seal first. For an OAK 25' is not too bad if the run can be straight, or close to it with an Increase the air duct size to 4 or 5" to compensate for the distance. Pulling air from a ventilated crawlspace is ok but not from a basement.

Thank you Begreen, you are always so helpful.

 

[TWilk117]

If your windows leak, it's not the stove that's pulling air.
Even the most modern homes have about 35% air change rate. That's enough fresh air on even a modest 1000 sf home to fire a woodstove without any help from another outside air source. A clothes dryer can use 10x the amount of air a woodstove does.
Older drafty homes can have a 2 or 3 air change rate. Putting another hole in them just increases air leakage, there's absolutely no benefit.

I appreciate your reply. I don’t understand how pulling air from inside the house could be any better than from directly outside. Isn’t that what may cause back puffing smoke into the house?
And or dirty burns?

 

[clux]

I appreciate your reply. I don’t understand how pulling air from inside the house could be any better than from directly outside. Isn’t that what may cause back puffing smoke into the house?
And or dirty burns?

Because the cold air is already leaking into your house regardless of where the stove is pulling air, and the OAK just becomes an additional air leak. The only reason to try an OAK is if you're having low draft issues IMO.

 

[bholler]

If your windows leak, it's not the stove that's pulling air.
Even the most modern homes have about 35% air change rate. That's enough fresh air on even a modest 1000 sf home to fire a woodstove without any help from another outside air source. A clothes dryer can use 10x the amount of air a woodstove does.
Older drafty homes can have a 2 or 3 air change rate. Putting another hole in them just increases air leakage, there's absolutely no benefit.

Pulling air from outside absolutely will not make the home more drafty as long as it's done well. But in this case right now I don't see that there would be much benefit.

That being said why not do it now so you don't have to later after weather sealing

 

[bholler]

Because the cold air is already leaking into your house regardless of where the stove is pulling air, and the OAK just becomes an additional air leak. The only reason to try an OAK is if you're having low draft issues IMO.

How will it become an additional air leak? I have actually seen the need in some very leaky homes due to leaks in upper levels causing a chimney effect and negative pressure near the stove

 

[clux]

Pulling air from outside absolutely will not make the home more drafty as long as it's done well. But in this case right now I don't see that there would be much benifit.

That being said why not do it now so you don't have to later after weather sealing

Depending on how it's done cutting an additional hole through the side of your house can certainly make it more drafty. When the stove isn't burning it becomes an additional air leak, and at best isn't going to make it less drafty.

 

[clux]

How will it become an additional air leak? I have actually seen the need in some very leaky homes due to leaks in upper levels causing a chimney effect and negative pressure near the stove

And the best heating solution to that would be fixing the leaks, right?

 

[TWilk117]

Pulling air from outside absolutely will not make the home more drafty as long as it's done well. But in this case right now I don't see that there would be much benifit.

That being said why not do it now so you don't have to later after weather sealing

Thanks bholler. I would do it now, also might pull the trigger on a Harman. I’m waiting for an inheritance from my grandma. No idea really when I get it or exactly how much it will be.

 

[TWilk117]

The current stove works better than the fire place did.

 

[bholler]

Depending on how it's done cutting an additional hole through the side of your house can certainly make it more drafty. When the stove isn't burning it becomes an additional air leak, and at best isn't going to make it less drafty.

Well yes if someone just hacks a hole in the side of the house it will make it worse. But it doesn't take much effort to seal it properly. And no it won't make much difference now but why not do it right now and not have to redo it later

 

[TWilk117]

Well yes if someone just hacks a hole in the side of the house it will make it worse. But it doesn't take much effort to seal it properly. And no it won't make much difference now but why not do it right now and not have to redo it later

I don’t have the money yet. I’ve been out of work for months with a hernia.
Thou house is drafty but isn’t “that” drafty. Built in 1950. South Jersey.

 

[bholler]

And the best heating solution to that would be fixing the leaks, right?

Absolutely at which point they will need an oak.

 

[clux]

Well yes if someone just hacks a hole in the side of the house it will make it worse. But it doesn't take much effort to seal it properly. And no it won't make much difference now but why not do it right now and not have to redo it later

Why not spend the money on fixing air leaks (which are the real problem) instead?

It's thermodynamically impossible to make a space warmer by bringing more cold air into it.

 

[clux]

Absolutely at which point they will need an oak.

If you get your house so tight that you need an OAK for draft, that's a really big win from an HVAC perspective IMO.
But at this point, it sounds like there's better places for him to spend his money.

 

[bholler]

To me you have to start sealing up somewhere. If they are putting a new stove in that can accommodate fresh air why not start there?

 

[clux]

To me you have to start sealing up somewhere. If they are putting a new stove in that can accommodate fresh air why not start there?

Because the price of a new stove will buy a lot of caulk, insulation, weather stripping, and even windows, and it sounds like air leaks are the root cause of his problems. That will have immediate benefits and to me is the best place to start.

 

[bholler]

Because the price of a new stove will buy a lot of caulk, insulation, weather stripping, and even windows, and it sounds like air leaks are the root cause of his problems. That will have immediate benefits and to me is the best place to start.

I thought we were talking about fresh air or not fresh air. If we are talking new stove or not as long as what they have works is safe and meets their needs I would agree with you.