outside air in a central fireplace?

[clux]

I thought we were talking about fresh air or not fresh air. If we are talking new stove or not as long as what they have works is safe and meets their needs I would agree with you.

I'm questioning why there is a need for additional fresh air until the leaks are fixed.
That's a bridge to cross when you come to it, not a place to start to my thinking.

 

[bholler]

I'm questioning why there is a need for additional fresh air until the leaks are fixed.
That's a bridge to cross when you come to it, not a place to start to my thinking.

But you come to that bridge when you install the new stove.

 

[bholler]

To the op. If you are installing a new stove that can accommodate fresh air and it can be done reasonably cheap and easy go for it. But you absolutely don't need to at this point

 

[clux]

But you come to that bridge when you install the new stove.

You just said we weren't talking about installing a new stove.

It defies logic to suggest that more fresh air is the solution to too much fresh air.

 

[bholler]

You just said we weren't talking about installing a new stove.

It defies logic to suggest that more fresh air is the solution to too much fresh air.

Ok nevermind this is pointless

 

[clux]

Ok nevermind this is pointless

Exactly.

 

[TWilk117]

At this moment I’m leaning toward a new stove on an outside wall, and leaving the old stove in front of fireplace until I decide what to there. I might want to just make that back into a wood burning fireplace.

 

[bholler]

At this moment I’m leaning toward a new stove on an outside wall, and leaving the old stove in front of fireplace until I decide what to there. I might want to just make that back into a wood burning fireplace.

And if you are doing it on an outside wall you might as well run fresh air now and be done with the install.

 

[TWilk117]

You just said we weren't talking about installing a new stove.

It defies logic to suggest that more fresh air is the solution to too much fresh air.

IMO it doesn’t defy logic. A stove pulling air from outside would eliminate a lot of the problem of outside air sneaking into the house.

 

[bholler]

IMO it doesn’t defy logic. A stove pulling air from outside would eliminate a lot of the problem of outside air sneaking into the house.

Well yes and no. The small amount of air the stove uses won't make any difference if you have a fast air exchange rate.

But I absolutely don't see any issue with running fresh air at the time of install knowing you are planning on reducing air infiltration.

 

[TWilk117]

And if you are doing it on an outside wall you might as well run fresh air now and be done with the install.

I will. Thanks for your input. Much appreciated.

 

[clux]

IMO it doesn’t defy logic. A stove pulling air from outside would eliminate a lot of the problem of outside air sneaking into the house.

Outside air doesn't sneak into a house.
It enters through leaks.
The solution is to fix the leaks, not give it another avenue to enter the house.

 

[TWilk117]

Outside air doesn't sneak into a house.
It enters through leaks.
The solution is to fix the leaks, not give it another avenue to enter the house.

Does a stove sucking air to fuel fire not increase the amount of air entering the house? Wasn’t a problem when I was using the boiler in the basement.

 

[clux]

Does a stove sucking air to fuel fire not increase the amount of air entering the house? Wasn’t a problem when I was using the boiler in the basement.

If the house has large leaks the air is entering and exiting the house regardless.

If the issue is air leaks, spend your money on fixing the air leaks first.

 

[TWilk117]

If the house has large leaks the air is entering and exiting the house regardless.

If the issue is air leaks, spend your money on fixing the air leaks first.

I don’t disagree with you. The way things are going right now, I want to get on the list for something new ASAP. If I ordered one today from a reputable dealer today I don’t think I would be seeing it until February or March.

 

[Corey]

You originally mention trying to heat with a 'fireplace' - so that is definitely a loosing proposition. Then you mention heating with 'too small' a stove 'vented into' the fireplace (no insulated flue liner, I suppose?). So that would be marginal as well, and nearly as bad as the fireplace at worst.

The efficiency difference with an OAK is going to be minimal at best. Yes, you are bringing in outside air, but that outside air is cold, so the firebox will be a tiny bit colder as well. If you burn 'warm' indoor air, yes you are using some of your heated air, but the firebox is also a tiny bit hotter,too. OAK is mainly for very 'tight' houses where a stove might struggle to get enough air.

Sounds like in your case, the 'right size' stove, burning dry wood, or pellets and operated in an efficient manner, with a fully lined/insulated flue would get you a long way toward your goal of efficient wood heat. Then, if you need to squeeze 1% more heat out of the set-up, you could consider an OAK.

 

[TWilk117]

You originally mention trying to heat with a 'fireplace' - so that is definitely a loosing proposition. Then you mention heating with 'too small' a stove 'vented into' the fireplace (no insulated flue liner, I suppose?). So that would be marginal as well, and nearly as bad as the fireplace at worst.

The efficiency difference with an OAK is going to be minimal at best. Yes, you are bringing in outside air, but that outside air is cold, so the firebox will be a tiny bit colder as well. If you burn 'warm' indoor air, yes you are using some of your heated air, but the firebox is also a tiny bit hotter,too. OAK is mainly for very 'tight' houses where a stove might struggle to get enough air.

Sounds like in your case, the 'right size' stove, burning dry wood, or pellets and operated in an efficient manner, with a fully lined/insulated flue would get you a long way toward your goal of efficient wood heat. Then, if you need to squeeze 1% more heat out of the set-up, you could consider an OAK.

I have an insulated chimney liner.
My original question was in regards to central fireplaces and how you get them outside air. I know my dads gas furnace gets outside air down the chimney pipes outer layer.
I think most pellet stoves run best with outside air, so I was curious about how does a pellet insert get outside air? As well as modern wood stoves; don’t they run better with an OAK? Maybe I’m wrong. That’s why I’m asking. My first stove was way too small. I already had it before I got this house and was itching to fire it up. It was nice but didn’t help much. Sold it. Got a stove at least twice as big, but still not big enough. So I’m in the market for something new.

 

[clux]

I have an insulated chimney liner.
My original question was in regards to central fireplaces and how you get them outside air. I know my dads gas furnace gets outside air down the chimney pipes outer layer.
I think most pellet stoves run best with outside air, so I was curious about how does a pellet insert get outside air? As well as modern wood stoves; don’t they run better with an OAK? Maybe I’m wrong. That’s why I’m asking. My first stove was way too small. I already had it before I got this house and was itching to fire it up. It was nice but didn’t help much. Sold it. Got a stove at least twice as big, but still not big enough. So I’m in the market for something new.

I run a wood stove in one end of the house and a pellet stove in the other. All new doors, windows, exterior insulation, tyvek, and new siding 7 years ago. I'm fairly fanatical about air leaks, hunt them down with a IR thermometer when it's cold. I can run the clothes dryer and 2 bathroom exhaust fans along with the stoves without affecting draft on my 11' stack without an OAK on either stove.

I would love to get my house so tight that I need an OAK, but I doubt it will ever happen.

I do live in a fairly windy environment, which probably impacts my experience, but other than code compliance I'm a OAK skeptic.

 

[TWilk117]

I run a wood stove in one end of the house and a pellet stove in the other. All new doors, windows, exterior insulation, tyvek, and new siding 7 years ago. I'm fairly fanatical about air leaks, hunt them down with a IR thermometer when it's cold. I can run the clothes dryer and 2 bathroom exhaust fans along with the stoves without affecting draft on my 11' stack without an OAK on either stove.

I would love to get my house so tight that I need an OAK, but I doubt it will ever happen.

Interesting. If you don’t mind me asking, what kind of stoves you’re running? I would like to have the option to burn wood and also pellets to supplement each other. My house is only about 1150 sqft. I’m sick and tired of waking up to mess with the wood stove and waking up coming home to a cold house, getting wood that isn’t seasoned or too big and long.

 

[EbS-P]

I have Two story central chimney with a stove and an insert. I don’t think a oak would be anywhere near the top of my list. You can work really hard and only improve leakage rates by 15-20%. There must be some obvious holes. (Like a sewer line into the crawl space that no one bothered to plug). Seal those. Chances are 60$ in foam and caulk will get all the big leaks and a few house with of work. Door weatherstripping. Do that. Any electric and plumbing penetrations, seal those. Attic hatch you know what to do. I went at round with a tube a caulk and sealed all my j boxes (and recessed cans and fans) in the ceiling from the room. Why, because it was 130 F in the attic.

now you have an insulated liner you can seal around the masonry chimney.

Some have antidotal data that an OAK reduced the heat output of their pellet stove. If you have draft problems or it’s an easy run. That’s when I would install an OAK.

 

[TWilk117]

On a side note. I read a thread on here yesterday called ‘ what’s the ONE thing you would do differently?’ Or something like that. That was very interesting and great intuitive information. The wheels have been turning in my head about this for a long time. What is the best option?
I love being a wood burner, but sometimes it’s a pain in the neck. I just had hernia surgery and my back is in rough shape. Goes out all the time.

 

[clux]

Interesting. If you don’t mind me asking, what kind of stoves you’re running? I would like to have the option to burn wood and also pellets to supplement each other.

The pellet stove is a Lopi Leyden. It's the only pellet stove I've ever been around so I don't have any frame of reference to compare it to, but I'm satisfied with it.
The wood stove is the brand everybody loves to hate, a Vogelzang 2020. THere's a few things I don't like about it like the ash drawer design and the door hinges suck, but as far as performance I've got no complaints. You get what you pay for and I'm totally satisfied in light of the price.

My house is only about 1150 sqft. I’m sick and tired of waking up to mess with the wood stove and waking up coming home to a cold house, getting wood that isn’t seasoned or too big and long.

And I can see in a small house that size, if you get it tight, there could be a need for an OAK. Small houses can have draft issues if they are tight because the air change cubic footage should be small.

 

[TWilk117]

I have Two story central chimney with a stove and an insert. I don’t think a oak would be anywhere near the top of my list. You can work really hard and only improve leakage rates by 15-20%. There must be some obvious holes. (Like a sewer line into the crawl space that no one bothered to plug). Seal those. Chances are 60$ in foam and caulk will get all the big leaks and a few house with of work. Door weatherstripping. Do that. Any electric and plumbing penetrations, seal those. Attic hatch you know what to do. I went at round with a tube a caulk and sealed all my j boxes (and recessed cans and fans) in the ceiling from the room. Why, because it was 130 F in the attic.

now you have an insulated liner you can seal around the masonry chimney.

Some have antidotal data that an OAK reduced the heat output of their pellet stove. If you have draft problems or it’s an easy run. That’s when I would install an OAK.

I have a door upstairs that’s terrible, probably a few windows. My biggest problem in the basement I think is the bilco door.

 

[TWilk117]

The pellet stove is a Lopi Leyden. It's the only pellet stove I've ever been around so I don't have any frame of reference to compare it to, but I'm satisfied with it.
The wood stove is the brand everybody loves to hate, a Vogelzang 2020. THere's a few things I don't like about it like the ash drawer design and the door hinges suck, but as far as performance I've got no complaints. You get what you pay for and I'm totally satisfied in light of the price.

And I can see in a small house that size, if you get it tight, there could be a need for an OAK. Small houses can have draft issues if they are tight because the air change cubic footage should be small.

No hate here. What ever works!

 

[TWilk117]

The pellet stove is a Lopi Leyden. It's the only pellet stove I've ever been around so I don't have any frame of reference to compare it to, but I'm satisfied with it.
The wood stove is the brand everybody loves to hate, a Vogelzang 2020. THere's a few things I don't like about it like the ash drawer design and the door hinges suck, but as far as performance I've got no complaints. You get what you pay for and I'm totally satisfied in light of the price.

And I can see in a small house that size, if you get it tight, there could be a need for an OAK. Small houses can have draft issues if they are tight because the air change cubic footage should be small.

I’m running an 80’s replica of a Jotul 602, the Upland 17. Was forged one town over from me.