Pacific Energy Spectrum installation.

[whotheguy]

New member here and this is my first post to all you experts.

I recently picked up a Pacific Energy Spectrum stove and hoping to install it soon in my garage. The model I got shows it being factory tested in 1986. The stove looks 90% new. The enamel is all there, the brass/gold looking door frame looks fantastic, as does the rest of it including the door glass which is very clear. I got it cheap, I think, paid $300 for it plus it came with about 10 feet of straight pipe. Anyhow, here's my question, I am wanting to vent it out a window I have in the garage versus cutting holes in the roof. My installation need would require me to mount the vent pipe on the stove, run it vertically for about 3 feet, then a 45 degree bend, then straight pipe for about 7 feet, another 45 degree bend, and finally enough pipe to clear the roof line. Is there anything I need to know about this install? I'm wanting to clear the roof line to avoid soot deposit on the side of the house and eve if possible.

Thank you for your time.

And a big Merry Christmas to all

Robert

 

[John_M]

Robert, Based on your description of the proposed installation it seems to violate a number of fire safety codes. I would not allow such an installation in my garage-ever. I would respectfully suggest you visit the Pacific Energy web site, scroll to the Spectrum stove, and read the installation instructions. These instructions must be followed for reasons of fire safety and to pass Codes Inspections. Don't mess with fire. The fire will always win and humans will almost always lose-big time.

Best Wishes,

John_M

 

[whotheguy]

Robert, Based on your description of the proposed installation it seems to violate a number of fire safety codes. I would not allow such an installation in my garage-ever. I would respectfully suggest you visit the Pacific Energy web site, scroll to the Spectrum stove, and read the installation instructions. These instructions must be followed for reasons of fire safety and to pass Codes Inspections. Don't mess with fire. The fire will always win and humans will almost always lose-big time.

Best Wishes,

John_M

Well, I checked out the site, for the millionth time, it's kinda choppy in its reading. I'm trying to avoid cutting a hole in the roof. Is there an alternative installation?

Robert

 

[BrotherBart]

The codes put out by the National Fire Protection Association in NFPA 211, which is followed by most localities and probably referenced in that stove manual, forbids installation of a solid fuel burning appliance in a residential garage. In addition, chimneys run through window frames have probably burned down more buildings than any others.

Lots of people do both things. But your local building inspector and your home owners insurance company neither one are going to agree to it.

And I wouldn't live within two hundred yards of a house that had that setup.

 

[whotheguy]

This isn't looking good for me. I got this stove for that one single purpose of heating the garage as I use it for my woodworking shop.

Okay, so what if I decided to actually install the pipe through the ceiling of the garage, (drywall), and then through the roof? There is no insulation in the celing above the garage, it's wide open. Do I need double or even triple walled pipe?

And thanks all for the posts.

Merry Christmas!!

Robert

 

[LLigetfa]

First off, check with your municipality if NFPA 211 forbids the installation and then check with your insurance. Then you will need to have a UL approved class A chimney from the ceiling up. Your insurance and your municipality will dictate what you need to pass inspection.

 

[whotheguy]

First off, check with your municipality if NFPA 211 forbids the installation and then check with your insurance. Then you will need to have a UL approved class A chimney from the ceiling up. Your insurance and your municipality will dictate what you need to pass inspection.

Forgive me, but I am really not very knoweledgable about this stuff. I'll have to do my homework on the numicipality stuff. And what the heck is a class A chimney?

 

[LLigetfa]

Page 7 of the manual provides all sorts of detail including chimney brands and part numbers.

http://www.pacificenergy.net/product_spectrum.php

 

[whotheguy]

Page 7 of the manual provides all sorts of detail including chimney brands and part numbers.

http://www.pacificenergy.net/product_spectrum.php

Now that makes sense to me. When you said chimney, I was thinking brick stuff....I told you I was ignorant on this topic.

I'm still trying to understand why I couldn't run it out a window with two 45 degree bends. I mean, as long as the vent pipe has vertical gain, shouldn't the smoke still go up? Trust me, I'm not looking to set the place on fire, just trying to avoid cutting a hole in the roof.

I guess I'll be off to my local PE store and pick their brain for what I need. God I hope they have patience.

Thank you

Robert

 

[whotheguy]

LLigetfa, on page 10 of the manual of the link you sent me, they talk about "lighting a fire". They say to adjust the "air control" to position H. Do you know what this is? I can't seem to find a product identification about the stove on the website.

Robert

 

[begreen]

When the pipe exits to the exterior, normally you want the pipe to be horizontal. This stops water running back down the pipe and make for a smaller, stock sized thimble hole. It is the point of transition from the interior connector pipe that connect the the stove to the thimble and the exterior class A pipe which is what the other side of the thimble connects to.

Good guides are supplied by the pipe manufacturers. Visit either the Simpson Duratech site or the Selkirk Metalbestos site and download their installation manuals for good illustrations and part definitions. Here is a good starter article:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/installing_a_woodstove

 

[whotheguy]

When the pipe exits to the exterior, normally you want the pipe to be horizontal. This stops water running back down the pipe and make for a smaller, stock sized thimble hole. It is the point of transition from the interior connector pipe that connect the the stove to the thimble and the exterior class A pipe which is what the other side of the thimble connects to.

Good guides are supplied by the pipe manufacturers. Visit either the Simpson Duratech site or the Selkirk Metalbestos site and download their installation manuals for good illustrations and part definitions. Here is a good starter article:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/installing_a_woodstove

Are you suggesting I could run the pipe vertically off the stove for about 3 feet, then make a 90 degree bend and run it through the window far enough to clear the house for combustable reasons? I would think with the pipe running horizontal it would creat more of a "drag" on the exhaust versus it being at a 45 degree angle.

 

[begreen]

Although you are correct in theory, practical needs like weather sealing, safety and standard fittings take precedence. The horiz run should have a slight uphill run of about 1/4" / ft. to assist draft. The key to overcoming the "drag" is having the correct amount of vertical pipe on the outside to create a decent draft.

Regardless, when this stove is started up from cold, it probably will be really cold, unlike a stove in a house. It may take a newspaper fire to warm up the flue and get it working well, but after that, it should draft ok as long as there is about 12 ft + on the outside.

 

[snowtime]

One thing that I read is solid burners in a garage have to be a certain distance off the floor. I think the big problem is fumes from equipment such as car, lawn mower etc. You definitely need to find the regs for your area.

 

[whotheguy]

Although you are correct in theory, practical needs like weather sealing, safety and standard fittings take precedence. The horiz run should have a slight uphill run of about 1/4" / ft. to assist draft. The key to overcoming the "drag" is having the correct amount of vertical pipe on the outside to create a decent draft.

Regardless, when this stove is started up from cold, it probably will be really cold, unlike a stove in a house. It may take a newspaper fire to warm up the flue and get it working well, but after that, it should draft ok as long as there is about 12 ft + on the outside.

Why 12 feet on the outside? Is this to allow proper venting/burn needs? I mean, I can do 12 feet with no problem, just wondering why so much.

 

[whotheguy]

One thing that I read is solid burners in a garage have to be a certain distance off the floor. I think the big problem is fumes from equipment such as car, lawn mower etc. You definitely need to find the regs for your area.

Don't know if this matters, but the stove sits on a pedestal. Fumes would not be a problem as there is no room in the garage for vehicles/lawn equipment as my woodworking machines take up a lot of space.

And yes, I do need to find some regs. I live pretty rural, but surely there is ordinances of some type.

Robert

 

[LLigetfa]

A through the wall with bends and 12 feet will give lousy draft. Go straight up through the roof and you will have better draft. Cutting through the roof is no big deal.

 

[whotheguy]

A through the wall with bends and 12 feet will give lousy draft. Go straight up through the roof and you will have better draft. Cutting through the roof is no big deal.

Sh!t, I'm now back to the roof thing. :bug:

 

[cycloxer]

Putting a stove in your garage/workshop is no big deal BUT spend the time to make sure your chimney setup will draft properly. You will be glad you did. I vote for the straight up chimney with black pipe inside the garage and stainless on the exterior. I'm sure you can figure this one out and it is not more than a few hours of work. Just pick a good spot for the stove so that you only cut the hole once.

There are a lot of guys up around here who use wood stoves to heat their garages and workshops and they work remarkably well. That's how the old-schoolers heated everything up here.

 

[begreen]

I don't buy that the draft will be terrible, assuming that there is about 3 ft vertical coming off the stove first. But it's not going to be ideal. The stove was likely designed and tested for ~16 of flue. So Lig is correct to suggest going straight up. And although it may seem a bit more of a hassle, it could end up costing about the same amount. Thimbles, elbows, cleanout tee and brackets, wall braces, etc all add up quickly for an outside installation. If you can go straight up, the installation could actually be simpler and the flue will definitely draw better.

As for usage in a woodshop, my main concern would be dust in the air, finishes and solvents used. If you have a good dust collection system, then it may compete with the stove for air supply. Not saying this can't be done, just things to think about.

 

[John_M]

About 8 years ago I saw a TV video displaying the importance of having an ignition source (a hot water heater w/pilot light in the video and your stove in the current discussion) elevated off the floor. In the first example the hot water heater was standing on the garage floor. Some gasoline was spilled on the floor near the hot water heater and the fuel ignited immediately. In the second example the hot water heater was mounted 12" above the floor and the same volume of gasoline took a while (seconds) to ignite. In the third example the hot water heater was mounted 18" above the floor and the same volume of gasoline did not ignite after being spilled.

My PE Spectrum manual requires a MINIMUM 15' of flue for the stove to draw properly. I have a straight vertical run 18.5' from the top of the class A chimney to the bottom bricks of the stove's burn chamber. The chimney exits through the ridge of the roof and extends 3' above the ridge. My house location is wide open to winds from all directions. There are no trees or other obstacles to create downdrafts and play other tricks with proper chimney draft. My stove draws as perfectly as I could ever hope. I am certain the installed Outside Air Kit (OAK) facilitates a better draw.

I would also strongly suggest you run the stove pipe and chimney from the top of the stove straight up through the sloped? roof. Manufactured flashings and storm collars are available to make the hole in the roof very leakproof with little effort and expense.

It sounds like you are determined to install that stove in your workshop. If so, please be certain to do it as safely as possible. Assume you will have lots of dust (which in high enough concentrations is explosive) in the air. Assume you will spill acetone, lacquer thinner, mineral spirits and other highly flammable solvents during the course of your work. Have a minimum 15# Class ABC fire extinguisher mounted near the door to the shop. Make certain the fire extinguisher is immediately accessible. All of the above respondents have offered their best recommendations based on their many years of experience dealing with wood stove installations and safety. They have "been there and done that". You would be well advised to pay attention to their counsel.

Be certain to have your installation inspected by a county or other certificated code compliance inspector. Inform your insurance company of your installation.

Best wishes,

John_M

 

[Mr Fixit]

If you go thru the roof or out the window, either way you will probably need to cut thru something. Depending how deep your eve is, the chimney will probably not get away from the garage far enough to clear it and you will need to cut through it. As mentioned above, the best configuration is to go straight up.
here are some rule of thumb tips-
- every 90 deg angle in the chimney reduces the draft by 28%
-code here in Canada requires that no more than 2 90 deg angles be used in any woodburning installation (due to the 28% drag ratio)
- use outside make up air for combustion. Sawdust is highly flammable and could cause you serious problems if drawn into the stove with the combustion air. Also, do not store flammable liquids or propane in the building where the stove is. use 3" aluminum clothes dryer vent for the makeup air (sorry, you will need to cut a hole in the wall for this also.)
- the rating tag on the back of the stove will give clearances for that model. Obey them and live.
- Pacific Energy has an installation manual for that stove free to download online. In it there are installation instructions. They also have an excellent technical support and will help you with the installation.

Good luck.

 

[cycloxer]

I'd have no problem putting a stove in my garage and they are legal up here, but I'd do it just as safe as if it were in my house. Wood is a popular heat source for small workshops. You can put in a very safe and legal setup if you do it the right way. Put in a proper chimney, seal your joints, put in an OAK if you want. Move all of your combustibles away from the stove. Then go do a sanity check and double check your work.

 

[whotheguy]

I just want to confirm I'm not looking for the easy way out with this install, just the simplest and at the same time, a safe one.

Based on the replies, I'm going to have to go with roof install. I can't argue with those that know a bunch more than I do about
this topic.

As a couple of posters mentioned about fumes and wood dust. My water heater is off the ground roughly 20 inches. I don't keep gasoline
or the likes in the garage, they stay outside. I do have some chemicals, but they are/will be far away from the stove and usually secured in a cabinet. As far as the wood dust, I do sometimes make a bit of it, but nothing extreme. I have a 3hp dust collector that pulls the wood chips/sawdust from each machine, except the bandsaw, (that doesn't make much dust). I also have a ceiling mounted air filtration system that filters the garage roughly 5-6 times an hour. Don't know if it would cause me problems for the stove in regards to air supply. I mean, it sucks room air in from one side, runs it though various catch pleats and filters, then exhausts it out the back. Thsi unit actually filters the air down to 2 microns. I was actually thinking of using the air filtration unit to "circulate" the heated air around the room. In theory, if I was to line of the exhaust of the air unit so it blows towards the stove area wouldn't this be a way of moving heated air around? And wouldn't this help supply the area around the stove with all the air it could use?

Thanks again for all the post guys. You've really cleared things up.

Robert

 

[cycloxer]

hummm, you might have to run an OAK anyway just to get the proper air to the stove. I say this due to all of the filtration systems you are running. It's tough to guess exactly how bad of a negative air pressure situation you may or may not have. If I could plumb in an OAK, I would do it just to make your stove system even more contained and sealed from your workshop. Also, this shouldn't be that difficult to plumb in your garage as you can just go right out one of the walls.

I think if you run your air filtration system it is going to automatically circulate the heat throughout your garage anyway. It's really just a big fan with a filter. It might work quite well.