PE Summit vs. Blaze King Princess

[danielsonrose]

Why is there such a big difference in rated heating area between the summit and the Blaze King. The fire box has very little difference in size but yet the blaze king is only rated at about half of the heating capacity of the summit. I am looking for responses for actual the actual square footage that is heated with both of these stoves and how well they have worked with temperatures consistently below 30 deg F. How hot were you able to keep the house etc and a little bit about the layout of the house. I have a PE Summit and am struggling to adequately heat less than 3000 sft. Any feedback is appreciated.

 

[Todd]

Oh, oh, I got a feeling we are going to have a Summit/Blaze king debate soon?

Manufactures sq ft heating claims are often bloviated. You should go by the firebox capacity. The larger the firebox the more BTU's you will get.

Do you have a blower for your stove? Fans also help circulate.

 

[danielsonrose]

I don't want to start a big battle, just trying to get some more information. BTW my home is newly constructed (3 years old), well insulated, ranch with a full walkout basement.

 

[Gunner]

I have the summit and heat 1800sqft in southern Ontario, house is fairly well insulated but has alot of windows...floor plan is very open. I have no problem heating, can raise the temp of the house quickly on even the coldest of days.

Stove is on the main floor of a two story, interior chimney. Full basement, unfinished, receives no heat, not used as living space. Second floor is within 5 degrees of the main floor due to large central staircase.

Typically I fire the stove twice a day morning and night and have no problem going 12-14hrs between burns...after 12hrs the stove is down to 200-300deg when I reload. Once it gets below
-10C I will burn three slightly smaller loads a day if I'm home, but don't let the stove cool off as much inbetween.

The firebox's are almost the same size, but the difference I think is the BK is designed to burn longer but not as hot. The summit will NOT burn for hours on end at 300 degrees like the BK will, it likes to be up around 600. They both hold the same amount of wood so in theory will give you the same amount of heat but the summit will give it faster, the Princess longer but not as hot.

3000 is alot to heat with any one stove, and probably unrealistic...they are space heater after all. It may work though in a mild climate, with fantastic insulation and an OPEN floorplan.

 

[Gunner]

I don't want to start a big battle, just trying to get some more information. BTW my home is newly constructed (3 years old), well insulated, ranch with a full walkout basement.

Let me guess, Stove is in the basement right?

Lets have all the details of the install, to better help you.

Maybe you could post a floorplan?

Unfortunately large ranch houses are often the hardest to heat with a woodstove.

 

[danielsonrose]

Officially, it is in the basement but the basement is a full walkout with both the north and the west walls competely at walkout grade with only a portion of the south and the entire ease wall below grade. 2/3rds of the walls area above grade insulated stud wall insulatied and 1/3rd concrete wall below grade insulated with 3/4" foil faced (both sides) insulation. You can say it is the basement but in reality from a heating standpoint it is somewhere in between a basement and a normal first floor.

The stove is directly in front of an open stairwell. Open floor plan. Stairway is in the middle of the house. I know heat is rising and I am getting circulation but just not able to keep up with it when it is below 30 deg F. I don't have a hot basement and cold upstairs, most areas are relatively the same temperature. Of course right in the direct vacinity of the stove it is warmer.

Would I be in the same predicament with any stove? Is 3000 ft too much to be expected to heat with one stove?

 

[TMonter]

One of my neighbors has a Blaze King princess he's been burning I believe for about 7+ years now. He has nothing but good things to say about the stove. The only thing he doesn't like is the lack of a window on his older model.

I don't think you could wrong with either the Blaze King or the PE. If you like to see flames, buy the PE, if you want slightly longer burn times at low fire buy the Blaze King.

 

[Gunner]

What stovetop temps are you running at? Get a thermo if you don't have one.
At 30deg F you should be able to heat that place up pretty good.

Interior or exterior chimney?
How tall?

Is your wood DRY? Does it light within a few seconds after loading onto a bed of coals?

Would I be in the same predicament with any stove? Is 3000 ft too much to be expected to heat with one stove?

Yes, unless you had absolutely ideal conditions. But saying that I think there are other issues at play here cause at 30deg you should be cooking in that house with any 3cuft stove runnig full tilt.

 

[danielsonrose]

Stove temps held between 500 and 625. Flu gas temp 500-650.

Draft is good. Get all night burn without a problem. Exterior chimney.

Perfect wood. Seasoned red and white oak.

Here is the sequence. Load wood onto the coals and open inlet all the way up. Flu gas goes to about 800-1000. Secondary burn is cooking. Shut it down to almost low. Able to maintain secondary burn with flu gas and stove temp as indicated above. Re-load after about 6-7 hours.

 

[Gunner]

Well something seems amiss...on a full load over 8hrs you are putting out about 43 000 btu/hr. Should be more than enough for a 30deg day.
http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/wscompha.htm

Also if I was to burn a FULL load of oak in 6-7hrs my stovetop temps would be unbelievably high. At the 6th hr mark on a full load temps would still be 500-600 deg. If I was to reload at that time I imagine temps woulds skyrocket above 900deg...

I don't want to insult you but I still question how dry the wood is...3cuft of red oak burned in 6hrs would require an approach suit to tend the stove.

Your stovepipe temps seem high compared to the stove. I have doublewall with a prope thermo and my pipe temps are consistently 200deg cooler than the stovetop, the fact that your pipe is as hot or hotter than your stove is wierd. At 600 my flue would be 400.

 

[danielsonrose]

Gunner,
Cut and split myself October 14, 2006. Stacked and covered (only the top) within one week. The end of the wood are cracked and it has a crisp sound when you hit two pieces together. I am quite confident you can call the wood I am using seasoned. Flu gas temps can range depending on where the probe is at. Mine is about 18" above the stove. Maybe yours is a little higher? Gas temperature reduces as the burn time goes on of course. Once charred, the smoke out the chimney is not noticable. Also, after the wood is charred the inlet is adjusted to just a little above "L".

Any further thoughts are appreciated. I like you, thought I would able to easily heat to 70 in the house with the temp between 30-40.

 

[webbie]

I think, in general, 3000 sq ft in Michigan is too much to heat 100% with just about any stove. We always told our customer to expect to supplement 65 to 85% of their heat load. It sounds like you are doing that. A 40 degree rise in the temp of a 3,000 sq ft house is nothing to sneeze at!

If you were in Washington state of Oregon...or many other similar areas, you would be toasting the entire house 100%. These areas usually have average winter temps way above 30.

For entire house heating of larger homes in cold weather, central heating is often the only thing that will REALLY do the job.

 

[Gunner]

Gunner,
Cut and split myself October 14, 2006. Stacked and covered (only the top) within one week. The end of the wood are cracked and it has a crisp sound when you hit two pieces together. I am quite confident you can call the wood I am using seasoned. Flu gas temps can range depending on where the probe is at. Mine is about 18" above the stove. Maybe yours is a little higher? Gas temperature reduces as the burn time goes on of course. Once charred, the smoke out the chimney is not noticable. Also, after the wood is charred the inlet is adjusted to just a little above "L".

Any further thoughts are appreciated. I like you, thought I would able to easily heat to 70 in the house with the temp between 30-40.

Sounds like you know what your doing and wood is indeed dry. I would not expect it to carry the load 100% in the dead of winter but at 30 should be no problem. I don't get it?

 

[danielsonrose]

I think, in general, 3000 sq ft in Michigan is too much to heat 100% with just about any stove. We always told our customer to expect to supplement 65 to 85% of their heat load. It sounds like you are doing that. A 40 degree rise in the temp of a 3,000 sq ft house is nothing to sneeze at!

If you were in Washington state of Oregon...or many other similar areas, you would be toasting the entire house 100%. These areas usually have average winter temps way above 30.

For entire house heating of larger homes in cold weather, central heating is often the only thing that will REALLY do the job.

Thanks for your input. I do realize it is a larger area. I think I was hoping for a little more with the publicized 3000+ sft heating capacity.

 

[karl]

That's strange. I have a ranch house around 2400 square feet or so. Yesterday the high was 35 and the low was in the 20's. They say the high today is 40 and we aren't going to make it there. anyway this morning it was about 30 out when I got up and the house was 60. The house was so cold because I was gone most all day and the only real fire I had going was the overnight burn. I have the Summit insert and I'm having no problems at all. I got up reloaded the insert and two hours later the house was 65. Now its right around 70 and I have a low burn going.

I think you might be surprised how much heat those basement walls are wicking away. Also, how cold is the house. I have gotten and said to myself that $#%^ stove isn't doing it's job. Then I realize im wearing a t-shirt and I'm barefoot.

 

[danielsonrose]

It is a little strange, but maybe that is the best I will get. Just got a call from my wife saying it is 63 in the house and it is 27 outside. Loaded it up full at 6:30 this morning with the house at 63 and outside temp at 19. Highest she saw it through the day in the house was 65. She has reloaded 1 full time and another partial since this morning and it is 3:30 pm now.

Maybe your right and the basement walls are eating up the heat. With very little exposed concrete, both floor and wall I really didn't think this would be the case though. I do realize +-3000 (+-1500 per level) is a lot to heat and is hard to heat.

Another thing that is odd is that the thermostat is very close +- 15' from the top of the stairs. It is not like it is tucked in a back bedroom.

Anyway, thanks for all of your input and thoughts.

 

[Hogwildz]

I suggest doing some searches of this forum relating to basement installs. Yes some of that heat will rise, but, I have a feeling not as much as you are anticipating.
Basements are by nature cooler and damp. Concrete walls & floor do absorb some heat. With finished and insulated it will help, but still not the best location for a stove.
I have read countless folks complaining/having problems with their basement located stove not heating the upper floor(s) of the house. I personally think this is a main part of your problem. As pointed out to many folks over time, a stove is essentially a space heater, NOT a furnace. Those of us who are lucky to be able to heat the entire or most of the home with them, are just that, lucky, and have a good layout & wisely placed space heater of a stove that does more than it was intended to do.
I am thinking to get enough heat to heat your level above the basement, you would have to have that basement well over 90f to make any kind of dent upstairs. As that heated air is traveling, its cooling off also. The level the stove is on can in time actually heat everything up in that area with a steady hot air constantly filling all the open space. With a basement install now that air must funnel through a tunnel or channeled shaft so to speak and is not going to have the affect of wide open area. And any room off to the furthest ends of the house, forget it, a basement stove is just not going to reach all the way out there. Might want to think about putting another stove on upper level. No way in hell a basement stove can heat that upper level anywhere near what a stove on that level would do. Are the ceilings in the upper level cathedral by chance?

 

[danielsonrose]

Nope not cathedral. Funny thing about it is that the basement/lower living area never gets above 70-72. It is not like an inferno. The stove is located in large room with 9' ceiling. Estimated size of the room is about 25 x 30. Stove is right in front of the stairwell though. Actually bedrooms are cooler but if the doors are open to the rooms they are only an estimated 3-5 degrees cooler than the thermostat reading.

I have read the information about the install in the basement and the varying results. I was hoping that mine, being a full walkout on two full sides and daylight on another would not suffer as harshly as a complete below grade basement.

 

[iceman]

Nope not cathedral. Funny thing about it is that the basement/lower living area never gets above 70-72. It is not like an inferno. The stove is located in large room with 9' ceiling. Estimated size of the room is about 25 x 30. Stove is right in front of the stairwell though. Actually bedrooms are cooler but if the doors are open to the rooms they are only an estimated 3-5 degrees cooler than the thermostat reading.

I have read the information about the install in the basement and the varying results. I was hoping that mine, being a full walkout on two full sides and daylight on another would not suffer as harshly as a complete below grade basement.

i ahev a room in my basement like yours i opted out of putting my summit down there for fear it wouldn't heat my WHOLE HOUSE
so i put it on my second level and it does 2300 sq feet just fine i am going to install a thru the wall fan to make it even better
here is a pic of my house
notice where my cimney is it heats everything to the left of it and going up to the highest point
you can also see some of the back to get an idea of how much space it is heating
if you are looking at the back of the house the summit is down by the stairs all the way down but in the middle of the room

 

[Gunner]

I posted this before but from this link
http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/wscompha.htm

To compute the area each woodstove would heat, we used a model of a medium-well insulated house with 8' ceilings, thermopane or storm windows and a fairly open floor plan in a climate where Winter temperatures average between 20 - 40 degrees F. Any deviations from this model (ie: colder climate, poor insulation, high ceilings, etc.) must be taken into consideration when choosing your stove.

Strike 1Your at the extreme end of rated sqft to begin with
2 colder climate
3 poor insulation- huge heat sink lower 1/3 of basement wall and floor
4 9ft ceiling increase your cubic feet of heating space
5 less than ideal layout and location for the stove

 

[danielsonrose]

Very similar house to mine. Cut off the living space above the garage and you are lookin at my house basically. Rear is almost identical. I do have a few more windows which is a negative as far as heat loss goes. I would conclude, based on my experience with the stove, that the summit would heat one larger level quite well. I think my situation is challenging for any stove. I gambled a little hoping that it would heat the two levels.

 

[RedRanger]

Dan: I will try not to make this too long a read for you. We have a similiar problem, home is only 1900sq.ft. but with 4 levels. My1985 PE insert is in the rec-room. lowest level and that room is 14 x 26. with a laundry-boiler room off of that, then the stairs to the next level. I get the rec-room up to 74 before I turn on the doorway fan leading up to the next level, then turn on the ceiling fan on that level, and after that turn on the ceiling fan on the 3rd level. We get decent heat on the first 3 levels, but the bedrooms and bathroom on the 4th level never get above 64. This is where the booster heat comes into play. There are 2 ways I can do this. 1-turn on the central oil-fired boiler. 2 turn on the propane insert located on the 3rd level. Now, even when the temp is below freezing, if I get the temp up to 72 by the propane insert or the boiler, the fireplace will maintain that temperature for a minimum of 4 hours,providing we have power and the fans are all running. I`m a nut for this stuff, got a thermometer on every level. It is all trial and error,eg. if I want the heat to reach the 4th level, then I turn off the ceiling fan on the 3rd level, kinda evens out the heat. Should mention that when it`s really cold, the 3rd level wont go above 66 with only the fireplace going. Not until I add that BOOST. Do you have anything else to heat your home with? We go through surprisingly little oil and propane by applying those alternate heat sources only for boosting and overnite. I could easily heat the entire house if we had placed another wood insert on the 3rd level where the propane insert is located. However,no matter what your age, you have to keep in mind (resale value) Not everyone will want to do wood chores for 2 stoves or inserts. It is a "noble boast" to say I heat my entire home with wood only. But maybe not that practical unless the house was specifically designed to accomodate that. Hope this reply gives you some new ideas. Best regards..

 

[Hogwildz]

Nope not cathedral. Funny thing about it is that the basement/lower living area never gets above 70-72. It is not like an inferno. The stove is located in large room with 9' ceiling. Estimated size of the room is about 25 x 30. Stove is right in front of the stairwell though. Actually bedrooms are cooler but if the doors are open to the rooms they are only an estimated 3-5 degrees cooler than the thermostat reading.

I have read the information about the install in the basement and the varying results. I was hoping that mine, being a full walkout on two full sides and daylight on another would not suffer as harshly as a complete below grade basement.

I think you just pegged the problem. If that Summit is not getting that basement room above 70-72, than how the heck is it supposed to get the next level up even those temps? Ain't going to happen. Honestly, with good wood, good hot temp and a fan circulating, that basement room should be well over 80 if not near 90. Again, even though its not completely under ground, that basement is a heat sink no way around it. Now the open walls that aren't under ground, (double edged sword), also do not have the benefits of the natural ground insulation & steady ground temp. So either way your losing heat in that basement. But again, if its only 70-72 down (just doesn't sound right) then the upstairs is barely going to see much benefit from any now even cooler air getting upstairs. I have 2400 sf open with almost 30 at top peak cathedral ceiling above living room, open loft on other side of second level next to open living room, two bedroom & a bath upstairs. Kitchen/dining room combo & bath adjacent to living room, and an office furthest away. All but the office on a 20 degree or slightly less night its 71-75 in the entire house. Except the office. Furthest away with only one entrance so no circulation. Its still fairly comfortable back here, but not as toasty as the rest of the house. Now When I open addition to main house, I know the Summit will not heat that additional 750 sf also. I am going to see just what it will do, but I already have an Englander 30NCL in mind for the addition. The only reason the main house is well warmed and circulated (with exception of the back office) is because its a very open floor plan. That IMO, is the only way to get almost an entire home heated and close to even temps throughout, with one realistic space heater. And, yes even if the addition by some weird chance gets some heat from the main house, I am getting the Englander. I know a few minds want an Englander vs. Summit head to head comparison. Even though the Englander will only have 750 sf to content to the Summit in its 2400 sf. With good circulation though, I am optimistic the Englanders extra heat will circulate to the main house area. And if not, I'll open the slider and melt the snow around the house I still say that Summit should be heating that area to more than 70-72. Basement must be sucking some of that heat up. How well are the walls & floor insualted?

 

[Gunner]

How well are the walls & floor insualted?

Officially, it is in the basement but the basement is a full walkout with both the north and the west walls competely at walkout grade with only a portion of the south and the entire ease wall below grade. 2/3rds of the walls area above grade insulated stud wall insulatied and 1/3rd concrete wall below grade insulated with 3/4” foil faced (both sides) insulation. You can say it is the basement but in reality from a heating standpoint it is somewhere in between a basement and a normal first floor

 

[Hogwildz]

How well are the walls & floor insualted?

Officially, it is in the basement but the basement is a full walkout with both the north and the west walls competely at walkout grade with only a portion of the south and the entire ease wall below grade. 2/3rds of the walls area above grade insulated stud wall insulatied and 1/3rd concrete wall below grade insulated with 3/4” foil faced (both sides) insulation. You can say it is the basement but in reality from a heating standpoint it is somewhere in between a basement and a normal first floor

Oops, missed that, thanks Gunner. No wheres near enough insulation & a huge heat sink. I suppose the floor is not insulated. My money is on this for a majority of the problem. That size area should be naked sweating temps. 70-72 tells the whole story IMO. Not knocking the poster, just being realistic.