Pellet Furnace - new guy questions

[freeloader]

Hello everyone!
I am new to pellet stoves and pellet furnaces but I am very interested in adding a pellet furnace to my home as a 'backup furnace'. In doing a bit of research i came across this forum and decided to join. Thank you everyone for being apart of the forum and contributing.
Currently I have been focusing on adding a more economical plan for heating my (approx) 1500 sq ft home. I am currently an oil burner with forced air and I am interested in adding a pellet furnace to my heating system. I had looked at some of the manufactures and read a few reviews and feel like I have a slight grasp but have created many questions. So here goes;

1. Does anyone currently use a pellet furnace as an alternative furnace to there main furnace to reduce there heating costs? Do you like your pellet furnace? Would you consider it a wise investment and why?

2. Does anyone currently use an "Optional hot water loop kit for pre-heating domestic water"? I found this as an option with fully detailed instructions for the connections on a PSG Caddy Alterna (owners manual - http://www.sunburst-sales.com/PDFs/PSGCaddyAlterna.pdf). Here is the web page containing the pdf for the optional hot water loop - http://www.psg-distribution.com/instructions-sheets.aspx?CategoId=28.

3. What pellet furnace would you recommend? I currently have a 2-story with a basement so free standing prolly isn't the best option. I would like to have a good level of automation and I would like to be as practical and economical as possible with my choice. I am in the middle of Harman country but I am not sure they have the furnace that would best suite my desires (PF-100). I called a 'local' listed dealer for PSG and the guy who answer 'never heard of em'.

I am totally interested in a configuration with the similiar domestic hot water loop and extra hot water storage tank but have found limited examples. I don't know anyone with this setup and when I talk to the local pellet stove dealers they don't seem to know what I am talking about.

Thank you all in advance,

 

[DexterDay]

1st off.. Welcome.. Harmans make a great product. If "they" can get one that they never heard of! (You need dealer support). Maxim makes an outdoor boiler system that holds a massive amount of pellets. St. Criox makes the Revolution with great technology and a "Clinker Cutter" system. There is at least one member on here that owns one of these. How many different Brands have you looked at? There are several good ones on the market. From 50,000 all the way past 100,000. Some have much bigger Convection blowers than others. Some look sleek and are small, some are bulky, big, and look like a "furnace".
I just bought a Fahrenhiet Endurance Furnace and another member has one on this Forum also. They have a cleaning mechanism also. Almost like a bulldozer, to clean the pot, while never fully extinguishing the fire. The other member in question (ChrisWNY) has had his "hooked up" for a couple months and loves his furnace. I just bought mine and have only ran it in my garage a couple times for testing. I can say that it seems to be a pretty good unit. I currently use my Quadrafire CB 1200 to heat my 2,180 sq ft house to 75, without the use of Propane at all. The furnace was bought to only heat the bedrooms at night. Will run the Quad during waking hrs and the furnace while sleeping.
The furnace is in my 3 car garage. It is half insulated and almost 1,000 sq ft. It does not take long for the furnace to get it warm in there. Have it temporarily piped out to do testing. I Hope to get it in the basement soon.
I prob have been of no assistance, just rambling on. Others will chime in with there 2 cents.

 

[freeloader]

hello,
i have actually reviewed many of the mainstream internet posted biomass/pellet furnaces. Actually looked at the one you have, it looks like a great stove. In a search for real world data and reviews, I found a website that rated some of the pellet furnaces and that is actually how i came across the PSG mentioned.

After initially intending to reduce hot water costs with solar and comparing the expense, I came across the idea of running a 'boiler' and storage tank to help support the hot water useage in the house. Not being the greatest of plumbers, I spoke to a few local pellet stove dealers and was told that they didnt think the 'boiler' idea i had with the DHW storage was practical. Biomass/pellet furnaces jumped out as a an economical solution and wham here I am trying to improve quality of life by hopefully discovering some real world data and the right pellet furnace.
thank you!

 

[DexterDay]

This is a great site, that is intended just for that. This is my 3rd seaon burning my Quad. I just found this forum a few months ago.(Wish I knew sooner). I can tell you what I have read on the Fahrenhiet -its problems- (or so I've read).
1.- Some say it is under powered. Its 50,000 BTU's. My Quad which is around 45,000 heats my entire Ranch to 75. So I'm gonna find that one hard to believe.
2.- the blower is to small. - Its 600 or 800 CFM's. Which only means to me the output temp should be higher than a 1,000-2,000 CFM model.
Again. It is not fully hooked up, so I can not TRUELY tell you. It may be terrible. But because I just bought it, and I'm in LOVE with it. I can't say a bad word about it yet.
Many people own the Harman PF-100 and the PB-105. I looked into those also. Seem to be a Big and Beautiful unit. Keep researching.. Go with what you like and feel is BIg enough for your application.

 

[ChrisWNY]

As Dexter mentioned, do some research on the brands, check out your local dealers in PA to see one in action in a show room, this will also allow you to see the physical size of a pellet furnace and/or stove so that you know how it might fit into your floor plan, whether in a basement or in your living space. The cost to tie into existing duct work can be quite costly no matter which furnace you decide to purchase. I ended up direct-ducting my Fahrenheit pellet furnace into my great room, the furnace puts out enough heat to warm my entire 2500 sq. ft. house, and my family and I benefit the most from the heat going into the great room as that's where we spend 90% of the time when we're at home. You will want to place a pellet furnace in a location that will minimize the length of PL venting for exhaust. PL vent should not exceed 20 ft., the less you need to use, the better, it's expensive stuff because the inner wall of the pipe is stainless steel.

A pellet furnace is a wise investment for anyone heating on oil or propane, since the cost of those two fuels is constantly rising, much more so than the cost of pellets, which are cheap by comparison to heating on oil, propane, or electric. On propane, I was never able to heat my house beyond 65°F because the monthly costs were too high. Since having my Fahrenheit furnace installed and ducted, I've been heating up to 72°F while eliminating the use of propane for heating. After the first month of use, I cut my LP gas use by over 100 gallons, that's more than a 50% reduction compared to the previous month prior to having a pellet furnace in the mix. Overall the unit will pay for itself within 4 years, and the $1500 tax credit basically paid for the installation and the PL venting.

As for the blower on the Fahrenheit, it pumps out plenty of heat at 600/800 cfm - just make sure to follow ducting requirements for the furnace, both for the return and the heat venting; the Fahrenheit unit requires 10" ducting on both the return and heat ducts, but 10" can be branched into two 8" ducts for the same heat output, which is why I have two 12x20" registers about 10 ft. apart in my great room for heat out put. I boxed in a 14" I-Joist cavity and ran 10" ducting down to the return register in the back of the furnace to provide plenty of return air to the unit. The return vent is on the opposite side of the room, 25' away from the heat registers, it creates a nice pattern of airflow across the room and maximizes heat transfer within the room. Designing the duct and heat/return register layout is important for getting the most out of your furnace. Within one hour of firing up the unit, my first floor indoor temperature rises nearly 10°F (from 62° to 72°).

 

[jtakeman]

hello,
i have actually reviewed many of the mainstream internet posted biomass/pellet furnaces. Actually looked at the one you have, it looks like a great stove. In a search for real world data and reviews, I found a website that rated some of the pellet furnaces and that is actually how i came across the PSG mentioned.

After initially intending to reduce hot water costs with solar and comparing the expense, I came across the idea of running a 'boiler' and storage tank to help support the hot water useage in the house. Not being the greatest of plumbers, I spoke to a few local pellet stove dealers and was told that they didnt think the 'boiler' idea i had with the DHW storage was practical. Biomass/pellet furnaces jumped out as a an economical solution and wham here I am trying to improve quality of life by hopefully discovering some real world data and the right pellet furnace.
thank you!

Welcome freeloader,

Could you share the link to the review site with us? I too an looking to someday upgrade to a furnace.

 

[freeloader]

hello,

http://www.hvac-for-beginners.com/biomass-furnace-ratings.html

Thanks for the insight on the venting. I am trying to sort out the floor plan and keep reviewing furnace specifics so as to attempt to place the furnace as close to the exisiting furnace and water heater and close to the exterior wall for venting.

 

[Fsappo]

As a PSG distributor just north of you, I have obviously heard of the Alterna furnace, but I have yet to sell one. I like to see stuff like that in the field a year or so before I start hawking them. We also distribute the Pinnacle pellet furnaces in PA. I love the furnaces for being very simple to use and easy to install/maintain/work on. I have sold a few with the hot water kits, and had good responses from the customers. My only sticking point with their model GBU130 (there only real "furnace") is that it may be a little large for 1500 square feet. Have you run a heat loss on the home? How many BTUs is your current oil furnace?

 

[exoilburner]

I am running a Harmon PF100 pellet furnace in parallel with an oil forced air furnace. I use the pellet furnace as my primary heat and the oil furnace as the back up. The hot air and cold air ducting is in parallel so isolation dampers are needed in the ducts to prevent air flow from circulating around the furnaces.

1. Does anyone currently use a pellet furnace as an alternative furnace to there main furnace to reduce there heating costs? Do you like your pellet furnace? Would you consider it a wise investment and why?
Yes I like the heat from the PF100 it is more comfortable than the oil heat. It's remote room thermostat keeps the house temperature more even than the oil furnace. It was a wise investment because (depending on oil prices) it will pay for itself in 4-6 years and be saving after that. It provides a second fuel alternative. It allows to load in an entire year's worth of fuel at the previous years price (if you have the storage space).

2. Does anyone currently use an “Optional hot water loop kit for pre-heating domestic water� I found this as an option with fully detailed instructions for the connections on a PSG Caddy Alterna (owners manual - http://www.sunburst-sales.com/PDFs/PSGCaddyAlterna.pdf). Here is the web page containing the pdf for the optional hot water loop - http://www.psg-distribution.com/instructions-sheets.aspx?CategoId=28.
I don't heat hot water with it and it is not designed for that option.

3. What pellet furnace would you recommend? I currently have a 2-story with a basement so free standing prolly isn’t the best option. I would like to have a good level of automation and I would like to be as practical and economical as possible with my choice. I am in the middle of Harman country but I am not sure they have the furnace that would best suite my desires (PF-100). I called a ‘local’ listed dealer for PSG and the guy who answer ‘never heard of em’.
My only experience is with the PF100 so can't compare it. But if I had to do it over again I would get another one.

 

[freeloader]

Hello,
Thanks for the response. I dove into the pinnacle, love the dual tank setup shown in the installation guide. What a great furnace! It looks feature packed. The documentation i saw on the Pinnacle furnace described that it can burn wood pellets or corn, but the guide recommends against other fuel.

I havent had a heat loss done on the house, but have addressed some insulation question marks this last fall. We defenitly noticed an increase in comfort on the second floor. I have one more door and two small window to replace and the entire house should get a good overall insulation rating (improved to approx r-60 attic, r-30 walls, 90+% windows and doors replaced less than 5 years ago). My oil furnace is 97,000 btu.

The PF-100 defenitly looks good, and if I decide against the domestic hotwater loop I am leaning towards the Harman. The PSG Caddy Alterna looks like it got all the right options I am looking for (got a great review too!), but I haven't heard from any owners yet. I am trying not to fall in love with any one particular furnace until I see as many furnaces as possible and hear real world experiences. The Outdoor show and builder show are local the next two weeks, and I am hoping to find a winner! Ideally some furnace qualities I would like to review/exploit would be 1.automation, capacity and ease of use, 2. biomass fuel burning capabilites, 3. domestic hot water loop, 4. price

thanks for listening and thanks a ton for your responses!

 

[hossthehermit]

Third year with the Revolution. Marketed as a true multifueler, (pellets, corn,cherry pits, ddg), but I haven't found anything except pellets to burn in it. Been my primary (read ONLY) heat for 3 years now, spend 2 minutes/day tending it, 20 minutes once a week cleaning it. Have burned pellets that other people consider "dirt in a bag", kept my house warm. Sits beside my oil furnace, hooked into the same ductwork, I can run either/or, but not both, just because I'm too lazy. It's Maine. I'm old.

 

[freeloader]

thanks for the information everyone. Makes me feel good about my decision to go to a mulitfuel/pellet furnace, and to know you guys are making these furnace work as a primary heat source for years! essentially that is what i am interested in also, running the multifuel furnace as primary and only using the oil burner as a last resort. in reading through the posts and attempting to formulate the floor plan i ran into the issue of connecting the ducting. i was wondering if anyone had pictures of how there cold and hot air 'plenums' connected. i think i understand the concept of the dampeners but any insight is helpful. my other concern is the actual positioning of the stove. my oil tank is in the basement and i would like to keep the furnace as far away as possible but still easily and efficiently connect into the exsisting duct work. i am guessing that the furnace i end up selecting may have specifics but any examples would be appreciated.

on a side note and maybe something that i should start another thread on, but what about power redundancy? i saw a signature of a member listing UPS and emergency generator, is this a common solution to power outages to keep the furnace/stove rockin?

thanks again everyone

 

[exoilburner]

Locating the position of the pellet furnace takes some planning. In my case there was only one spot in my basement where it would work.
Check the install manual carefully for:
Minimum clearance of furnace cabinet to combustibles like posts, beams, joists, walls and so on.
Minimum clearance of exhaust vent pipe to house windows.
Maximum length of vent pipe and number of connectors. Clearance of vent pipe to combustibles.
Maximum length of outside air pipe.
Plenum connections to the pellet furnace.
The combination of these requirements gets pretty restrictive and can sure change the convenient spot you would like to put it in.

 

[freeloader]

thanks again guys!
any example pics of the duct work connections on a 2 furnace set up would appreciated.. I would jus like to see how others are getting this done. I saw some pictures and figures in a few of the installation manuals while i was reviewing the specs, but a picture is worth a thousand words!

 

[hossthehermit]

thanks again guys!
any example pics of the duct work connections on a 2 furnace set up would appreciated.. I would jus like to see how others are getting this done. I saw some pictures and figures in a few of the installation manuals while i was reviewing the specs, but a picture is worth a thousand words!

I'll see if I can get some up tonight of my setup, or at least by this weekend.

 

[Heaterhunter]

I was just in a local shop and saw a harman pellet furnace on the showroom with a small dent in it's side. Price was reduced by half! Looked like a STEEL to me but I'm not heavy on furnace pricing. It would be a poke for you but maybe $3000 would be worth the drive if it's what you want. Sorry I don't have any more info such as model and weather it can support a hot water loop. Private message me if you want the contact info.

 

[DexterDay]

$3,000 for a NEW Harman. Whether its the PF 100 or the PB 105. That a phenomenal deal. If I could find a new one that cheap, I would put a DENT in it!! LOL

 

[Heaterhunter]

$3,000 for a NEW Harman. Whether its the PF 100 or the PB 105. That a phenomenal deal. If I could find a new one that cheap, I would put a DENT in it!! LOL

I don't think it was quite that low ($3000) What I meant to say was $3000 off the original price of $6600, so just over $3000 which I am assuming is still epic...

 

[DexterDay]

$3,000 for a NEW Harman. Whether its the PF 100 or the PB 105. That a phenomenal deal. If I could find a new one that cheap, I would put a DENT in it!! LOL

I don't think it was quite that low ($3000) What I meant to say was $3000 off the original price of $6600, so just over $3000 which I am assuming is still epic...

Either way, still a good deal.

 

[Heaterhunter]

Just called the shop and this is what the stove is: http://www.harmanstoves.com/products/details.asp?cat=central-heating&prd=forced-air&f=FURSF2600

 

[Turbo-Quad]

Hmm thats no pellet furnace. Bad link?

 

[DexterDay]

Just called the shop and this is what the stove is: http://www.harmanstoves.com/products/details.asp?cat=central-heating&prd=forced-air&f=FURSF2600

Not a fan anymore. That's still a good deal, for someone who burns wood. No pellets.. No Thank You

 

[Heaterhunter]

I've done it now... Got everyone in an uproar about a non pellet burning furnace. It burns Wood(not pellets)/coal/ and oil. My bad! :red:

 

[hossthehermit]

thanks again guys!
any example pics of the duct work connections on a 2 furnace set up would appreciated.. I would jus like to see how others are getting this done. I saw some pictures and figures in a few of the installation manuals while i was reviewing the specs, but a picture is worth a thousand words!

OK

In the first pic, the big round vertical pipe is the cold air return to the oil furnace, the rectangular vertical thing is the plenum (warm air discharge) of the oil furnace and the rectangular horizontal thing is one of the supply ducts for the main floor. The big vertical / elbow / horizontal round one is the supply (warm) air from the pellet furnace, the small round one is the pellet vent. In the second one, the supply (warm) air from the pellet furnace is in the foreground, going in to the oil furnace plenum. Wish I could explain it better, ask if ya want me to clear up, or add to, the confusion.

 

[turbotech]

Is that a filter at the back bottom of the pellet furnace or is it designed to be tied into the existing cold air return? How did you block off the existing duct work to the oil burner?