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Pellet sampling on a broad scale. Multiple burners=entertaining???

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by jtakeman, Jul 19, 2010.

?

Would multiple burners sampling pellets be useful to the group?

  1. Yes

    87.7%
  2. No, a waste of time

    10.5%
  3. Undecided

    1.8%
  4. Go test somewhere else.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
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  1. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    You all know I tested a mess of pellets last year. I "may" test some this year as well. Due to lack of valuable time, I can't test that many brands this year. I would like to see if we could get as many members as possible evaluating pellets this year.

    There was some squabling on how I tested and in the end the only thing that seemed valuable was the total ash content. Everything else was deemed to have no value by some.

    Before the next test's begin, I would like to get what the group wants to see. Starting now should give everyone a chance to add something and weigh in with there idea's. Lets get it done now before we start in say late Sept or early October.

    Here are a few of mine.

    1. 2 threads 1 each for test results only and the requesting of brands to be sampled.

    2. A moderator to help in keeping above in line. Moving the request's to the proper thread. Lets try to keep it orderly. Easier to follow

    3. Members testing to post results in one post.

    4. Lots of members burning a sample and forwarding the results.

    Even if all we sample is the total ash amount. Some info is better than no info at all. IMHO. Think about it!

    OH And by the way, My name is "JAY" not jake. :lol:

    Here's what we have so far:
    List brand and 2 bag burn should do and stove on medium heat.

    1.) Average heat in ºF optional ????

    2.) Ash volume shown in a mason jar for a nice visual

    3.) Ash weight and percentage

    4.) fines This could be percentage or volume?

    5.) Pellet density how many pounds fit in a 1 cu ft. container optional???

    6.) Check bag weight. If bags are over weight correct to 80 LBS. Balance's the test to just burn 80 LBS. of fuel. Definetly make a note if bags are under weight! Maybe add to make a full 80 LBS. burn???

    We can add to above. I sized the pellets by dia and length, Could be useful? Note if brand has a PFI label. Bag date? I would like to do an estimated burn time, But this will be hard for the people doing a auto start with a stat. 24/7 burners could.

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  2. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    I'd sure like to know who voted go test somewhere else! Your wish maybe granted!

    BTU, I was thinking big picture with many many users comparing. With the stove variables it would be hard to compare temps. But the othere things like ash and fines have little to do with the stove. If we had say 3 users with a Quad CB1200 and they all tested MWP. We might be able get an average. Or for that matter just average all the stove temps and Instead of a temp listing in ºF, Maybe a scale of some sort. Or just ignore the temp all together? IDK. Just throwing it out there. Looking for feedback tis all.
  3. gbreda

    gbreda Minister of Fire

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    Yo Jake......sorry, had to do it :cheese:

    First and foremost. your tests last year helped me immensly in my search for pellets. Especially in my first year. The education I got from those 2 threads (yes the bickering included) was priceless for me.

    I cast the only undecided vote...at this time. This is due to the lack of a constant that is generally required in comparison testing (especially in the stove model area), just as BTU mentioned.

    Your theory of using results based similar types of stoves might work if there are enough participants AND someone that will crunch the numbers.

    Again my vote for now is undecided, but I would be more than willing to be a Yes for what I have and could find if this happens.

    Interested to see where this goes.........

    Geno
  4. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    G,

    Not sure how things are going to work out, I am a bit concerned myself. Hopefully we can figure something out.

    I would like to nominate "BTU" as the official number cruncher! Too hot in AZ for him to burn any pellets, Gotta get him to do something?? :cheese:
  5. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    Yeah, I am sure you are right and the gang would grumble on the first oops! Probably better to ask someone else. We probably wouldn't hear the end of the squawking anyway! We will get enough just with the testing alone.

    Nominee with drawn.
  6. imacman

    imacman Guest

    Jay, I voted yes, since I think that testing done across a broad spectrum of different stoves will give everyone more information. That said, I just wish I had the time to help with it, but my work & kids schedules don't leave much time to even clean the stove, much less measure temps, ash, etc, etc.
  7. Meneillys

    Meneillys Feeling the Heat

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    I think this is a good idea. Temp and ash is what my customers seem to point out the most. I have had many people bring your test results to my pellet yard.
  8. gbreda

    gbreda Minister of Fire

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    imacman and meneilly's have good points regarding a broad spectrum type of testing and the valuable info that can have. Jay did a very "proper" type of testing last year wilth the "control unit environment" needed for a very accurate result between brands. More on the scientific side. Jay did alot of work to get these test results and I think that everyone here benefited fron that.

    If this was to be a rather casual test of the everyday user, it can bring some very informative differences of the product from stove to stove to the table. IMHO, the key is a casual test.
  9. hossthehermit

    hossthehermit Minister of Fire

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    Voted undecided, Jay. SOME people MIGHT find results from SOME other people useful, informative. If Mr. A has a particular stove, and a supply of a certain pellet, AND Mr. B has the same stove, and access to the same pellets, very possibly. When ya get Mr. C in there, though, same setup, vastly different results, then it would be, at least, entertaining. But, hey, if people wanna do it, I guess it'll keep 'em off the streets. Maybe you could have an "entertaining option on the poll, instead of just "useful".
  10. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    I am in the same boat this year, Last year I had a lot of furlough days due to slow work. This year we are real busy. If we get a good crowd and are able to get 2 to 3 brands each. It should give us a bunch of brands to look at.

    One thing on the temps is that every stove has a different feed rate and a different CFM blower. So the temps may be useless to us in one way. But could be used to to compare the different brands within the batch that was tested in that or simular stove.

    Pete even if you could do what you have done the last few years will be something we could add. You had the best visuals on fines I have seen so far. ;-)

    Once the members get into doing this, I will guarantee total addiction and they will be hooked more than they are today! :lol:
  11. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    Good points hoss, I had another member PM me saying it may open up a large can of worms. If a very popular brand got a bad review the flack will fly. This could be considered entertaining to many. I will add it to the topic, But I can't change the poll.

    I know there are lots of variables that will be tough to work out. So far we are just discussing details. Hopefully we can find a ideal way to compare with in a broad stove spectrum. Maybe not??? There just maybe to many variables.

    On your thoughts on Mr. A, B, C,. We could look at MR C's other test brands. If they are way out there. We could look and see if brand A,B, and C, are comparable but on a different scale. Something within the stove variables we might have issues with. Maybe we need to just look at each stove and tester individually???
  12. imacman

    imacman Guest

    Unfortunately, this will be tough to put into practice, as much as I would like to see what would come of it. Everyone has slightly different stove/vent set-ups, some have OAKs and others do not, some people really keep their stoves clean, while others don't, not to mention the possibility of poor storage of the pellets having some affect on the result.

    Way too many variables, IMO.

    Just my 2 cents.
  13. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    Well if something can't be figured out, It looks like there will be little as far as a review. I know the variables are a big obstacle. I am looking more for how to get around them. If nothing is generalized. We will only get maybe 6 brands from me. Nice if we could see something from our West coast members. I like what Krooser did with the Uncle jeds Doug fur. I also liked what ben in canada did with the brands he had available. If we look at those examples. Maybe we can get something from there test's and bring it to this???

    Also looking for volunteer's to do some of the sampling. Specially the brands I didn't get to last year. Thanks to Pete, I have Cleanfire and Allegany set aside for this year. I also have The liggies hardwood versus the blend. I want to look at the New MWP. Maybe the Inferno's too!

    I know we can do it, We just need to put our heads and efforts together!
  14. gbreda

    gbreda Minister of Fire

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    Hey Jay

    Great Works Biofuels is where I got my Spruce Points this year. Dave carries the MW. He had 6-8 pallets on his truck when he delivered my Spruce on July 3.

    If I can get a few bags from him, I will be glad to test this one and keep an eye out for more brands.

    Geno
  15. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    Thanks G, Much appreciated!

    Even if all we get from it is ash percentage and what fines they have. Its better than nothing. I am sure the batch you get and the one I get will not be the same. This should broaden the snap shot of them.

    I will edit the first post to show what we want to compare.

    List brand and 2 bag burn should do and stove on medium heat.

    1.) Average heat in ºF(optional ????) It could just be a scale: Above average-average or below average????

    2.) Ash volume shown in a mason jar for a nice visual

    3.) Ash wieght and percentage

    4.) fines This could be percentage or volume?

    We can add to this above. I sized the pellets by dia and length, Could be useful? Note if brand has a PFI label. Bag date? I would like to do an estimated burn time, But this will be hard for the people doing a auto start with a stat. 24/7 burners could.

    Any other comments on what could be inspected???
  16. smoke show

    smoke show Guest

    what did krooser do with jeds doug fir ?
  17. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    Sorry it was bear mountain, Check here.

    http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/50756/

    It gave me a look at something I can't get around here.(yes I was drooling the whole time)
  18. smoke show

    smoke show Guest

    jeds doug fir are custom bagged bear mountain.
    so same difference I guess.
    thx 4 the link.
  19. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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  20. WoodPorn

    WoodPorn Minister of Fire

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    Jay,
    As stated in a previous post I will be happy to test what I can with my Englander, we are not too far geographically so I'm not sure what brands I could get that you couldn't.

    Maybe we come up w/a list of brands that are to be tested and see who's got them locally?

    Or maybe members could see what's available locally and post which brands they could test?

    Werm
  21. smwilliamson

    smwilliamson Minister of Fire

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    Sorry, I cannot test either. My work just gets WAY to busy from about next week until April. That said, any official tester who's stove breaks down, I will get replacement parts to ya for cost. :lol:
  22. smwilliamson

    smwilliamson Minister of Fire

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    The bags should also be weighed. I plopped a 40lb bag on a scale once and it was 43.73 thinking it was a fluke I grabbed another bag, it was 42.81...that's 8% more
  23. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    Thanks werm, Even if you could just do a couple of the brands I was going to do. That would let me do a couple of others. Keep me posted on what you can do. I will try to get a list of what I have available locally. We could divvy them up on what easier for each to get with out major hassles. We will figure something out!
  24. jtakeman

    jtakeman Minister of Fire

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    If your serious that is very generous of you!

    I was checking bag weights last year and didn't find any out more than 2%. Pretty easy to do with a bath scale. I will add it to the list.
  25. gbreda

    gbreda Minister of Fire

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    Hey Jay

    Put me down for Winter Warmth. I am picking up 2 bags from Rochester NH. I also would be interested if someone from a different part of the country has access to this brand and can test. This might let us know if HD is bagging locally with different manufacturers.

    Also can test this year's stock on Spruce Point (already have them) and tentatively on Maine's Choice if I can get a few bags from Great Works.
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