Pellet stove as supplemental heat to electric furnace

[SidecarFlip]

Interesting. My buddy has a 'Water Furnace' and his total utility bill for his new raised roof ranch (no basement) is 70 bucks a month all in, winter and summer, summer is ac, winter is heat. Think if I was 20 years younger, I'd have one as well but even at 70 a month I don't believe he can beat my free corn corn burner. 1 skid of pellets ($215) last me the entire heating season November through end of March and the corn is free. I'd say I'm doing good though I still have my +90 condensing furnace (propane) for a backup for those really frigid and windy days when the corn burner cannot quite keep up. Maybe I should purchase a second one, actually considering that.

 

[rickwai]

Interesting. My buddy has a 'Water Furnace' and his total utility bill for his new raised roof ranch (no basement) is 70 bucks a month all in, winter and summer, summer is ac, winter is heat. Think if I was 20 years younger, I'd have one as well but even at 70 a month I don't believe he can beat my free corn corn burner. 1 skid of pellets ($215) last me the entire heating season November through end of March and the corn is free. I'd say I'm doing good though I still have my +90 condensing furnace (propane) for a backup for those really frigid and windy days when the corn burner cannot quite keep up. Maybe I should purchase a second one, actually considering that.

Water Furnace is a good option, but they are expensive upfront. My neighbors was $25k 8 yrs ago.
Last years energy usage for me:
$1502.00 total electric bill includes heating the inground pool to 88F june1-Sept 1 . $.095-.11/kwhr
$403.00 1 propane fill a year
$360.00 2 skid pellets for basement Harman
$450.00 approx for corn upstairs St Croix corn stove
$2715.00/yr. for all of my energy .
It would not make sense to lay out $30k to save a portion of that for me. I did not know my electric rate was that low. The last time I checked it was up around $.13/kwhr. I figured it by taking what what the payment amount was divided by kwhr used. And I keep getting calls about lowering my electric bill

 

[SidecarFlip]

I believe my buddy got a large government rebate when he installed his in his new construction.. Never asked the cost but knowing him and his frugal ways, I'm sure it wasn't even close to that cost.

 

[Dataman]

I have Heat Pump and Pellet Stove. I use the HP until 30f then switch over. 220 per ton for pellets last year not counting 80 delivery. When I get too disabled I will switch to Propane Stove. If I was in your shoes I would get Gas. I use AIMS 1250 Inverter/Charger for Backup for Pellet Stove (12 hours on 200ah). Plus 7k Generator. About 1/2 way thru my Pellets (Started with 4 tons). 2 Months of Use Remaining.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Only less than halfway through my first ton of pellets with 3 more tons in the back of the barn. One ton is usually enough for the entire winter. One ton of pellets, 3 ton of shelled of grade seed corn or 120 bushel @ 50 pounds per at 10% RM. I should end the season with 3 ton of pellets and around 7 ton of shelled corn, all palletized. I'm running the shelled corn I augered into the grain tank this fall. The bagged and palletized stuff stays at 10%RM because all the bags are Tyvec and are moisture barriers. The corn in the grain tank isn't moisture proof so I need to use it first.

Only issue I have and it's not a big issue is, I have to get rid of all the Tyvec sacks. They are not reusable once opened so they wind up on the burn pile and get roasted.

Today, I get to mix up another load of corn and pellets in 4, 30 gallon plastic garbage cans on a skid that I set on the deck when full and bring in the house in a 5 gallon pail to fill the stove.

Problem with corn is the ashes. Corn makes a huge amount of ash so the unit needs a twice a week cleaning and emptying the ash pan. I'd say corn produces about 5 times the ash of pellets.

 

[rickwai]

Only less than halfway through my first ton of pellets with 3 more tons in the back of the barn. One ton is usually enough for the entire winter. One ton of pellets, 3 ton of shelled of grade seed corn or 120 bushel @ 50 pounds per at 10% RM. I should end the season with 3 ton of pellets and around 7 ton of shelled corn, all palletized. I'm running the shelled corn I augered into the grain tank this fall. The bagged and palletized stuff stays at 10%RM because all the bags are Tyvec and are moisture barriers. The corn in the grain tank isn't moisture proof so I need to use it first.

Only issue I have and it's not a big issue is, I have to get rid of all the Tyvec sacks. They are not reusable once opened so they wind up on the burn pile and get roasted.

Today, I get to mix up another load of corn and pellets in 4, 30 gallon plastic garbage cans on a skid that I set on the deck when full and bring in the house in a 5 gallon pail to fill the stove.

Problem with corn is the ashes. Corn makes a huge amount of ash so the unit needs a twice a week cleaning and emptying the ash pan. I'd say corn produces about 5 times the ash of pellets.

I use go thru 1- 11 gallon vac bag in the shop vac per season and empty my ash can maybe 3-4 times per season For the corn stove. I have a galvanized ash can that is maybe 6 gallons? I just dump my pellet stove ash bin out in the yard. Corn ash/clinker I dump in the fence row, it dont spread out in the yard like the pellet ash.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I tried the garden thing one year with not so good results. My vegetables don't care for corn ash. PH was too high after I worked it up. I had to add some lime to the garden to get it under control so now I just dump the ash pan in the driveway. I'm making a nice black strip down the gravel drive... With the pellets, there are no clinkers at all. I use a 12 gallon shop vac with a drywall bag inside and that lasts the entire season. best price I've found for drywall (yellow) bags is Menards. Pellets with corn work as well as oyster shell for me without the white dust but I cannot exceed the 2-1 ratio or I get clinkers.

Tomorrow is mix up the corn and pellet day. On my last 30 gallon trash can of mix. Gives me a good excuse to fire up one of the tractors too. We have a winter weather advisory down here (north of Toledo) for snow turning to rain tomorrow with periods of ice too.

 

[minux]

Hey everyone, new guy here from Wyoming.
As I was Google searching for an answer, this forum kept popping up so I decided to join.
I'm in the process of purchasing a new house and it has an electric forced air furnace. There is no gas line currently to the house. I'm freaking a little anticipating a really high electric bill during the winter. I originally thought about just converting to a gas furnace, but I would have to get the gas company to set a meter and then someone to run the line and hook up the furnace. I'm waiting for quotes to come in now. But, I started thinking that maybe a decent pellet stove would help. I'd basically only run it for a few hours after I get home from work until I went to bed. But as I was pricing pellet stoves yesterday, I was being quoted $4000-$4800 for the stove and an additional $2000 for the install. That's starting to sound as expensive as what I'm anticipating the gas conversion to run. I'm looking for any input and personal experience from you that might be similar. Keep in mind, it can get -40 below here at times. So, cost wise, is it better to convert to gas or get a stove? If this is the wrong forum, I apologize. Thanks in advance for any help.

STOP! LOL, seriously...

Has the duct work been installed yet? DO NOT install ducts / anything for forced air. Get a HE Mini Split and do not worry about any fuels, wood or otherwise. Cheapest BTU going...

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[SidecarFlip]

I'm not even going there.

 

[rickwai]

I'm not even going there.

 

[minux]

OP is in WY. WY is > than -15. Perfect candidate for HE mini-splits.

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Wyoming - Climate and weather forecast by month. Detailed climate information - average monthly weather for all locations.

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[ABMax24]

Cheapest BTU going...

Sorry, but that statement is false in so many areas of North America.

My electricity prices are 5 times that of natural gas on a BTU to BTU basis. Not even the best minisplit on the market operating at it's ideal outside temperature can beat that.

 

[minux]

Sorry, but that statement is false in so many areas of North America.

My electricity prices are 5 times that of natural gas on a BTU to BTU basis. Not even the best minisplit on the market operating at it's ideal outside temperature can beat that.

In America...

 

[SidecarFlip]

I refuse to get in a pissing match over conventional heating versus a TRUE biomass appliance except to say I'd recommend getting a TRUE multifuel burning stove, one that can burn CORN as well as other biomass fuels, in as much as you live in corn country and your accessibility to field corn will be convenient and low priced.

Mini Splits are fine for localized heating and cooling (as in say a bedroom) but aren't ideal for whole house climate control. I have one btw.

 

[ABMax24]

In America...

Wyoming is $8.06/ thousand cubic feet for natural gas, 9.85 cent/kwh. A 95% natural gas furnace and a minisplit with a COP of 3 are almost identical cost per BTU (about $8.22 per million BTU). Now enter winter where the COP drops below 3 and natural gas is still cheaper. I think Wyoming is in America, right?

Have a look at heating across the continent, there is a reason that forced air furnaces are so prevalent in some areas, because they work the best in the colder climates for the cost of install and are cheap to operate. Here 99.9% of houses have forced air natural gas furnaces, I only know of a single house heated by a heat pump, and it's ground sourced, similar issue as the OP owner didn't want to pay the cost of running a natural gas line, the owner is now plagued with $500/month electric bills in the winter. If there were cheaper sources of heat we'd at least see a few houses with other forms of heating.

 

[minux]

Wyoming is $8.06/ thousand cubic feet for natural gas, 9.85 cent/kwh. A 95% natural gas furnace and a minisplit with a COP of 3 are almost identical cost per BTU (about $8.22 per million BTU). Now enter winter where the COP drops below 3 and natural gas is still cheaper. I think Wyoming is in America, right?

Have a look at heating across the continent, there is a reason that forced air furnaces are so prevalent in some areas, because they work the best in the colder climates for the cost of install and are cheap to operate. Here 99.9% of houses have forced air natural gas furnaces, I only know of a single house heated by a heat pump, and it's ground sourced, similar issue as the OP owner didn't want to pay the cost of running a natural gas line, the owner is now plagued with $500/month electric bills in the winter. If there were cheaper sources of heat we'd at least see a few houses with other forms of heating.

Did you see what the OP said?

OP said -

"purchasing a new house and it has an electric forced air furnace"

If I were the OP, I would tell them, no, do not do it and do not want it. Instead, put in a HE mini-split, save the 2' of ceiling height, etc. Cost is the same, if not less, and you have full heating efficiency to -15.

Guaranteed a HE mini-split runs more efficient than an electric forced air furnace.

Mentioning NG forced air furnace is not germane to the conversation at hand.

 

[minux]

I refuse to get in a pissing match over conventional heating versus a TRUE biomass appliance except to say I'd recommend getting a TRUE multifuel burning stove, one that can burn CORN as well as other biomass fuels, in as much as you live in corn country and your accessibility to field corn will be convenient and low priced.

Mini Splits are fine for localized heating and cooling (as in say a bedroom) but aren't ideal for whole house climate control. I have one btw.

Actually, in a whole house situation, HE mini splits are ideal: You run a head for every room, getting full zoned heating and cooling at the room level. How many times do the in-laws come in from FL or MT, saying the bedroom is either too hot or cold? Solved with mini-splits.

 

[SidecarFlip]

In my case that don't pan out. If you read the OP's initial post it states electric forced air so one would presume the ducting is included and if it has a basement, an add on multifuel, corn capable unit would be ideal.

I still don't care for a mini split even though I have one. Lots of external not aesthetically pleasing hardware on the house too.

 

[ABMax24]

Did you see what the OP said?

OP said -

"purchasing a new house and it has an electric forced air furnace"

If I were the OP, I would tell them, no, do not do it and do not want it. Instead, put in a HE mini-split, save the 2' of ceiling height, etc. Cost is the same, if not less, and you have full heating efficiency to -15.

Guaranteed a HE mini-split runs more efficient than an electric forced air furnace.

Mentioning NG forced air furnace is not germane to the conversation at hand.

Please read the entire thread before you continue to post. He later goes on to explain his costs for installing a natural gas line and begins to explore that option as it is more cost effective than the other options.

The house already has forced air, how is he going to save 2ft of ceiling height?

Mini split to resistive isn't the comparison at hand, they already know they want to get rid of resistive heat, being the reason they are exploring pellets, wood, and natural gas.

Mentioning NG is completely relevant since it is a viable option for the OP.

 

[minux]

Please read the entire thread before you continue to post. He later goes on to explain his costs for installing a natural gas line and begins to explore that option as it is more cost effective than the other options.

The house already has forced air, how is he going to save 2ft of ceiling height?

Mini split to resistive isn't the comparison at hand, they already know they want to get rid of resistive heat, being the reason they are exploring pellets, wood, and natural gas.

Mentioning NG is completely relevant since it is a viable option for the OP.

Did the OP buy the house yet? Is it constructed?

 

[minux]

In my case that don't pan out. If you read the OP's initial post it states electric forced air so one would presume the ducting is included and if it has a basement, an add on multifuel, corn capable unit would be ideal.

I still don't care for a mini split even though I have one. Lots of external not aesthetically pleasing hardware on the house too.

I like the ceiling cassettes personally. Look as good as a register - https://www.mitsubishicomfort.com/p...essed-ceiling-cassettes-and-ceiling-suspended

 

[SidecarFlip]

different strokes for different folks. the choice of heating and cooling is always predicated on location and availability and cost of the fuel used..... always.

 

[sloeffle]

Interesting. My buddy has a 'Water Furnace' and his total utility bill for his new raised roof ranch (no basement) is 70 bucks a month all in, winter and summer, summer is ac, winter is heat. Think if I was 20 years younger, I'd have one as well but even at 70 a month I don't believe he can beat my free corn corn burner.

I have a Water Furnace GSHP in my house. IMHO - the heating is okay, the cooling is however excellent. If I was building a house today I would go the dual fuel route. I'd have a high efficiency HP and high efficiency NG / propane furnace.

To answer the OP's question - I'd swap the electric furnace out for a high efficiency HP along with a high efficiency NG furnace. If the cost of NG goes up, you are somewhat shielded because you have a HP. Since you have already have the duct work in place I'd pass on a mini-split. If you have some spare cash later down the road, maybe have a pellet burner installed in your living room so you can keep that area a little warmer than the rest of your house.

Just my 2 cents......