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Pellet stove install, shop says one thing...manual says another.

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by TedNH, Sep 21, 2006.

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  1. TedNH

    TedNH Member

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    Manual for my XXV Harman says I need screws in the vent pipe that attatches to the cast exhaust collar on the back of the stove.
    The shop that I got the stove at tells me its not necessary as the silicone will hold the pipe.
    I was at the shop yesterday and all the stoves in the showroom were assembled without the screws.

    What say ya'll?

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  2. Roospike

    Roospike New Member

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    I would go with what Harman says. Why not use both.
  3. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

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    we use red top silicon, it seals better then screws.
  4. Corie

    Corie Minister of Fire

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    i vote for both.

    Screws to hold, silicon to seal.
  5. TedNH

    TedNH Member

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    I plan on using silicone either way...
  6. Rhone

    Rhone Minister of Fire

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    I've always been under the impression your manual tromps all else. If your manual says screws, you need screws.
  7. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    I would use at least one screw or more if specified. Silicone may seal, but the roof of the big dig fell in partially because it was held with epoxy! A mechanical joint can withstand stress that a sealed one cannot. For instance, a relatively large "wood gas" explosion where a lot of pressure was put on the vent system.

    Also, one of our resident pellet experts says this joint must often be taken apart, and screws (along with minimal silicone) might be easier for long term servicing.

    I'd screw it!
  8. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

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    Corie's suggestion is best. the reason being, pellet exaust is under pressure, if you dont seal the joints ash leaks out over time. Also during a power outage smoke leaks out of them too. So screw and glue if you like. But the glue is a super screw. Funny how different manuals say things, the quad manual states that all joints have to be sealed with silicon.
  9. TedNH

    TedNH Member

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    I guess I will do both, which means I have to drill a hole in the collar. Just not something Im keen on doing.
    Oh well.

    I have also seen "starter" pipes that are made to fit the collars of the stove. Is this just another item to sell us? Cant I just start with the 45* right on the collar of the stove?

    Again, the Harman manual says its not necessary.
  10. Metal

    Metal Minister of Fire

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    Always follow the appliance manufacturer's installation instructions.
  11. Corie

    Corie Minister of Fire

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    So harman requires screws but didn't put holes in the cast collar for you to use them? hrmmmm, that's fishy
  12. TedNH

    TedNH Member

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    I can see why they did it. Having the holes line up with holes in pipe that is made by how many companies? Would make life kinda hard if you asked me.
  13. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

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    look its real simple, buy the stove adapter, then you have a flange to tape the adapter on the collar. Then screw all the other pieces together. If you want to take a extra step and seal them, no inspector is going to cite you for going over and obove what the manual states. The ones we sell, require a air tight connection, therefore we glue i. If you have a clean out T like your supposed to, it realy doesnt matter if you can get the pipe apart, but it does matter to have it removable from the stove. So i recommend hight temp tape there.
  14. GVA

    GVA Minister of Fire

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    I just typed a message and lost it.. Darn Dogs!!!!
    Any way I'll keep it short.... Simpson duravent pipe is a twist lock style pipe it is classified as pellet vent pipe..
    The harman advance manual only covers venting and recommends sealing the joints..
    All joints on my pipe are sealed with Rutland high temp silicone..
    As far as the collar my manual doesn't even discuss this.... The dealertold me to just use the high temp foil tape but too feel a bit safer I used the silicone as well..
    I would be a bit scared about drilling into the cast iron collar though... Any metal that is cast has tendency to weaken and have stress fractures if altered after it's casting.
    If you do drill be careful of the ES Probe

    I would side with the dealer on this one though!!!!!! :)
  15. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    Sorry guys that HVAC tape is good to 160 degrees, then the adheisive becomes soft and useless as a seal. Better than duct tape but not when exposed to heat. There is a fiberglas re enforced good to 200 degrees, still useless when heat exceds 200 degrees
  16. MountainStoveGuy

    MountainStoveGuy Minister of Fire

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  17. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Screw it! RTV is good, but after several years it hardens. It may still seal, but I wouldn't depend on it for holding. Use at least 2 screws mounted with a 90 deg offset. Or 3 screws at 120 deg.
  18. HarryBack

    HarryBack New Member

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    there is a silicone tape as well, I beleive good to 500-600 degrees F, sticks to itself, very pliable, seems to seal well.
  19. webbie

    webbie Seasoned Moderator Staff Member

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    That reminds me of my old method for cleaning out the first generation Pellet stoves. These often had many areas where you could not get to - and the fly ash would build up.

    I brought the stove outside, inserted a leaf blower into the flue, opened the front door and blew away! It definitely did the job, but is probably not part of the recomended procedure.
  20. GVA

    GVA Minister of Fire

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    Hey MSG beat me to it.
    The tape is not the regular hvac tape you get at HD even though they have stuff rated diferently from 150 to 350 degrees. And if someone were to use the 350* stuff on the double walled PV pipe wouldn't this be well above the pipe temp?
  21. elkimmeg

    elkimmeg Guest

    You see, this forum is a good place to get educated. I had no idea tape was rated for that high temp.

    Thanks for the info Hary and MSG and also GVA
  22. HarryBack

    HarryBack New Member

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    yea, Elk, its pretty neat stuff....Ill check at work tomorrow and post the specs of the tape, as well as TrueValue stock numbers so you can eyeball it yourself.....im really only advocating it for pellet vent tho.
  23. GVA

    GVA Minister of Fire

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    Yeah i'm really lost on alot of stuff I read her on the forums too when theres talk about hearthsides and soapstones I have no clue!!!!
    but some people I have talked to that are in the trades like plumbers that are now firefighters will talk about something simple like ng water heaters and how if it is power vented (like a pellet stove) you don't need a draft hood at the top, and runs of pipe as well as the # of elbows allowed per length of pipe per type of system... really lose me
    Like I said alot of the stuff you guys talk about are way out of my scope of thought, but if I can build it better I will thats just what I do, and i've lost a couple of patents to the OEM's too.
    I'm always learning and I'm sure that's one of the biggest reason that I and everyone else comes to this forum on a daily basis (eventhough my wife gets a bit annoyed).

    I just want to say to everyone that this is great and it's nice to learn so much from all of you.. but no matter who you are you will always learn somthing you may not have known before.....

    Now lets go over to TEDNH's and watch the pats game this Sunday on his plasma tv in front of the fire and talk about somthing like what's the best beer... :cheese:

    You guy's rule...........
  24. GVA

    GVA Minister of Fire

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    Hey I can ramble on about stuff and just lost myself on the first part of my last post... :coolgrin:
  25. Shane

    Shane Minister of Fire

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    There was a whitfield dealer here who had a similar method. He devised an adapter on the intake side of the leaf blower. He would brush the stove then attach his blower and suck everything out of the chimney and stove. When they got out of the stove business and we took over the line (and the million warranty services that don't pay worth a crap along with it) he kept trying to sell us the blower as well.
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