Please Help with my Add-On Furnace, Can’t ID it and new to wood burning...

[LelandWard]

As stated above I'm very new to the wood burning gig. I'm heating a 2000sq/ft two story house. I have installed an addon stove that is 27"deep, 21" wide and about 20" tall as far as the firebox goes, so this thing is pretty big. It has 10" legs and sits on the concrete foundation of my block home. I've run the 6" flue through the concrete wall, which is at a contant angle up, nothing completely horizontal. This runs 6' and turnminates up at a 90' another 6'. My house is a gable roof, so its plent far from the roof at this height. My questions are:
-Do you think this will allow for proper draft or should I go higher
-Stove is 2' from one wall, the back corner nearest to the firemat is about 1' and that front corner about 1.5' from wall.
-How would you treat the walls for fire safety, I haven't started this thing full time yet and can do anything needed to the walls of this furnace room.
-I lit the stove and the room went from 60'F to 115'F in a couple hrs and didn't rise above that, that was with the 8" duct pipe not installed into my return, is this safe?
*I'm very new and i've done a lot of research, but there's only so much without real life experience. I've got seasoned hardwood to burn, and eagar to do this the right way. What sort of thimble for going through a block wall, pipe is standard black single wall from Tractor Supply. It runs under my return (10" is the closest it gets) and this should provide some heat for the incoming return air that is being supplied by the stove. Please let me know what you think of this setup and what I should change so I can get it done before the extreme cold sets in...
*Another thing, my stove has a box on the top rear that is conected to what seems to be a damper door by a metal draw cord. There is conduit running to this and into an electrical box where. I assume this is supposed to be some sort of "auto" damper, but its rusted to bits and i've just installed a damper into the flue, will I be ok to weld this one shut? Anyone know where a replacement could be found if its worth replacing? Thanks and here are some pictures for identification of the stove as there is no numbers, letters, or anything on it ANYWHERE!

Pipe going through the block wall, any thinble rec. with link?

The electric damper box?

 

[laynes69]

Can't give you a manufacturer, almost looks homemade. If there's no tag or the unit hasn't been tested I would check with the insurance company. I believe the furnace needs 18" of clearance from combustibles. Also what do you have for a chimney? 6' of rise is not enough. Just from the description is does not sound safe. Most furnaces have safety's built in and other various controls.
If not everything is operating properly I wouldn't use the furnace. Better safe than sorry. Could you post some pics of the chimney outside, and maybe some larger pics of the black box. I'm curious what it could be.

 

[LelandWard]

Thanks for your input. I've given up on trying to id it as far as by eye, was hoping someone here could give an idea. I don't have a chimeny, simply 6" pipe straight up about 6' above the 1st slope on my gable roof. I would assume the pipe is 2' from the roof at its closest place and only gets farther away the higher up it goes. I can simply add another 4-6' of pipe straight up if need be. The pipe comes out an 8" hole in the block wall, i'm putting a thimble in this weekend, then 90's up about 1' from the house, but its pretty much at the roof edge up against the metal gutter.I assume with 0-30'F temps or colder this pipe will never get hot enough outside to burn anything. Should I go with double wall outside to aid in "draft" so the pipe doesn't lose heat and still maintain draft in the cold months? I will get some better pic's of the outside and the black box. Leland

 

[jeff_t]

Thanks for your input. I've given up on trying to id it as far as by eye, was hoping someone here could give an idea. I don't have a chimeny, simply 6" pipe straight up about 6' above the 1st slope on my gable roof. I would assume the pipe is 2' from the roof at its closest place and only gets farther away the higher up it goes. I can simply add another 4-6' of pipe straight up if need be. The pipe comes out an 8" hole in the block wall, i'm putting a thimble in this weekend, then 90's up about 1' from the house, but its pretty much at the roof edge up against the metal gutter.I assume with 0-30'F temps or colder this pipe will never get hot enough outside to burn anything. Should I go with double wall outside to aid in "draft" so the pipe doesn't lose heat and still maintain draft in the cold months? I will get some better pic's of the outside and the black box. Leland

:gulp:

Yeah, man. You need a class A chimney, something like this http://www.duravent.com/Product.aspx?hProduct=1. Insurance co definitely wouldn't like to see a single wall stove pipe for a chimney.

Also look at NFPA211, for information regarding clearances, if you have no idea of manufacturer and no manual. You can view the 2010 edition from the NFPA website.

 

[begreen]

From the pictures it looks like the flue connector is going to lose a lot of heat and may not draft well. Clearances to combustibles must be at least 18" for the full run and the horiz. section should be no more than 4 ft and pitched upward all the way to the thimble at least 1/4" per foot. More pitch would be even better. Double wall, connector pipe even better yet.

The downsized pictures are not good enough for my eyes to pick out details. I want to see the thimble and the damper control much better.

 

[jeff_t]

BG, if I'm reading the posts right, it sounds like it's ALL connector pipe. Like to see some pictures.

 

[begreen]

I am hoping not. If it is, we have a potential barn burner here.

For sure Lee, don't light another fire before we see the whole picture. Your concerns for safety are warranted.

And welcome to Hearth.com. You did the right thing by checking in here for guidance.

 

[laynes69]

I figured it was stove pipe instead of class a, that why I wanted pictures of the outside. I would not burn the furnace. No matter the distance away the pipe is from the home, you cannot assume it will be safe. You need class a pipe and a proper thimble, but even then the furnace and ductwork may not have the proper clearances. Has the furnace been inspected? Warping, cracking?

 

[LelandWard]

You are right, I have come here to make sure its done right, i'll order Class A pipe for the outside (it was my intent), and should be able to get a better slope for draft simply by adjusting the angle piece of the stove, make it more of a 45' instead of a slightly over 90', 1/4" per/ft is the guide i'll follow. Is it ok to use "connector pipe" inside leading to the thimble? I've asked several times for thimble recomendations for 6" pipe here. Any good sites or ones you guys prefer? So outside needs to be Class A and I assume since there is 1' of siding behind the pipe now that I won't have issues with possibly melting the siding with the class A. I do have connector pipe outside, just to check the draft and see if the application would operate in the current condition, but intended to replace the outside pipe with the stainless class A and keep the connector pipe indoors, any issues with this? I'll get the pic's, and don't plan on any other fires, the only one I did was to check the indoor operation of the stove. I checked it outdoors prior, but it doesn't leak inside other than when I started it, or added wood obviously. It does like to leak out of that hole in the back that is for the damper. I'll get pic's of all this up soon tho. I'm rethinking using this add-on inside and may use it in the shop instead and get myself a Hot-Blast stove add-on. Any thoughts on them?

 

[jeff_t]

Good, I was worried for a minute.
Not sure about where to get a thimble, but you can get Selkirk's Supervent pipe at Menards fairly cheap. I used Selkirk MetalBest from dynamitebuys.com. Also, keep in mind that a chimney must penetrate the roof at least 3' (not an issue if it's external), and be at least 2' higher than any point of the roof within 10'. That can mean a pretty tall chimney with a barn roof.
As for the Hotblast, it's ok. It makes a lot of heat and does a good job of keeping us warm, but it burns a lot of wood. I'm in the middle of putting a stove in the living room right now. Looking to reduce wood consumption and extend burntimes, and not have to run to the basement all the time. It's what I could afford at the time, and it's done it's job. I'm ready to move up.

 

[LelandWard]

Jeff_t: Would you be interested in selling yours? I've located an almost new one here local in Ohio for $800. I'm thinking thats the safest way to go in the long run, as mine is going to go through wood very fast as well, the one time I started it to check it out it was going through the wood like crazy, but rose the temp in the house from 60'F to 76'F in only an hour! So I like the add-on idea. Another thing, is your Hotblast ducted into the return or the supply duct?
*ALL, here is a link on Amazon for a through the wall kit, comes with the thimble, t pipe for cleanout, the top hat, and all the strapping, i'd simply order 12' of class a pipe and be done with it around $500 total! Seems very reasonable. Here's the kit link:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LNLQ4A/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me;=&seller;=
*The pipe I intend to order if I don't find the Selkirk MetalBest Jeff suggested
http://www.amazon.com/6x48-SS-Pipe-Lock-Band/dp/B000RF3TC4/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_b

 

[jeff_t]

You have to run it to the supply. If you run it into the return, the blower motor on your gas/oil furnace won't last very long. They are made to be fed cool air, not hot. I'm fortunate that the blowers on the wood furnace do the job for me most of the time. Chilly weather, say single digits and windy, I run the fan on my gas furnace for a little boost. There are other facets to installation as well, like anti-backdraft dampers and such. There's another forum here, The Boiler Room, that's devoted to central heating. When you get to that point, you'll likely find more help there.
I'm going to unhook the ducts, but leave it in the basement for now. Whenever I do anything down there, I'm used to it being toasty

 

[begreen]

I know that this is going to sound a little radical, but maybe it would be a good idea to stop for a moment, take a deep breath, and start from the beginning before spending any more money. The point being that we may be of the best assistance by backing up and looking at the big picture here. It's hard to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, so I think it would be a good idea to look at the overall problem that is trying to be solved and what is the best solution.

If you are game let's start with getting us up to date with the facts at hand:

1) How large is the house or area that you want to heat?
2) Describe the house. How many stories, how well insulated? Open floorplan or lots of small rooms?
3) What is the current heating system? Is it functioning well? Are you dead set on hooking up a wood furnace?
4) Would you be opposed to having a stove on the first floor? This might be a cost savings and would give you the added pleasure of a nice fire to view.
5) Do you have a good stash (3 cords or more) of dry seasoned firewood on hand?
6) How much do you have invested in this wood furnace?

 

[LelandWard]

1.House is about 1700sq/ft
2.2 stories, 3 br/1 bath upstairs, large living room (300+sq/ft), kitchen/Dining room, br and bath downstairs. Downstairs un-insulated, upstairs insulated.
3. Currently using electric heat with very nice coil that is very expensive to use. Not interested in going with a heatpump or using the electric other than backup.
4.Stove is on the first floor in a furnace room between the dining and bedroom. Accessable through a doorway inside the br. No door though.
5.wood is accessable, but must be purchased this year. Didn't get anything cut.
6.Don't have a lot invested until I buy the Class at pipe/T/thimble and supports for the outside.

 

[begreen]

Leland, I am really relieved that you want to do this safely and are open minded to the best solutions. You do have options.

Investigate your home layout to at least consider going straight up with the chimney system. This could be for the furnace or for a free-standing stove. Based on the description, either would heat the house well. However, a stove in the main living area will provide additional comfort and a nice fireview. (better than TV many nights ). A straight up chimney might be less costly and visually more attractive. An interior chimney will draft better and stay cleaner. It would need to be enclosed upstairs, but this is not complicated. It sounds like you will have enough height on your chimney to go either exterior or interior, so this is your choice.

If you are interested in a stove, let us know and we will make suggestions. If you still want a furnace I would look at the:

HotBlast by US stove. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200435189_200435189
The Englander 50-TRW35 - http://www.overstockstoves.com/50adwofu3sqf.html

Another company to call about wood furnaces would be Obidiahs:
http://www.discountstoves.net/Discount_Wood_Furnaces_s/38.htm

 

[LelandWard]

I like the Hotblast a lot, but i'd love a glass door, which the TR35 offers. I essentially have a furnace just like these, with the acception it is all manual, meaning there aren't any controls, just feed the hell out of it. I was home all day yesterday so I started the stove. I wanted to see how well it heated through my ductwork. Needless to say it did extremely well. I ducted it into my main supply 2' off the furnace. The blower on the stove isn't enough to get the air out of the ducting but when I turn the furnace on 'fan' mode it heated the entire house very well with the main floor being over 80'F I was playing around with the damper in the flue trying to figure out the best position without making the stove "smoke" and it seems to like it around 10 o'clock when its hot. Things I don't like about the stove are:
1. the door isn't sealed, so I bought the 1/2" rope seal to take care of that
2. The flue rise going through the wall needs increased, I believe it will help with draft as the beginning of the fire start was smokey.
3. I still don't know what the door flap in the back is for, i'm thinking of welding it shut because it makes me nervous.
4. I need a room to room fan from the furnace room that blows into the cold dining room to relieve heat buildup in the furnace room when the stove is hot
*I like this stove, and feel I started to get it figured out yesterday. I won't burn it when I'm not home to tend to it. I'll be doing the class a pipe outside and hopefully that with an increase in the rise going through the wall will help more with draft. Stove is fine when its warmed up, just the beginning is a bit rough.

That said, I'd like to get a Hotblast next. They are more "automated" and thats really what I want because the fiance is clueless. I want something she can keep fed as well and not have to worry about. I like the cost of the Hotblast but its essentially the same thing I have just a lot nicer and more efficient. Any reviews or input on the Hotblast?

 

[begreen]

Search in the boiler room for HotBlast reports.