Plumbing advice for moving sink drain

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willworkforwood

Feeling the Heat
Jan 20, 2009
465
Central Ma
I'm designing the changes required for installing a much deeper, under mount kitchen sink. The difference in height where the tail pipe makes contact with the sink is 7" down from where it is. So one of the things that will need to happen is getting a new sanitary tee installed into the existing pipe, in order to move the drain down. I've opened up the wall where the current tee is, and have some questions for the plumbing pros and semi-pros.

1) There is an elbow at the counter floor level (at the bottom of pic #1), and it feels fairly snug there around the counter framing. So I'm not sure how much this pipe will be willing to drop down. If I can't get pipe to drop down the 1.5" or so that I need to get the new tee in, is there any specialty fitting available to handle something like this? This is a catch-22, because I won't know how much it will move before cutting, and so I would like to be prepared if it doesn't want to move down far enough. I suppose the tie holding the top section could be cut, and attempt to move it up, but don't want to do that unless there is no other choice (don't want to cause new problems on the second floor).

2) I've never done drains, and am just assuming I can copy the existing pipe/trap, giving it the required 1/4 in 12 pitch - any issues with this?

3) The sink will be under mounted to a granite countertop, and I want to get the sink installed (functional) in the exact location I think it should be in, so that they can get their measurements for cutting the countertop precise. But I'm concerned that they may say it needs to be moved forward or backward, and don't want the drain glued and fixed in place so that even 1/2" movement might be impossible. So I was thinking about using a couple of threaded connectors somewhere along the way, in order to make a small adjustment possible. Is this the best way to handle something like this - any better ideas?

4) I could cap the existing tee, or possibly send the dishwasher drain hose into it to make the sink drain simpler, and reduce the possibility of siphon back. I would guess a trap is required for that, along with a dishwasher hose adapter coupling? It seems like that would be a better choice than bringing it into the sink drain as it was originally done (not shown in pic #2). Any problem with 2 close tees like this. There is also a shower on the second floor coming into this line, which would make 3 feeds, but it wouldn't actually be a "new" input that wasn't there previously.

I would appreciate comments from anyone having experience with this stuff, including things that I might be missing that will bite me in a bad place.
 

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The fitting in the bottom plate isn't likely to move.

The upper tee should be cut out and replaced with a coupling.

Leave the dishwasher drain alone or re-connect it as it was before, if it works don't fix it.

Traps (drains) for sinks are never installed before the sink is installed, this makes no sense at all, especialy if to do so involves the use of additional fittings.

The only thing you want to do beforehand is stub the tee out of the wall at the correct height.

Cut the pipe to fit into the bottom of where the tee will be.

Cut the old tee out. Since neither the upper nor the lower pipe is likely to move much, you can use a "slip" coupling where the upper tee was.

The new setup will be from the bottom up, a tee, a short length of pipe, a slip coupling. Use cleaner and suitable glue. (there are many varieties).

Installing the trap is easy. The swivel effect of the two piece trap enables plenty of movement to make sure things line up.
 
Dune said:
.... Traps (drains) for sinks are never installed before the sink is installed, this makes no sense at all, especialy if to do so involves the use of additional fittings. .... Installing the trap is easy. The swivel effect of the two piece trap enables plenty of movement to make sure things line up.
Dune, your information and suggestions are very much appreciated! I didn't explain this very well. I was definitely planning on installing the sink first, followed by the trap/drain. But I'll be doing all of this prior to the granite countertop, and then they will custom cut based on the location of the sink. So I was trying to allow for the possibility that the counter guys suggest a small fore/aft adjustment, but also have a fully functioning sink until the countertop cutting and installation is complete. You mentioned the "swivel effect of the two piece trap", but in the current drain plumbing there is only one pivot in the 2" pipe assembly, and I can't get any fore/aft adjustment from that one alone. Are these always supposed to have 2 pivots, and it just wasn't done correctly by the original plumber? If that's the case, then what you're saying makes complete sense to me. Excuse my ignorance on this - I've just never needed to do any work on drains. Your suggestion to cut out the existing tee and replace with a single new tee, short pipe, and a slip coupling is very helpful, and will make it easy for me to accomplish that part of the job.
 
there are rubber fittings called "fernco's" that offer some flexibility. it is basically a piece of rubber with two hose clamps. home depot, lowes etc have them in the plumbing dept. as far as two axis adjustablilty it appears that the elbow in pic 2 is glued - you can get different styles of fittings for going into traps. h.d. and L will have those as well. 1 1/2" has more selection so I would try to avoid 1 1/4 if you can. There are also some good books at both places that will have plenty of pics in them. I have always found that type of thing to be helpful when planning or laying out things for different projects that I am not an "expert" at. Good luck and enjoy those new countertops.
 
willworkforwood said:
You mentioned the "swivel effect of the two piece trap", but in the current drain plumbing there is only one pivot in the 2" pipe assembly, and I can't get any fore/aft adjustment from that one alone. .

Yes, one swivel which gives you a target several inches wide to aim at from the tee. You can buy fittings from 22.5, 30, 45, 60 and 90 degrees of bend, and use them in combination if you need to.

Lengthening or shortening the "nipple" between the tee and first fitting will also alter where the pipe ends up.

You just have to get it close enough that yu can swivel the trap around till it lines up.
 
It's interesting that when you know the name of something to do a search on (slip coupling), a whole lot of information pops up, including Fernco and No Hub. It sounds like each of those three could work for this task. I'll read a bit more and then give one of them a shot. And the 2 pivots on the trap assembly will provide the flexibility to adjust the sink a bit if needed.
Thanks a bunch guys - your input has been really helpful, saving me a lot of time, and probably a mistake or two. Like always, Hearth members are the best!
 
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