Propane company insists propane is cheaper than electric water heater

[Jotel me this]

Anyone ever have their propane company try to convince you propane is cheaper than electric? Years ago I had my propane water heater converted to electric because the pilot light /usage was draining my tank ridiculously fast. At the time, I was new to being on propane so I called the propane company. The rep gave me endless statistics, crunched numbers, and tried to convince me not to switch to an electric water heater because my electricity cost would skyrocket more than the cost of filling a tank of propane.

Years later tracking the cost like a mad scientist, Ive come to the conclusion that my electric bill barely increased and my propane bill has dropped dramatically. My propane WH was using 1.4 gallons of propane per day! I would recommend anyone to convert to electric. Regardless of what the current prices of propane was at the time, I simply cannot find any circumstance in which my electric bill could ever be more than the cost of filling up a propane tank.

What are your thoughts?

 

[peakbagger]

At 25 cents a KW plus transmission cost and other added on costs for power in NH, propane is probably cheaper right now.

I thought standing pilot lights were banned by this point? Thats the killer for something like propane.

I think I will stick to solar hot water for 9 months a year and wood fired hot water the rest of the year

 

[brenndatomu]

I guarantee that my electric HPWH costs much less to run than an LP WH...especially at our $0.11 to 0.12¢ electric rate...but even when we had a standard electric I bet it was still cheaper...but I suppose current local LP and power rates might dictate which one gets pushed into the winners circle though...

 

[rwh63]

Anyone ever have their propane company try to convince you propane is cheaper than electric? Years ago I had my propane water heater converted to electric because the pilot light /usage was draining my tank ridiculously fast. At the time, I was new to being on propane so I called the propane company. The rep gave me endless statistics, crunched numbers, and tried to convince me not to switch to an electric water heater because my electricity cost would skyrocket more than the cost of filling a tank of propane.

Years later tracking the cost like a mad scientist, Ive come to the conclusion that my electric bill barely increased and my propane bill has dropped dramatically. My propane WH was using 1.4 gallons of propane per day! I would recommend anyone to convert to electric. Regardless of what the current prices of propane was at the time, I simply cannot find any circumstance in which my electric bill could ever be more than the cost of filling up a propane tank.

What are your thoughts?

finding 1.4 gal/day hard to believe. is it a super large tank, and did you have it set to hottest level? even then....

i have a standing pilot tank from the '80s, and i leave it set to warm. when i need hotter water, i just turn it up and wait 15 minutes, then set it back to warm.

 

[tlc1976]

finding 1.4 gal/day hard to believe. is it a super large tank, and did you have it set to hottest level? even then....

i have a standing pilot tank from the '80s, and i leave it set to warm. when i need hotter water, i just turn it up and wait 15 minutes, then set it back to warm.

Same here. I have a propane water heater, kitchen stove, clothes dryer, 8kw Generac, and boiler. Well same except I don’t change the setting. It could be a little hotter in the dead of winter, but it’s plenty hot in summer.

1985 boiler just runs a pilot for 4 months a year as a backup to the pellet stove. Water heater from 2018 has standing pilot, but there was no noticeable difference from the previous equivalent 1985 unit. Generac runs a few days a year overall. A full load of laundry a week. Only really use the stove/oven on the weekends and holidays.

And with all that, I go 2 years on 400 gallons of propane, or about 1/2 gallon a day. When I had a GF and 3 teenage girls here too, it lasted 1 year, or 1 gallon a day.

My old house was 100% electric and wood, since my furnace was bad until I sold the place. Same electric company and rate as today. About 10 or 11 cents a kWh. And my bill was the same or less than the electric bill here. And the water heater was full of rust and on its last leg too, reduced capacity so I had it turned up hot. Only real difference overall was no well pump.

So I agree that with a low electric rate, an electric water heater could be economical. However I think there’s something up with your last one. Set too high, or maybe even a slow leak in a regulator or line? My dad had that, his tank would slowly drain through a slow leak in a regulator outside. It was like pulling teeth to get the propane company to fix it, since it wasn’t really a safety issue and they made more money off him by not fixing it.

I’d always be skeptical of someone trying to push you into buying something when they are to profit off it. Do your own independent study. As you have done.

 

[jblnut]

My electric water heater uses on average 240kwh/month. $0.17/kwh cost for electricity puts it at a touch over $40/month.

$2ish/gal propane cost says it'd cost a little under $20/month if it takes a little under 9gal/month. 240kwh is roughly 3,412btus/kwh so 818,880btus/month used. 91,500btus/gal of propane says 18ish gallons of LP/month.

So for me propane is half the cost of electric to heat my water. I didn't want the hassle of venting an LP water heater in our new house so we went with an electric one. I have an Emporia Energy monitor on the house panel so the 240kwh/month is accurate. Your milage may vary ....

 

[EatenByLimestone]

It’s easy enough to figure out, you just need to compare apples to apples. Convert each bill into cost per btu. To make it fair, use the pay at the bottom amount after all fees and taxes have been added in.

Electric was 6x more expensive than natural gas last time I worked the numbers.

 

[Highbeam]

It’s easy enough to figure out, you just need to compare apples to apples. Convert each bill into cost per btu. To make it fair, use the pay at the bottom amount after all fees and taxes have been added in.

Electric was 6x more expensive than natural gas last time I worked the numbers.

This used to be easy to do with the handy hearth.com fuel cost calculator but they disabled that so you need to go to another website for their fuel cost calculator. I like the one at coalpail.com.

Propane can be cheaper for heating water depending on the efficiency of the water heater and the cost of each fuel in your area.

 

[Brian26]

The latest heat pump water heaters are 4x more efficient than any fossil fuel source. And they can be powered from renewable energy...

There is a lot to be excited about with the new Voltex AL. First off, it has incredible efficiency. The Voltex is one of the most efficient water heaters on the market, with a Uniform Energy Factor (UEF) of up to 4.02 (that means for every unit of energy you put in, you get four units of heat out). To put that in context, gas water heaters are typically 0.60, instant gas water heaters are 0.81, and electric water heaters are 0.92.

All I Want For Christmas Is A New Voltex AL Heat Pump Water Heater - CleanTechnica

Christmas is a New Voltex AL Heat Pump Water Heater Heat pump water heaters (HPWHs) are a key technology for a zero-emissions, 21st century.

cleantechnica.com

 

[Kiotick4010]

Propane boiler with a drw loop that I haven’t got around to hooking up yet, propane stove, propane hanging heater in the garage, propane boiler supplemented by another propane hanging heater in the shop.

Also a wood stove in the living room and another in the garage.

We installed a heat pump water heater a few years ago, maybe five or six now. Works great, and dehumidifies the basement, so we no longer run an energy sucking dehumidifier. Our electric rates are about $.24/kWh, so, depending on the propane price, there’s probably not much difference until you factor in the cost of running a dehumidifier. Then electric heat pump water heater is a pure win, energy cost wise.

The heat pump does keep the basement pretty cool, but we go to Az for the winter now and shut it down until spring, so that’s not a factor.

The heat pump water heater cost all of $50 after the utility company rebates.

 

[kborndale]

Even with my solar panels I still keep my gas powered water heater. The power doesn't go out much, but when it does go out for a few days it sure is nice being able to take a hot shower. Of course this only works being on the water grid and wouldn't work if on a well.

 

[velvetfoot]

See if this works. It's the old EIA spreadsheet I scavenged off the web.

 

[rwh63]

last propane drop was at $4.49/gal, up $1 from about a month ago.

 

[BoiledOver]

last propane drop was at $4.49/gal, up $1 from about a month ago.

That is what why we swapped to a gasification boiler for home and shop heating. Propane prices are like roller coasters.

Haven't seen mention of standby losses. Propane sends heat up the chimney 24/7, electric has no chimney. A thoroughly insulated electric water heater tank will sit for many hours on standby drawing zero current and hold temperature. For most of my life I thought electric water heat to be ridiculous due to price, since swapping over I am sold on the theory. Two benefits to electric are: 1) less standby loss 2) way cooler in that area during the summer.

Still running the clothes dryer and kitchen stove with propane here. Three hundred gallon refills look to be about 5 years apart. With the furnace and water heater online, propane refills were 3 times per year.

 

[Kiotick4010]

Heat only goes up the chimney 24/7 if you have a standing pilot, and both my boilers (shop and house) are 95%efficient condensing boilers.

A gasification system is useless unless you’re there to tend it. I am 2100 miles away from the house and shop for six months of the year. The propane company keeps the tank full, and the nest thermostat is connected to my wife’s phone, so we always know everything is functioning. If something goes wrong, there’s electric backup heat to keep things from freezing until someone can get there to resolve the issue.

I heat the house with wood from September to late October or early November, and again from late April until Memorial day. In the meantime, we let the NG furnace run a couple hours per week here in Az for December and January.

 

[tlc1976]

Heat only goes up the chimney 24/7 if you have a standing pilot, and both my boilers (shop and house) are 95%efficient condensing boilers.

A gasification system is useless unless you’re there to tend it. I am 2100 miles away from the house and shop for six months of the year. The propane company keeps the tank full, and the nest thermostat is connected to my wife’s phone, so we always know everything is functioning. If something goes wrong, there’s electric backup heat to keep things from freezing until someone can get there to resolve the issue.

I heat the house with wood from September to late October or early November, and again from late April until Memorial day. In the meantime, we let the NG furnace run a couple hours per week here in Az for December and January.

I was thinking the same thing at first about heat loss when lit. But unless the chimney has a valve to block it when it’s not running, there will always be a flue effect, drawing heat off the tank and up the chimney.

 

[BoiledOver]

Heat only goes up the chimney 24/7 if you have a standing pilot, and both my boilers (shop and house) are 95%efficient condensing boilers.

A gasification system is useless unless you’re there to tend it. I am 2100 miles away from the house and shop for six months of the year. The propane company keeps the tank full, and the nest thermostat is connected to my wife’s phone, so we always know everything is functioning. If something goes wrong, there’s electric backup heat to keep things from freezing until someone can get there to resolve the issue.

I heat the house with wood from September to late October or early November, and again from late April until Memorial day. In the meantime, we let the NG furnace run a couple hours per week here in Az for December and January.

We use what works for us here and you know what works for you too. As far as the standing pilot theory, I disagree. At best, the chimney only draws room air out and worse it pulls heat away from the heated water. With or without the lit pilot. We can agree to disagree.