Proper venting question

[gnroganti]

Hi, I'm brand new to this forum and have a new Breckwell Sonora Insert stove. We have not completed our install yet due to the lack of proper pellet venting pipes in my area...who would have ever thought that I couldn't find the proper venting here in the Memphis area??? You can buy the pellets at several places but no PL piping. Anyway...we have the wall thimble and a 12" pipe already installed(dura-vent pellet pipes)...horizontal through the wall installation. We were not able to provide any upward installation of the piping due to the positioning of the current firebox in a corner setting (used to be a ventless gas log system).

Apparently the piping we were using before was the wrong kind...we had an issue with the unit quitting after about 15-20 minutes...the fan blower went out and then the smoke was blown into the house. Is this due to our straight horizontal installation at all?? We are hoping it was due to the overheating in our firebox due to the incorrect pipes...we had used the B gas double-lined pipes which we realize now that they cannot be used for this type of stove.

At one time after we tried it again, after about 15 minutes I had opened the sliding glass door which is about 4 feet away from the stove, and the stove went out again blowing smoke into the house...it almost seemed as though the "draft" from opening the door caused this...any thoughts?

Also, there are two OPEN holes on the underside of the front part of the stove...looks to be where the legs would screw in if you chose to put on legs....the way we have it installed doesn't require a hearth underneath or legs...would these open holes cause a problem? Do they need to be sealed?

Have read some negative things about the horizontal venting. We can add additional pipes that rise on the outside of the house if necessary. Any input or thoughts from anyone on this would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[krooser]

The horizontal install is fine... mine works flawlessly. But there will be smoke in the house if you lose power to the stove. You can use a Universal Power Supply to power the stove while the power is out or to allow you to properly shut off the stove until you regain power. I haven't had a power outtage here for many years... cross my fingers.

The vent will not cause the stove to shut down.. unless the stove/vent is plugged with ash and soot.

Many folks in those areas where this are frequent power outages will use a vertical rise... usually about 4 to 5' and cap it with some kind of PL vent cap.

Is your home new construction and air tight? Just wondering if an outside air kit (OAK) would help you out... just thinking out loud here.

Let's see if some other members have some ideas...

 

[cncpro]

Hi, I'm brand new to this forum and have a new Breckwell Sonora Insert stove. We have not completed our install yet due to the lack of proper pellet venting pipes in my area...who would have ever thought that I couldn't find the proper venting here in the Memphis area??? You can buy the pellets at several places but no PL piping. Anyway...we have the wall thimble and a 12" pipe already installed(dura-vent pellet pipes)...horizontal through the wall installation. We were not able to provide any upward installation of the piping due to the positioning of the current firebox in a corner setting (used to be a ventless gas log system).

Apparently the piping we were using before was the wrong kind...we had an issue with the unit quitting after about 15-20 minutes...the fan blower went out and then the smoke was blown into the house. Is this due to our straight horizontal installation at all?? We are hoping it was due to the overheating in our firebox due to the incorrect pipes...we had used the B gas double-lined pipes which we realize now that they cannot be used for this type of stove.

At one time after we tried it again, after about 15 minutes I had opened the sliding glass door which is about 4 feet away from the stove, and the stove went out again blowing smoke into the house...it almost seemed as though the "draft" from opening the door caused this...any thoughts?

Also, there are two OPEN holes on the underside of the front part of the stove...looks to be where the legs would screw in if you chose to put on legs....the way we have it installed doesn't require a hearth underneath or legs...would these open holes cause a problem? Do they need to be sealed?

Have read some negative things about the horizontal venting. We can add additional pipes that rise on the outside of the house if necessary. Any input or thoughts from anyone on this would be appreciated.

Thanks.

A properly functioning pellet stove should stay lit with horizontal pipe or vertical pipe, or even no pipe at all. If your stove won't stay lit (even with the wrong pipe) there is something else wrong. Of course I recommend getting the correct pipe so you don't die from CO poisoning but this couldn't be caused from the wrong type of pipe.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Welcome to the forum gnroganti,

Could you tell us about your damper setting, weather or not you have an OAK hooked up, how tight your house is in terms of drafts, and what if any fans or air sucking devices you have in the house?

I'm a very nosy Bear and I'm trying to scope out any air supply issues as well as plan my next picnic basket heist.

I'll download a manual for that stove later, but for now could you check those holes you are concerned about and tell us if they provide an opening into the ash pan area?

 

[gnroganti]

My home was built in 2007 and I believe it is pretty air tight. I am not using an OAK...never heard of that until now. The two holes are located in the bottom of the ash pan area and when I looked there was a small amount of smoke coming out of the holes into the room air(once it shut down)....doesn't sound right to me...thinking they need to be sealed since I am not using any legs. The damper setting was set all the way or close to being all the way open at the time. I didn't have any fans running at the time. I really think that my thermal switches were detecting too much heat in the firebox and shut the blower off, because there is about 2 feet of piping running alongside the back of the stove as it exits the house...we couldn't run it straight back and out...we think that it go too hot since we were using the wrong piping and then it just shut down to prevent overheating in the firebox. Does this make sense?

As for the 2 holes in the front of the stove underneath...not sure if thy are supposed to be left open or not. Thanks everyone for your help so far.

 

[cncpro]

It's possible that the overheating theory is true. I'm thinking that an easy way to know for sure would be to fire it up outside while you have the stove removed to correct the venting issue.

As far as the holes in the bottom...

It could be that the smoke was from the combustion chamber in which case I'd probably plug them by screwing a bolt and washer with some silicone into it.

It is also possible that the smoke was not from the combustion chamber and was really just the paint and manufacturing residues burning off of internal surfaces of the stove. This would stop smoking after the stove gets broken-in (run good and hot for a few days)...

There also seems to be some adjustable height legs available that could be added to fill those holes according to the manual...

Since you're replacing a gas unit with this pellet unit I have to ask... Are you sure you've observed all the required clearances for the installation of this stove ? Pellet units have dramatically different requirements than gas.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

My home was built in 2007 and I believe it is pretty air tight. I am not using an OAK...never heard of that until now. The two holes are located in the bottom of the ash pan area and when I looked there was a small amount of smoke coming out of the holes into the room air(once it shut down)....doesn't sound right to me...thinking they need to be sealed since I am not using any legs. The damper setting was set all the way or close to being all the way open at the time. I didn't have any fans running at the time. I really think that my thermal switches were detecting too much heat in the firebox and shut the blower off, because there is about 2 feet of piping running alongside the back of the stove as it exits the house...we couldn't run it straight back and out...we think that it go too hot since we were using the wrong piping and then it just shut down to prevent overheating in the firebox. Does this make sense?

As for the 2 holes in the front of the stove underneath...not sure if thy are supposed to be left open or not. Thanks everyone for your help so far.

If those holes do not directly or indirectly penetrate the stoves fire box (that is where the burn pot is) your ash pan is part of the fire box there will be no need to block them, it would never hurt to plug them with the bolts from the legs. The manual will speak to that matter (and it does), you must follow the manuals install instructions to the letter as in almost all places that is what code requires. The insurance company will also insist that the installation is to code or they'll just cancel your policy, that could lead to your mortgage holder starting foreclosure actions. You are obligated to maintain insurance on the home as part of the mortgage. You'll get a warning and best you act fast on it.

If the thermals are shutting the feed off both fans should continue to run until the stove loses proof of fire. If the auger stops and one or more of the blowers stop you have several things to consider.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Now, that stove requires sufficient air to both burn properly and to cool the stove via the convection system.

If the stove isn't getting enough room air to stop it from thermaling off you need to make certain that the air flow to the convection fan isn't blocked this means that air has to get past the stove and around to the convection fan.

If the burn is being affected it means that you'll likely need to hook up an outside air kit and get your combustion air from outside of the house.

You should make certain that all air intakes for the stove are not blocked.

When you get the right vent on the stove fire it up and closely watch the stove, you are looking for the sequence of what happens when the fire starts dieing (by closely watching I mean you do not leave the room and you listen to the fans).

Now if the convection fan shuts off the thermals are likely to trip cutting the auger off. The combustion fan should continue running and there should be no smoke getting into the house unless you are running an air sucker somewhere.

If the combustion fan shuts off first the vacuum switch should kill the auger and the convection fan should continue running however there is likely to be smoke in the house because there is still a burning fire in the fire pot and the smokes easiest way out is through air washes, the air intake, and even the hopper.

I don't suspect that the combustion fan is having any trouble with the vent even though it isn't the correct stuff.

But before continuing you need to have the proper vent in palace and make certain all instructions in the manual have been followed. Pay attention to all clearances.

I'm not saying there is or is not another problem with your stove, just that the t s need crossing and the i s need dotting first.

Please keep us updated.