Quad Santa Fe - How frequently you clean the burn pot to prevent smoke?

[geek]

Happened to me in the basement a few times now.
I don't clean the stove daily 'cause I set the stat to a temperature that the stove doesn't run all day. So the pot gets acumulation of ash and maybe creation of clinkers that maybe it doesn't allow for good fire at all.

Just now the basement got FULL of smoke and saw pellets smoldered in the pot unburned. When this happened before I let the stove cool down and then found a clinker at the bottom which seems like prevented the fire to develop well, but then LOT of smoke ...

Is this smoke coming from the bottom at the removable pan or what?

..

 

[tjnamtiw]

My guess is that your thermostat shut off the feed, as it should, but you accumulated too many pellets that couldn't burn off before the exhaust/combustion fan shut off because of the clinker or build up of ash slowed down the burn rate. No combustion fan = smoke. Assuming that the exhaust path is clear and the burn pot holes are clean, of course.

 

[FireintheHole]

My manual says to check the burn pot daily... and I do, mainly for air circulation and buildup. I'm sure all pellet stoves are pretty much the same
as they burn the same fuel and have the same air circulation requirements to burn the pellets. I would say just to do a daily check for any buildup in the burnpot as it is a key to a good burning stove. Clean as needed. I have a different stove but would say cleaning is uniform throughout.

 

[geek]

but since the stove cycles on/off do you guys lower the temp in the stat to make sure the stove won't turn on for a while and then do the cleaning?

Sometimes I head to the basement to check it but the stove is running, so I then head back upstairs and may forget to check it.

I guess I will try to have a routine.

I have people coming over to my house this evening and the smoke smell is strong..!! .....and I wanted to show off bragging I did the install myself....LOL
I will have to start sweeping the floor with one of those fragrant to "restore" the "good" smell.

..

 

[smalltown]

but since the stove cycles on/off do you guys lower the temp in the stat to make sure the stove won't turn on for a while and then do the cleaning?

Sometimes I head to the basement to check it but the stove is running, so I then head back upstairs and may forget to check it.

I guess I will try to have a routine.

I have people coming over to my house this evening and the smoke smell is strong..!! .....and I wanted to show off bragging I did the install myself....LOL
I will have to start sweeping the floor with one of those fragrant to "restore" the "good" smell.

..

geek I am running the Qaudrafire Castile. I took a look at the Santa Fe manual and they look very similar. I always turn my thermostat down to stop the stove and wait until it's cold to do my cleaning. I have never had any smoke in my home so I am wondering how you are smelling smoke. Are you opening the stove up before it cycles off and cools down?
I don't have a definite fixed routine other than mine has evolved to my observing the burn-pot for a lot of ash buildup. I can go longer than three days, but have found that while burning Maine Choice pellets my stove seems to run hotter if I clean my burn-pot every two days. Don't forget there are 4 small holes 2 each on either side of the igniter opening on the front bottom of the burn-pot that will take an inspection mirror to check. I do a full cleaning about every five days. Also once I start my cleaning I turn the thermostat up for just a moment and then off to start the exhaust fan going (I think it runs for about 15 minutes) to help remove any ash that might fly up as you are cleaning. That way it will get sucked out the exhaust and not drift into your room.
It's not right that you are smelling smoke. I wonder if you have a exhaust pipe leaking?

 

[geek]

it is due to the incomplete combustion because the pellets couldn't really light up or fire up because of the ash build up and/or clinker sitting at the bottom.......hence the smoke....you can see the smoldered pellets sitting on top of the ash in the burn pot.


Question, you said you turn up the stat just to get the blower going and ash flying will be sucked up, this is a good idea but when the stat calls for heat the start up cycle will initiate and pellets will start dropping in the burn pot, how do you prevent pellets from coming down then ?

 

[smalltown]

it is due to the incomplete combustion because the pellets couldn't really light up or fire up because of the ash build up and/or clinker sitting at the bottom.......hence the smoke....you can see the smoldered pellets sitting on top of the ash in the burn pot.


Question, you said you turn up the stat just to get the blower going and ash flying will be sucked up, this is a good idea but when the stat calls for heat the start up cycle will initiate and pellets will start dropping in the burn pot, how do you prevent pellets from coming down then ?

I turn the thermostat down all the way so my stove will stop feeding and go into shutdown. It will take a while to shutdown as the exhaust fan will continue to run I think for 15 minutes. Once the stove has cooled and you want to start cleaning turn the thermostat up to start the stove going (you will hear the exhaust fan start up) immediately turn the thermostat down. This will not feed pellets, but simply gets the exhaust fan going for another 15 minutes while you are cleaning. Do you have your owners manual and also the accompanying CD that should have come with your stove? If you don't have the owners manual they are available on line at Quadrafire. If you don't have the CD I'll see if I can copy mine that aslo has the Santa Fe and send it to you. I don't imagine Quadrafire would mind me copying a CD you should have anyway.

So if I am reading you correctly you have smoke coming out of the stove or piping without opening the door. If that is the case something is wrong. You shouldn't smell any smoke!
In any case it sure sounds like your stove needs a good cleaning. I'll bet the experts here would next ask the amount of pellets you have burned so far and how your exhaust piping is configured. And as macman would say pictures are great.

P.S. I found this in the Santa Fe owners manual is this what your experiencing?
"Smokey start-up or puffs of smoke from the air-wash.
5. Either the fire pot is dirty or there is too much fuel at
start-up and not enough air. Close down feed rate 1/4
inch at a time until this no longer happens"

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

If you have a straight out the back with no rise vent system and a still smoldering pellet pile when the exhaust fan shuts off the smoke can even come out the air intake let alone any air wash. It is all air pressure driven any thing that blocks one path causes the smoke to go another, any time the pressure in the room the stove is in is a slight bit lower than the exhaust exit the smoke (and all of the other nasties) will come out inside the room via another path if it can.

The reason those questions get asked is verify how close it is for a major stove cleaning.

Although some manuals don't tell you outright annual is roughly equal to burning one ton of a true premium pellets.

Your heat exchanger efficiency will drop a lot faster than that.

 

[geek]

it is a basement install, so goes up 6 feet and then out a coule feet.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Ah, but it wont do that if the flue is blocked at say the T or in the exhaust path before the combustion blower, or there isn't an OAK installed and the pressure in the room is less than that outside the house at the vent, or there is an air wash that uses room air.

Like if a sucker such as a non electric hot water heater or furnace kicks in.

 

[geek]

all in all I think is what I explained above, acumulation of ash and clinker blocking the ignitor somewhat and the combustion is incomplete. I just don't understand how the exhaust fan doesn't run all the way and get the smoke out the pipe, but instead seems like the smoke comes out where the heat is supposed to come out.

BTW- the pipe is clean, I used the leaf blower trick to clean, however didn't remove the tee cap behind the stove, all sealed...

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

And did you clean between the combustion blower and the heat exchanger?

The leaf blower trick is only good if the ash isn't really compacted. First you need to run a brush through the passages. Then the leaf blower can be used to get the loosened up stuff out. The longer the pipe between the blower and the ash the harder it will be for the blower to get the ash out if it isn't at least loosened up.

If the smoke is being drawn out the air intake it is likely right next to the convection air blowers intake and that will send it out the air vents.

In fact the convection blower can suck the smoke out under the right conditions.

You have to think like smoke and it will seek the easiest path to exit the stove, sometimes that is the air intake instead of the vent.

Now this still isn't getting to the primary problem which is the build up in the burn pot. Once again this is an airflow issue to a certain degree.

When your stove shuts down under thermostatic control the fire pot should be empty or at least have very little residue in it. If it isn't then the air to fuel ratio is out of adjustment. Once again this is affected by how clean the stove is, the draft setting, the fuel feed rate, and to some degree the fuel.

 

[Snowy Rivers]

Every so often my quad will drop a pellet or two out the feed chute after the fire is out but the pot is still somewhat HOT.

This will cause the pellet or two to lay in the pot and smolder a little and when the fans turn off it will at times leave a little odor in the house.

Its hard to stop this as the pellets can hang right on the edge of falling down the chute and the vibration of the convection fan will shake the stove just enough at times to cause the last couple pellets to fall.

Unless it is a real problem there is little that can be done.

Mide will do this a few times a season but it has never been a real problem.


Snowy

 

[geek]

thanks guys for the good info.

I should've mentioned how my stove is installed at first.

I'm using 3" piping and the OAK is installed.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Hopefully the OAK is installed with sealant and a good sturdy clamp and that stove wasn't one (several brands, don't know if quad was one) with "additional" air holes in the area closer to the stove and around where an OAK attaches that results in there still being an exit for smoke into the room, likewise it needs a sealed hopper system.

Then there is the ever present air wash system.

Basements are also the home for those lovely air suckers.

But to answer the question about how often you need to clean the burn pot, whenever there is build up in the pot that interferes with the air flow. That is why they say inspect it daily, hell, with some pellets that build up happens quicker than daily inspection will catch. Oh and there can be more build up in the burn pot area other than whats in the pot, most stoves have an air chamber that the pot sits in or over (there are even gaskets in some cases), ash can and does get into that area and the gasket can give out both of which lead to air flow problems and thus burn issues. In any event once again air flow is still the issue, if the air can't remove the ash you get the build up. The following links document wrkinonfire's Quadrafire issues with pileups, poor burns, etc ... .

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/51707/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/51866/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/51942/